Hoping to get some advice on our front door. We'd like wood, but our builder is recommending against that and wants to use UPVC

[gavin310]

We're currently building a house and I'm hoping to get some advice on the front door. I want a modern wood door like so many of the new modern houses in Thailand have. I've attached some examples of doors that I like. Ours would just have the door with a viewing window on the door, but no side windows.

 

We're using a UPVC door and window system for most of the doors and windows in the house, but the front door they offer is not what I want. I want the front door to be real wood or a wood pattern and a nice modern style. When I mentioned wanting a wood door, our builder advised against it due to warping and expansion from moisture. The land is only about 100 meters from the ocean and we live in Trat province, which is one of the two wettest provinces in Thailand (Rayong and Trat are the two wettest in the country). The front door will be under a ledge that comes out about 1.5m, so the door won't be directly exposed to the elements, but if there's strong wind with rain the door will almost certainly get wet.

 

I understand the concerns our builder has, but I was looking at homes for sales on Koh Samui and Phuket and so many of them have a wood front door just like what I want. So I'm wondering, how they can all have wood front doors if the issues with warping and expansion are a real concern?

 

From what I understand, with proper maintenance and care these issues aren't so bad with a wood door. But maybe due to living in such a rainy province and living near the ocean our situation is a bit different?

 

I tried finding UPVC doors that match the style I want in Thailand but have not had any luck. There are some that are very cheap (2-3k baht) that look nice, but those are not the strength and quality I want for a front door.

 

Sorry for writing so much here. I guess what I'm wondering is, are our builder's concerns about a wood door warping and expanding real enough that we should stop considering a wood door and just go with UPVC?

 

And also, I would love some recommendations for companies in Thailand that make either wood or UPVC doors that match the style I'm looking for.

 

Thanks!

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by gavin310

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, gavin310 said:

Sorry for writing so much here. I guess what I'm wondering is, are our builder's concerns about a wood door warping and expanding real enough that we should stop considering a wood door and just go with UPVC?

No they are not. A good quality door that has been correctly built and correctly fitted during the wetter part of the year will not bind,  it will shrink a bit during the dry/hot season but if it’s both well built and correctly fitted you will probably not notice that. Also since you are near the sea the humidity will probably not to drop as much as more central areas. 
 

If the door warps it’s either badly built or they did not use correctly seasoned wood, though it could be that they used a species that isn’t stable.

 

Rain will have little effect but high and low humidity over weeks will. The reason rain won’t do much is the finish you put on the door will make it shed the surface water. 
 

if you have to have the door fitted during the dry season be prepared to have it taken of for adjustment sometime in the first year. 

[gavin310]

12 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No they are not. A good quality door that has been correctly built and correctly fitted during the wetter part of the year will not bind,  it will shrink a bit during the dry/hot season but if it’s both well built and correctly fitted you will probably not notice that. Also since you are near the sea the humidity will probably not to drop as much as more central areas. 
 

If the door warps it’s either badly built or they did not use correctly seasoned wood, though it could be that they used a species that isn’t stable.

 

Rain will have little effect but high and low humidity over weeks will. The reason rain won’t do much is the finish you put on the door will make it shed the surface water. 
 

if you have to have the door fitted during the dry season be prepared to have it taken of for adjustment sometime in the first year. 

 

THANK YOU! This is really helpful. I guess the only issue I'll have is knowing which doors are well built. Do you happen to have any key points we should be sure to ask whichever company we talk to?

[Susco]

19 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If the door warps it’s either badly built or they did not use correctly seasoned wood, though it could be that they used a species that isn’t stable.

 

In my time here, I have then seen more badly built than correctly built doors.

 

How do you know if they used the correctly seasoned wood, I'm sure they not gonna tell you if not, and i doubt you can see it unless you are maybe an expert.

 

The pictures of the doors the OP posted, can be perfectly made in uPVC with wood grain cladding, and no risk of expanding or shrinking.

 

And just to add, wood is not maintenance free, especially not when near the sea

Edited May 13, 2021 by Susco

[RobMuir]

41 minutes ago, gavin310 said:

(Rayong and Trat are the two wettest in the country).

 

Rayong doesn't get much rain.

 

A wood door will work, expand and shrink a bit. UPVC won't have any issues.

[OneMoreFarang]

Recently I thought about doing some work with wood and I bought a book (not English) with lots of details.

Basically the first thing I learned is that solid wood can be real headache. Because it doesn't stay the way it is because of the temperature and moisture - like you know already. And it changes differently in different directions of the wood. The summary in that woodworker beginner's book was: Avoid solid wood.

Maybe you will find someone who knows what he is doing and you will get your perfect door. But it seems you need an expert and probably that door will be expensive. But just in case you didn't find that expert and maybe if you didn't buy the perfect door it will be headache.

So it seems you have the choice between finding an expert and the perfect wooden door or you chose another material and avoid all that possible headache. ???? 

[Simple Jack]

Go with the wood. No windows.  Unless metal gaurds behind it. Get some decent dead bolts & locks. Both vertical & horizontal. UPVC. Crowbar on the door runner.. Easy entry. You can literally lift them from the frame. Don't ask me how i know.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Simple Jack
Spelling

[Susco]

6 minutes ago, Simple Jack said:

Go with the wood. No windows.  Unless metal gaurds behind it. Get some decent dead bolts & locks. Both vertical & horizontal. UPVC. Crowbar on the door runner.. Easy entry. You can literally lift them from the frame. Don't ask me how i know.

 

 

 

I challenge you to come lift my uPVC doors with multi-lock system from the frame

[gavin310]

2 hours ago, RobMuir said:

 

Rayong doesn't get much rain.

 

A wood door will work, expand and shrink a bit. UPVC won't have any issues.

 

Oops, I meant Ranong! Thanks for catching that.

[gavin310]

2 hours ago, Susco said:

 

The pictures of the doors the OP posted, can be perfectly made in uPVC with wood grain cladding, and no risk of expanding or shrinking.

 

That's what I figured, but unfortunately I can't find anything in Thailand. My wife (Thai) is looking as well, but all we're finding is pretty generic looking stuff. I found some nice looking stuff, but judging from the price (around 2-3k baht) it's not going to be the quality we want. 

[Kwasaki]

I don't see any problems in having wood in and outside a house it just needs to be the right wood.

Our wood front double doors along with internal wood doors have just been maintenance by re-coating twice in 20 years.

Our all wood staircase, the wood upstairs polished floors have been no problem at all.

We have wood window frames all round ground floor and second floor.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, gavin310 said:

 

THANK YOU! This is really helpful. I guess the only issue I'll have is knowing which doors are well built. Do you happen to have any key points we should be sure to ask whichever company we talk to?

We went to wood street (Bang Pho) and ordered what we wanted because our door openings are large than normal at 2.2m x 1m so nobody has that size in stock. You can select the wood you want so you can have teak if you want to pay the price the door in the outside opening has not moved at all. We paid about 4K~6k per door. I can’t give an exact price as we also got a really nice set of old growth teak chairs made at the same time. 

[jak2002003]

Don't be scared of the wood for a door  we have a modern style teak one that was made to the dive we wanted. It's been good so far coming up to 7 years. 

 

When it was brand new it did get a crack due to warping a bit as it dried out. The guy who make it came back and did a very good job filling it and since then you cant see it's ever has a crack. 

 

It's in full sun all mornings, but rarely gets wet unless there is a very windy storm.  We just re trest it about once every year or so, re paint the black pattern inlay parts at the same time.  Lots of visitors comment on how nice it is. 

 

It is just wood though....so I can't comment about having glass windows in the doors. 

 

 

[timendres]

Friend installed Teak doors in the front of the house. Looks fabulous, no problems so far.

[lodstewart]

And when you put the coats of whatever your using on the timber door, remember to remove the door and coat the top and bottom edges as well as the rest.many people have a really good door warp because the under or bottom edge was left bare timber,

[canopy]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So it seems you have the choice between finding an expert and the perfect wooden door or you chose another material and avoid all that possible headache.

I think that's good advice. I have made quite a few doors, all of the doors on my house in Thailand. The norm I see in Thailand is doors and windows are made by carpenters that don't understand or care about expansion and just slap some wood together. In the dry season there are gaps to the outside and in the wet season they bind. Sad part is everyone from carpenter to home owner just blames it on the fact it is made out of wood. Not true! It's the carpenter's fault. The properties of wood have been well known for centuries. All a carpenter has to do is watch a youtube clip to get on board, but they can't be bothered with anything that delays them getting to the whiskey. So on it goes with the markets being flooded with error prone doors.

 

Properly engineered wood doors and windows account for shrinkage/expansion and work perfectly throughout the year. Some of the techniques fine wood workers use is to achieve this are floating panels, species of wood, grade of wood, and frame design.

 

An occasional pelting of rain won't warp a wood door that is properly finished. If it gets rained on continually or puddles of water form under it would be a concern. In extreme environments sometimes professionals glue sheets of veneer to each side to hold it dead straight. It's best to have a good overhang and good drainage.

 

I have used a uPVC door once, a pricier one from homepro with matching uPVC frame. A strong wind blew it once and it broke off the hinges. Only wood for me.

 

[itsari]

10 hours ago, gavin310 said:

 

THANK YOU! This is really helpful. I guess the only issue I'll have is knowing which doors are well built. Do you happen to have any key points we should be sure to ask whichever company we talk to?

Quality of the wood . Especially with the door frame . You can pay 1000 baht to 4000 baht for a door frame depending on the quality of the wood  . Termites will eat out the cheap frames .

[sometimewoodworker]

56 minutes ago, canopy said:

Properly engineered wood doors and windows account for shrinkage/expansion and work perfectly throughout the year. Some of the techniques fine wood workers use is to achieve this are floating panels, species of wood, grade of wood, and frame design.

Absolutely, here are some properly designed doors, non have warped or moved. 
 

the style you illustrate unless properly made will grow and shrink in hight as that’s the way wood moves also the sides may look good to you but are structurally difficult to make. 
Can they be well made? Yes. Easily? No. 
There are structural and wood movement reasons that doors have rails and styles 

[Susco]

9 hours ago, gavin310 said:

 

That's what I figured, but unfortunately I can't find anything in Thailand. My wife (Thai) is looking as well, but all we're finding is pretty generic looking stuff. I found some nice looking stuff, but judging from the price (around 2-3k baht) it's not going to be the quality we want. 

 

They will cost more than 2-3K, but are top quality

 

https://deceuninck.co.th/deceuninck-color-options/

[gavin310]

7 hours ago, Susco said:

 

They will cost more than 2-3K, but are top quality

 

https://deceuninck.co.th/deceuninck-color-options/

 

I actually checked out this company already, but the doors on their website weren't the style I wanted. But, I just went to their German website and they actually have modern looking doors in their gallery. We called the Thai number and I was fully expecting them to say they aren't available in Thailand, but we spoke to a person and they said they can custom make them! So we sent them what we're looking for and they're going to get back to us with a quote. Obviously it won't be cheap, but if it's the same quality as their standard front doors it might be worth it. Contrary to what some others have said, many of the UPVC door and window systems are very strong and secure. Nothing like the cheapo ones in Home Pro or Boonthavorn. Thank you so much for recommending this! Hopefully what they come back with isn't a complete shock...

[Susco]

2 hours ago, gavin310 said:

 

I actually checked out this company already, but the doors on their website weren't the style I wanted. But, I just went to their German website and they actually have modern looking doors in their gallery. We called the Thai number and I was fully expecting them to say they aren't available in Thailand, but we spoke to a person and they said they can custom make them! So we sent them what we're looking for and they're going to get back to us with a quote. Obviously it won't be cheap, but if it's the same quality as their standard front doors it might be worth it. Contrary to what some others have said, many of the UPVC door and window systems are very strong and secure. Nothing like the cheapo ones in Home Pro or Boonthavorn. Thank you so much for recommending this! Hopefully what they come back with isn't a complete shock...

 

My doors and windows are from Thyssen - Inoutic, that's why I knew they had them.

 

They don't produce in Asia as far as I know, but import from Europe, and that is also why you probably can get every that is on their European site.

 

They are actually a Belgian  company, Deceuninck, who bought the polymer division from Thyssen.