More Scientists Call For Investigation Of Virus Origins

[Pattaya Spotter]

Another Group of Scientists Calls for Further Inquiry Into Origins of the Coronavirus

 

A group of 18 scientists stated Thursday in a letter published in the journal Science that there is not enough evidence to decide whether a natural origin or an accidental laboratory leak caused the Covid-19 pandemic. They argued, as the U.S. government and other countries have, for a new investigation to explore where the virus came from.

 

https://nyti.ms/3y49gIR

Edited May 17, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[Jeffr2]

The estimates that it came from nature are greater than 95%.  Sure, a study would be great, but China won't let it happen.  They're trying to blame others for this. 

 

From that article:
 

Quote

 

Another signer, Sarah E. Cobey, an epidemiologist and evolutionary biologist at the University of Chicago, said, “I think it is more likely than not that SARS-CoV-2 emerged from an animal reservoir rather than a lab.”

 

She supports further investigation, but said that “there is more evidence (both genomic and historical precedent) that this was the result of zoonotic emergence rather than a laboratory accident.”

 

 

[gearbox]

"A group of 18 scientists stated Thursday in a letter published in the journal Science"

 

A group of 18 US scientists stated Thursday in a letter published in the journal Science - fixed it.

 

The Chinese are pushing their own conspiracy theory that the virus was man-made in Port Derrick, USA.  Would WHO and the Chinese be given full access there? Both of these theories don't have any backing evidence. In fact anyone can hypothesize and claim anything without evidence.

 

Suppose indeed that there was a lab leak somewhere. Then what? Are they going to shut down all the labs in the world? Or enforce new safety standards? The standards are already high, and most likely it would be a human error. Standards are designed to prevent human errors, but fail in this all the time.

 

 

[Kiujunn]

2 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The standards are already high

You probably have never seen these "standards", and I am talking about the  West.

Now, don't get me talking about Chinese "standards"

[Kiujunn]

Gain-of-Function-Research

 

You are a smart guy but ended up studying the common cold of some obscure animal in a remote corner of the world. For 20 years.

You will never get famous, no research grants, no Nobel prize, you publish in journals nobody reads. 

 

You manipulate these harmless germs that you study.  You find a way to make them transmissable to humans (by nature, they are not), and deadly (by nature, they are not). You warn the world of this grave danger that you just created.  

Now you can publish in "Nature" and "Science",  grants flow liberally, you get the Nobel prize for saving the world.

 

This is modern virology - in Italy, in the US, in China.

 

 

 

[cclub75]

22 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Suppose indeed that there was a lab leak somewhere. Then what? Are they going to shut down all the labs in the world? Or enforce new safety standards? The standards are already high, and most likely it would be a human error. Standards are designed to prevent human errors, but fail in this all the time.

 

 

It would change everything.

 

For what purposes this "virus" was kept in a lab ?

 

And then, next question :

 

Was it natural ? Or designed ? (we know that the Wuhan lab did "gain of functions" researches on viruses).

 

So the "leak hypothesis" is capital... Much more than the question of P4 safety (despite the security level, leaks in the past happened).

 

Because then behind, we would know for sure the origin (natural or artificial) of the virus.

 

Last point : if it was "artificial" then it opens another pandora box.... and a big one....

 

For what purpose ? To find "cures" ? Vaccines ? Or was it a bioweapon ?

[gearbox]

44 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

You probably have never seen these "standards", and I am talking about the  West.

Now, don't get me talking about Chinese "standards"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level

 

There are BSL-4 certified labs in many countries.

 

On top of that there are BSL-4 labs for "extraterrestrial"  samples.

 

In theory all BSL-4 labs would be uniformly compliant as they are certified with more or less the same standards. In practice their safety would vary from country to country and lab to lab, as the certification is one off event probably once per year, but the breaches of the certifications are continuous and can happen all the time, mainly due to human errors. However the results so far show the standards work.

Edited May 17, 2021 by gearbox

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

Gain-of-Function-Research

 

You are a smart guy but ended up studying the common cold of some obscure animal in a remote corner of the world. For 20 years.

You will never get famous, no research grants, no Nobel prize, you publish in journals nobody reads. 

 

You manipulate these harmless germs that you study.  You find a way to make them transmissable to humans (by nature, they are not), and deadly (by nature, they are not). You warn the world of this grave danger that you just created.  

Now you can publish in "Nature" and "Science",  grants flow liberally, you get the Nobel prize for saving the world.

 

This is modern virology - in Italy, in the US, in China.

Are you a virologist?  If not, what you posted is a personal opinion.  Nothing else.

[Jeffr2]

16 minutes ago, cclub75 said:

 

It would change everything.

 

For what purposes this "virus" was kept in a lab ?

 

And then, next question :

 

Was it natural ? Or designed ? (we know that the Wuhan lab did "gain of functions" researches on viruses).

 

So the "leak hypothesis" is capital... Much more than the question of P4 safety (despite the security level, leaks in the past happened).

 

Because then behind, we would know for sure the origin (natural or artificial) of the virus.

 

Last point : if it was "artificial" then it opens another pandora box.... and a big one....

 

For what purpose ? To find "cures" ? Vaccines ? Or was it a bioweapon ?

I'm sure many countries are modifying viruses to create weapons.  But the majority of scientific experts say the virus was NOT man made.  It'd be great if China allowed us in to find the exact source of this virus.  And how it jumped from an animal to a human.  Like has happened many times over the years.  Many.

[gearbox]

21 minutes ago, cclub75 said:

 

It would change everything.

 

For what purposes this "virus" was kept in a lab ?

 

And then, next question :

 

Was it natural ? Or designed ? (we know that the Wuhan lab did "gain of functions" researches on viruses).

 

So the "leak hypothesis" is capital... Much more than the question of P4 safety (despite the security level, leaks in the past happened).

 

Because then behind, we would know for sure the origin (natural or artificial) of the virus.

 

Last point : if it was "artificial" then it opens another pandora box.... and a big one....

 

For what purpose ? To find "cures" ? Vaccines ? Or was it a bioweapon ?

 

 

There are many deadly viruses kept in BSL-4 certified labs. That's why they are BSL-4!

 

The facts at the moment are "Wuhan lab without evidence" = "Port Derrick lab without evidence".  That's a deadlock. Both countries won't agree on weapons style inspections. However most of the world will benefit if weapons style inspections are done in both countries in all their labs, as it is _viable_ that both are developing biological weapons.

Edited May 17, 2021 by gearbox

[Kiujunn]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Are you a virologist?  If not, what you posted is a personal opinion.  Nothing else.

What I wrote is a simplified version of public knowledge about "gain of function research",  edited for the consumption of TVF members who may not have a background in science and research. 

 

Readers who know all this anyway will find my dribble boring, simplistic and repetitive.

 

Readers who have never heard of "gain of function" can Google it and find a lot of info, presented in much better style than I could ever do. 

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

What I wrote is a simplified version of public knowledge about "gain of function research",  edited for the consumption of TVF members who may not have a background in science and research. 

 

Readers who know all this anyway will find my dribble boring, simplistic and repetitive.

 

Readers who have never heard of "gain of function" can Google it and find a lot of info, presented in much better style than I could ever do. 

Ummm....you wrote a lot more than just "gain of function research".  You provided an OPINION on how research grants work, a conspiracy theory about warning the world of what was just created, getting a nobel price, etc.

 

Hardly how modern virology works.  Just your opinion.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Jeffr2

[Jeffr2]

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop

 

Why some labs work on making viruses deadlier — and why they should stop

 

The pandemic should make us question the value of gain-of-function research.

 

To be clear, the novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, is definitely not a biologically engineered pathogen. It was not released on purpose, and it is likely to have been the result of accidental transmission through human contact with wild animals, like almost all disease outbreaks in history have been.

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

What I wrote is a simplified version of public knowledge about "gain of function research",  edited for the consumption of TVF members who may not have a background in science and research. 

 

Readers who know all this anyway will find my dribble boring, simplistic and repetitive.

 

Readers who have never heard of "gain of function" can Google it and find a lot of info, presented in much better style than I could ever do. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gain_of_function_research

 

Gain of function research (GoFR) is a field of medical research focused on the serial passaging of microorganisms in vitro and in vivo. This places positive selective pressure on the microorganisms to effect mutations that would increase their pathogenicity, transmissibility, and antigenicity. These studies can also expand the host tropism of a pathogen to new host species or organ tissue. This research is intended to reveal targets to better predict emerging infectious diseases and to develop vaccines and therapeutics.

 

In virology, gain-of-function research is employed with the intention of better understanding current and future pandemics.^[1] In vaccine development, gain-of-function research is conducted in the hope of gaining a head start on a virus and being able to develop a vaccine or therapeutic before it emerges.^[1]

[zhounan]

There are thousands of serious professionals working on this around the world. People who are trying to untangle the knots, people who are asking questions, instead of the majority of people who simply wait, believe and obey.

 

Unfortunately, seems that in Thailand these kind of serious professionals are not here. Perhaps they do not have the courage to expose themselves (jail, sanctions, threats) or perhaps they are simply unable to reason and prefer to obey.

 

What is your opinion?

[Jeffr2]

13 minutes ago, zhounan said:

There are thousands of serious professionals working on this around the world. People who are trying to untangle the knots, people who are asking questions, instead of the majority of people who simply wait, believe and obey.

 

Unfortunately, seems that in Thailand these kind of serious professionals are not here. Perhaps they do not have the courage to expose themselves (jail, sanctions, threats) or perhaps they are simply unable to reason and prefer to obey.

 

What is your opinion?

There are some here who are very qualified.  Sadly, that doesn't apply to the politicians running the country.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/thai-scientists-catch-bats-to-trace-virus-origins-1.5063171?cache=

Thai scientists catch bats to trace virus origins

KANCHANABURI, THAILAND -- Researchers in Thailand have been trekking though the countryside to catch bats in their caves in an effort to trace the murky origins of the coronavirus.

 

Initial research has already pointed to bats as the source of the virus that has afflicted more than 20.5 million people and caused the deaths of over 748,000 worldwide, according to Johns Hopkins University data. The closest match to the coronavirus has been found in horseshoe bats in Yunnan in southern China.

 

Thailand has 19 species of horseshoe bats but researchers said they have not yet been tested for the new coronavirus.

[gearbox]

48 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Please.  The US scientists are not alone in their opinion.  I am not worried about USA conduct.  There is  civilian oversight and there are people who have moral belief. Nothing stays covered up for long in USA because someone will always blow whistle.  In China, it is coverup. that is the Asian way.  The USA  does not have the history of all of these deadly contagious diseases with coverup does it?  China has  a bad history for coverup. need a reminder of last pandemic? Look up China conduct during SARS crisis.

 

And if China was so concerned about helping and not coverup, why did China buy up PPE in EU, Canada, USA in months before it admitted to Wuhan virus crisis?  Why did China refuse to share genome and important data?

 

You want people to blindly believe one side which has a proven track record of developing biological weapons, including involuntary testing on its own people:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program

 

And yes, the truth will come out...50 years later when the documents are declassified. If people whistle there is a danger that they may end up eating borsh until the end of their life like Snowden.

 

And guess which country opposes site inspections:

 

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2001-09/press-releases/bwc-protocol-talks-geneva-collapse-following-us-rejection

 

https://www.nti.org/learn/countries/united-states/biological/

 

"Second, on-site inspections presented potential and opportunities for inspectors to steal intellectual property and conduct other industrial espionage on pharmaceutical and biotech companies. "

[Jeffr2]

41 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 

You want people to blindly believe one side which has a proven track record of developing biological weapons, including involuntary testing on its own people:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program

 

And yes, the truth will come out...50 years later when the documents are declassified. If people whistle there is a danger that they may end up eating borsh until the end of their life like Snowden.

 

And guess which country opposes site inspections:

 

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2001-09/press-releases/bwc-protocol-talks-geneva-collapse-following-us-rejection

 

https://www.nti.org/learn/countries/united-states/biological/

 

"Second, on-site inspections presented potential and opportunities for inspectors to steal intellectual property and conduct other industrial espionage on pharmaceutical and biotech companies. "

Understood, but that was some 80 years ago.  I'd still trust the US over China.  China has ZERO transparency.  At least the US has some.

[BananaBandit]

Do most scientists feel that gain of function research is worth the risk?

 

Do they feel there is enough supervision of these researchers?

 

If a western scientist voiced concerns about gain of function researchers coming from certain countries, would that be career suicide?

[JamesFi]

Despite all the investigations, I think that we will never know the whole truth...

Edited May 17, 2021 by JamesFi

[Thomas J]

Yep, coronavirus has been found in horseshoe bats. 

Now consider the bats have been on earth for hundreds if not thousands of years.  But suddenly in 2020, Bok-Wah the bat located in a cave 1,600 kilometers ( closest horseshoe bat cave) from Wuhan gets bored with life inside the cave and flies to Wuhan, where she is hungry so she bites a rabbit or some other animal.   Ver E Wong discovers the animal decides it would be delicious and decides to eat it but does not completely cook it and contracts Covid 19 and unknowingly passes it on to his fellow citizens of Wuhan. 

Now that certainly is a 95% probability versus the "just coincidental" that Wuhan is the home to a virology lab.  Also just a coincidence is that the lab was studying bat viruses.  Another just random event is that the Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli " nicknamed "the bat lady" was based in that Wuhan lab and has previously discovered dozens of deadly Sars - Like viruses.  

But I am sure you would agree that it is far far more likely that Bok-Wah the bat was responsible and that it is far fetched to believe that the virus not ever seen before in human history escaped from the Wuhan lab. 



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/