Are rabies shots necessary?

[Kiujunn]

6 minutes ago, wandasloan said:

sight of anyone dying of rabies

In Thailand and the US, patients dying from rabies are sedated,  in ICU.

Nothing to see.

[dlclark97]

Some years ago I was scratched by a family pet, and it drew blood.  I was advised that because there is so much rabies in Thailand that I get the shots anyway.  Best to get the shots for any wounds caused by an animal here in Thailand.  Even for your pets,.  Rats, mice and other animal life that may be infected with rabies can leave the rabies virus on your animals feet/claws if they get in contact with them.  Better to be safe than sorry.  If the local wait is too long find a large hospital close by.  DO NOT wait any longer to get this done.  

[PPMMUU]

Dog vaccines do protect people.

But there's always a chance that the vaccine doesn't work in that dog.

Standard recommendation stands that you should get a course of rabies vaccine as soon as possible if your wound has blood (that the dog's saliva could come to contact with your blood vessel).

Don't forget that there is virtually no cure for rabies once the symptom has developed.

[Robin]

I was told when I had my Rabies vac. that it would not give me total immunity from Rabies if bitten by infected animal,  but just more time to get to a hospital to start a course of Rabies treatment  

From personal experience I was bitten by our cat, who had just missed his Rabies booster.  Didn't bother with my injection then, but got tetanus from local clinic.  They told me they were not allowed to give Rabies vac.   Also told to watch our cat.  If that got sick and died, take to body to vet or hospital for PM to see if cat died from Rabies.  If it had, then I would probably die also.

Despite what some Thais try to claim,  there is no medical history of any human surviving Rabies.  "If you get Rabies, you will die"  no doubts.

It is so cheap to get your animal  vaccinated against Rabies in Thailand, there is no excuse for taking any risk.

I have numerous cats, all kept vaccinated, and have been bitten often with no fatal effects.

Told that Rabies treatment, If you are known to have been bitten by infected animal is Horrible and very painful.  Injections directly into your stomach, and not always effective.

[Ombra]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:04 PM, scubascuba3 said:

tetanus about 80 baht, Rabies 4,000 baht for me 2019

In December, I went to Thap Sakae Hospital in the south of Prachuap KhiriKhan province, for rabies shots. I paid about 3,000 baht for the four plus a couple of hundred for the anti-tetanus shot. There was no waiting involved, though, because I didn't have to see a doctor. This common procedure was dealt with by a nurse.

[bwanajohn]

 

  The thing with rabies in humans is that the survival rate once you show symptoms is between zero and none,

last time I checked. I think there is only one person who may have survived.

 

 

[Gilltom]

On 5/10/2021 at 7:16 PM, internationalism said:

I had rabies at private hospital multiple times, around 300b. Need around 5 shots.

At the same time I was going for dressing wounds.

If the dogs are healthy within need future, you don't need full course. 

It will protect her for sometimes, maybe a year. So it's not completely wasted.

For 4k is a serum, at private can be around 16k (as some tourists reported after being bitten by monkeys).

Serum is given when very deep wound and close to head/neck area.

 

any vax is good now, will boost immune system against potential covid.

 

 

Jesus didn.t realise it was 5 shots .thought it was 2.must take a bigger stick when i go out .lots of soi dogs onmy rd

[wokkawombat]

In 2019 I was staying in Udon when the owners cute, friendly little dog latched onto my right thumb where it joins my hand. The owners told me the dog was vaccinated for Rabies. As I was flying back to Australia the next day I left treatment until I was home. The local doc had supplies of the shots required so I started a course of injections in a circle around the bite site with another different shot on the last day. The doc and the Australian health system took it very seriously and I noticed the shots are all listed on the my Govt health data base. The treatment was free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeffrey346]

A dog bit my son last month. We took him to the hospital where he received 2 shots. The hospital gave us a card that ststed what was done and told us to take him to any local clinic which we did.

I suggest you do the same.

[Kiujunn]

2 hours ago, Robin said:

Despite what some Thais try to claim,  there is no medical history of any human surviving Rabies

There is.

But it's more or less in single digits, worldwide.

So for all practical purposes,  you are right. 

[connda]

I've been called "anti-vaxx" but I'm anything but.  I weight the risks to benefits prior to considering a vaccination.
I work with animals a lot as I take care of temple dogs and our own pack of 7 dogs.  So I'm exposed to a lot of dogs (and cats) who come and go. 
However.  My own animals are fenced. If I was nipped by one of my own it would seem like no big deal.  But.  Our cats roam outside the fence.  And out cats interact with the dogs.  Plus the dogs interact with other dogs right though the fence.

Now, if nipped by a cat or dog outside of our house?
100%, I get vaccination boosters.
If nipped by my own?  All my animal have rabies vaccines, but??? 
It depends on the amount of risk you're willing to accept.
At the end of the day only you can answer that.

 

I get annual rabies vaccinations like my own animals.  The initial set of shots are 5 vaccinations (I believe).  The boosters are 3 a year.  Yeah, they smart a little, but like a previous poster noted, if you get rabies you're gonna die and not in a nice way.
So?  It's about Prophylaxis.   If you're concerned, then just get the shots.  Any government clinic can supply the shots and they are pretty much dirt cheap. 
Risk to benefit.
Low risk - peace of mind.

Edited May 12, 2021 by connda

[connda]

On 5/10/2021 at 5:51 PM, Smithson said:

In the past others copped a nip when separating the dogs and are still fine. Hospitals are somewhere I'd like to avoid at the moment. In our local one you wait hours sitting with sick people, then will have to come back for the shots again several times, each with a long wait.

Find a small private clinic, or, go to the emergency room of a small hospital during the weekend.  Generally small hospital ERs, like at the amphur level, are pretty empty on the weekends.  Too many people?  Go back later.  Yeah, I'd avoid large hospitals like the plague right now, pun intended.

[connda]

On 5/10/2021 at 5:51 PM, Smithson said:

We are looking for just a tetanus. Which I think will be enough.

Then you've already made up your mind.  Why bother with the question?

[connda]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:04 PM, scubascuba3 said:

tetanus about 80 baht, Rabies 4,000 baht for me 2019

It's about 500 THB at our local amphur hospital.  For a series?  3 to 5 shots: 1500 to 2500 THB total.  There is wide variations in pricing for rabies vaccines.  They are cheap as dirt to produce, so the profit (greed) incentive is high.  I'd stay away from private hospitals who tend to gouge on prices.

[connda]

23 hours ago, Smithson said:

Medical professionals say the shots aren't necessary. Do you have medical qualifications? Covid kills also, the risk of catching that in a crowded hospital are much, much higher than getting rabies off our own vaccinated dog.

Why did you start the topic? 

[Sheryl]

An alternative would be to have the dog's rabies antibody titer measured. Since the only possible risk would be if the vaccines received by the dog for some reason failed to confer immunity (unlikely if the dog was immunized multiple times by a reliable vet, but not 100% impossible).

 

It can take a week or more to get the results, but since your daughter will otherwise need a series of 5 shots, might be worth considering, as you can stop the series if/when  the titer comes back positive.

 

Upscale Vets can do this as can university animal hospitals. Your local vet can draw the specimen but would probably have to send to elsewhere for analysis.

 

Aside from the current situation it would be useful to know, for future reference, if your dogs have adequate titers. You might even like to have all of them tested. That way if any household members are bitten in future, you will  already know for sure that the dogs vaccines were effective.

 

 

[Smithson]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

Then you've already made up your mind.  Why bother with the question?

When I 'think' something it generally means I'm less than 100% sure, so it's good to ask others to help make a decision. Which I think is fairly normal, but I'm not sure.

 

Quote

Why did you start the topic? 

For advice.

 

In case I didn't make it clear yesterday, she had the shots after a clinic demanded it (even the vet said she should get them). I don't think they're necessary, but when so many medical ppl say they are well...

 

For those saying the shots can be had free at a local govt clinic, that's certainly not the case in Nakhon Nayok. Even large private clinics sent us to the hospital. It can be difficult to get accurate information here, if ppl are not 100% sure, pls state this when posting.

 

I remember reading of a govt push to reduce rabies cases, my guess is clinics don't want to deal with bites in case the patient refuses the shots and they are blamed, or something like that.

 

The jabs are B500 each in most places, if it's private then they can be more. You are given a booklet with dates for future shots. You then take that booklet to anywhere with the vaccine and they'll give you a jab. I know this because I've had them twice already. The price hasn't gone up in 12 years.

 

One thing some people missed is that I was weighing the risk of the dog having rabies with the risk of getting covid from the crowded hospital. In the end I drove 120km round trip, but wasn't among sick people for hours.

 

Quote

Aside from the current situation it would be useful to know, for future reference, if your dogs have adequate titers. You might even like to have all of them tested. That way if any household members are bitten in future, you will  already know for sure that the dogs vaccines were effective.

That's a good suggestion, but I think it wouldn't work. Our dogs were vaccinated 5 months ago, but even the vet said we should get the shots.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Smithson

[VocalNeal]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:04 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Rabies 4,000 baht for me 2019

 

Rabies shots are available at any decent clinic. In the 500Baht range. You need a course of X?

[scubascuba3]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

It's about 500 THB at our local amphur hospital.  For a series?  3 to 5 shots: 1500 to 2500 THB total.  There is wide variations in pricing for rabies vaccines.  They are cheap as dirt to produce, so the profit (greed) incentive is high.  I'd stay away from private hospitals who tend to gouge on prices.

I thought i was ripped off at Pattaya City Hospital, 3,000 baht for the initial injection, then a lady told me Bangkok Pattaya charged her 11,000+ for the rabies injection

[StevieAus]

I got bitten by one of my own dogs several years ago which had been vaccinated against rabies.

It seems to be standard practice here to give the rabies shot but you then have to have to have three or four follow up shots over a couple of months.

The same thing happened to my wife recently and the same process also gave her a shot of antibiotics.

Probably more chance of getting some other sort of bacterial infection as dogs mouths are not germ free.

Better to be on the safe side particularly in a tropical country where these sort of infections seem to develop quickly

[arick]

7 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

Free if Thai, mrs got bit before and it's classed as free emergency for the shots, she had to pay a couple of hundred for bandages

Free for us nasty white people also if they think your a good guy with a pool 

[Sheryl]

52 minutes ago, Smithson said:

 

That's a good suggestion, but I think it wouldn't work. Our dogs were vaccinated 5 months ago, but even the vet said we should get the shots.

 

if they had just the one shot 5 months ago then certainly, without question, your daughter (and anyone else who gets bit in future) needs the shots.

 

I was of the impression the dogs had been vaccinated several years in a row.  Although there should be immunity after the first vaccination, there is always small risk of an ineffective vaccine.

 

 

[Smithson]

48 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

The same thing happened to my wife recently and the same process also gave her a shot of antibiotics.

Probably more chance of getting some other sort of bacterial infection as dogs mouths are not germ free.

Better to be on the safe side particularly in a tropical country where these sort of infections seem to develop quickly

Our girl was also given anti-biotics, also not sure how necessary. It's good to err on the safe side, but anti-biotics also have a real downside. Besides two operations I haven't taken them for 12 years. Prior to this I was having tonsillitis several times annually, but in the last 12 years I haven't even had a cold. I avoid giving them to the kids and notice they get sick a lot less often than their peers.

 

If there's no sign of infection I'll stop the anti-biotics in a couple of days.

[Smithson]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

if they had just the one shot 5 months ago then certainly, without question, your daughter (and anyone else who gets bit in future) needs the shots.

 

I was of the impression the dogs had been vaccinated several years in a row.  Although there should be immunity after the first vaccination, there is always small risk of an ineffective vaccine.

 

 

The dogs in question are old enough to have had several shorts over past years.

[StevieAus]

23 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Our girl was also given anti-biotics, also not sure how necessary. It's good to err on the safe side, but anti-biotics also have a real downside. Besides two operations I haven't taken them for 12 years. Prior to this I was having tonsillitis several times annually, but in the last 12 years I haven't even had a cold. I avoid giving them to the kids and notice they get sick a lot less often than their peers.

 

If there's no sign of infection I'll stop the anti-biotics in a couple of days.

I agree it’s always a dilemma particularly when you read reports of resistance developing through over prescribing.

I suppose it’s a case of do I abstain and wait to see what happens or get in early.

Also now the view seems to be cease taking them when the problem ceases rather than finish the course as used to apply.

I suffered an accident at home last September resulting in multiple fractures to bones in my leg and foot with one bone protruding.

I was treated at a private hospital and had several operations.

The Orthopedic surgeon made it clear that infection was a serious risk with obvious consequences.

I was placed on intravenous antibiotics for quite a time followed by taking them orally until everything healed which was several weeks.

I know this is an extreme example but there was no way I was taking the chance of losing a foot

[Smithson]

Yes, the past two times I've taken them was without an infection, but I'd just had operations so I was definitely taking them. I've had some cuts on my leg get infected and doctors tell me to take anti-biotics. Instead I lie in an air con room with my leg raised for a few days. The air con really helps dry the wound out, it's interesting Thais talk about wounds 'drying' rather than 'healing', which shows how common infections are here. Also lots of them with scars on legs.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Smithson said:

The dogs in question are old enough to have had several shorts over past years.

I that case it would be well worth getting their titers checked. Even if you don't get the results in time to shorten your daughter's vaccination series by much, it will help for the next time.

 

Highly unlikely theywill nto have protective antibody titers...but good to be sure.

 

 

[Smithson]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I that case it would be well worth getting their titers checked. Even if you don't get the results in time to shorten your daughter's vaccination series by much, it will help for the next time.

 

Highly unlikely theywill nto have protective antibody titers...but good to be sure.

 

 

Thanks. How would I go about getting them checked and is it expensive?

[Sheryl]

Most private vets in Bangkok  can do it and so can University pet hospitals though I am  not sure the latter will do it on demand.

 

You could try contacting these folks  https://www.petrelocationthailand.com/service/ตรวจเลือดสัตว์เลี้ยง/ They mostly deal with people who need the test done at an EU approved lab which is  very costly (need to mail the specimen to Europe etc) so explain that it is not for relocation purposes and ask about local testing.

 

or

 

https://thonglorpet.com/en/service/13  As above, specify you need a quote for local testing not EU lab

 

or

 

https://www.psahospital.com/

 

 

 

You might also ask at the Parchinburi animal hospital since your daughter is apparently getting her vaccine in Prachinburi anyhow. That hospital is pretty good,  i use it myself for most things. They won't be able to do titer themselves but they may be able to send out for it.

 

[Sterling]

One of the most awarded comments on Reddit is excellent reading for anyone wanting to know more about rabies:

https://np.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/81rr6f/he_fed_the_cute_trash_panda_and_looked_up_for_a/dv4xyks/?contex=3

 

Excerpt:

Rabies. It's exceptionally common, but people just don't run into the animals that carry it often. Skunks especially, and bats.

Let me paint you a picture.

You go camping, and at midday you decide to take a nap in a nice little hammock. While sleeping, a tiny brown bat, in the "rage" stages of infection is fidgeting in broad daylight, uncomfortable, and thirsty (due to the hydrophobia) and you snort, startling him. He goes into attack mode.

Except you're asleep, and he's a little brown bat, so weighs around 6 grams. You don't even feel him land on your bare knee, and he starts to bite. His teeth are tiny. Hardly enough to even break the skin, but he does manage to give you the equivalent of a tiny scrape that goes completely unnoticed.

Rabies does not travel in your blood. In fact, a blood test won't even tell you if you've got it. (Antibody tests may be done, but are useless if you've ever been vaccinated.)

You wake up, none the wiser. If you notice anything at the bite site at all, you assume you just lightly scraped it on something.

The bomb has been lit, and your nervous system is the wick. The rabies will multiply along your nervous system, doing virtually no damage, and completely undetectable. You literally have NO symptoms.

It may be four days, it may be a year, but the camping trip is most likely long forgotten. Then one day your back starts to ache... Or maybe you get a slight headache?

At this point, you're already dead. There is no cure.

(The sole caveat to this is the Milwaukee Protocol, which leaves most patients dead anyway, and the survivors mentally disabled, and is seldom done - see below).

There's no treatment. It has a 100% kill rate.