The naming of COVID variants invites another pandemic – of racism

[ozimoron]

Just now, Thomas J said:

 Does that make Pol Pot a better person than Stalin because he killed fewer people. 

Yes.

[Scott Tracy]

Is it not normally the 'media' that sensationalises things to sell space online and print? It seems to be easy enough to allocate the issue to where it was first detected and give it an easily memorable name.

In Vietnam, for example, there seems to be a variant which is a mix of 2 other variants. This is going to be alpha/delta, or Vietnam variant?

Singapore was extremely upset when some one lied and said there was a Singapore variant. 

 

One wonders why we just don't take ownership and not offence. The human race, constantly and consistently screws up, live with it. 

 

Why not call it what it is, B.1.1.7, or B.1.617.2 and be done with it? How many names does a thing have to have?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

Oh does Obama building the cages that supposedly he didn't use make him better. Now it is curios why Obama only as you said only had "rare" separations needed to have numerous cages built to house people.  Or could it be those caged were not as "rare" as you presume.

 

It's all about intent. Trump used the policy as a deterrent. Obama only separated children from their parents under extenuating circumstances. You don't seem willing to understand or appreciate the difference.

[Caldera]

Racism? Nonsense. 

[djayz]

9 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Nobody seemed to object when it was the UK variant. ????‍♂️

Some people are just born with inferiority complex problems, while others just get on with life and don't give a xxxx what it's called. 

[KhaoYai]

So banning foreigners from travelling on buses and visiting temples when they were already living in Thailand and therefore no more likley to be a problem than a Thai citizen was not racism but link the word 'Thai' with a variant and its racist?

[Neeranam]

9 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Racism in Thailand??? impossible.. all non Thais are aliens or farangs

Please explain this. Aliens are all non-Thais. This has nothing to do with race. 

 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

So banning foreigners from travelling on buses and visiting temples when they were already living in Thailand and therefore no more likley to be a problem than a Thai citizen was not racism but link the word 'Thai' with a variant and its racist?

Not racist at all. If they banned white people, that would have been racist. 

[Thomas J]

32 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It's all about intent. Trump used the policy as a deterrent. Obama only separated children from their parents under extenuating circumstances. You don't seem willing to understand or appreciate the difference.

I believe you are "reading" into things that fit your perspective.  The fact is these people came illegally.  The fact is that Obama and Bush both separated families and put people in cages.  The fact is that Obama built the cages and that was never an issue for the media.  The fact is that Obama irrespective of motive put people inside cages and there was never so much as even a mention of it.  

Neither you nor I know what Obama's or Trumps "motives" were.  I can assume one of Trump's motives in more strictly "enforcing" the law was to discourage illegals trying to gain entry.  If fewer came, fewer would have to be detained and fewer put into any kind of holding cell. 

Now here is the ridiculous part.  You seem and well as many others that somehow the USA should just accept in unlimited numbers each and every person who wants to gain entry.  If the same illegal took a flight from Mexico to any U.S. city and arrived and did not have the correct visa, passport, or was found to be attempting to gain entry to the USA illegally.  They would be immediately sent back.  However show up at the border and somehow the USA is not only to allow them in, but to house, feed, provide medical care, and legal assistance to them.  That person at the airport if they were found to be trying to gain admission to the USA illegally they could have a permanent barring from ever being admitted to the USA.

The fact is that the USA has only 4.2% of the worlds population but takes in 50% of the world's refugees but it does not get credit for that.  Japan one of the wealthiest countries in the world took in 1 last year. 

The reality is that every country has the right to and the obligation to its citizens first.  If the USA whether under Bush, Obama, Trump or Biden truly enforced its existing immigration laws there would not be the problems at the border today.  A person knowing that they could not gain entry or if successful if found out would be deported they would not come.  

 

Certainly it is only Trump and the USA that rightfully should receive criticism for its treatment of illegals.  Thailand is so much more humane. 

https://www.ucanews.com/news/caged-like-animals-inside-bangkoks-notorious-idc/87104#

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

The fact is that the USA has only 4.2% of the worlds population but takes in 50% of the world's refugees but it does not get credit for that.  Japan one of the wealthiest countries in the world took in 1 last year. 

Credit? I'd rather be Japanese any day of the week. 

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

We know exactly what their motives were.

It is so great you are clairvoyant and can determine someone's motives just by intuition.  Also please quote your source for no effort was made to reunite children or did you just use the GOOTA ( grabbed out of the air) method on that one too.  Show me the extensive efforts made by the Obama or Bush administrations to re-unite families or are those statistics just not available. 

Finally, here is a hint.  Don't break the law and you won't have trouble with the police.  Don't speed and you won't get a speeding ticket.  And most importantly, if you don't have a valid Visa and as a result don't attempt to enter the USA illegally, you won't be detained. 

The only thing being "more liberal" obtained was not human compassion it was more human misery as even more attempted the trip to the USA.  If strong actions dissuaded people from coming that actually was more humane. Finally, I might want to help out my neighbor by providing food, clothing and money.  That does not translate into because I want to help an invitation for him to live in my home.  If the USA truly wants to help others, the effort should be making those places a better spot to live not taking their residents and still leaving the rest. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Thomas J said:

It is so great you are clairvoyant

Literate was the word you were desperately groping for.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

And most importantly, if you don't have a valid Visa and as a result don't attempt to enter the USA illegally, you won't be detained.

 

So any cruelty and inhumanity is justified as a deterrent to breaking immigration laws?

[Thomas J]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Credit? I'd rather be Japanese any day of the week. 

Actually I agree with you.  Asians in the USA are the most law abiding, highest educated, least crime prone, most family oriented and the highest income group in the USA.  

All of which leads to why shouldn't the USA or any country for that matter select who they wish to invite to join their country not the other way around.  I for one would vote for far more Asians because they are additive to the country. 

[Bkk Brian]

51 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Not racist at all. If they banned white people, that would have been racist. 

You don't actually have to have a different skin colour, racism and racial prejudice is  "discrimination against individuals or groups based on beliefs about one's own racial superiority or the belief that race reflects inherent differences in attributes and capabilities"

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Literate was the word you were desperately groping for.

No not grasping at all and literate would certainly not be the word I would use for someone who believes they can ascertain someone's motives strictly by observing.  If Trump's motives were to discourage illegal immigration.  I say great.  I am all for immigration but even in the interest of fairness, why should the immigrant from Croatia, Peru, or Australia have to jump through extensive hoops to gain entry to the USA and go to the back of the line while the one from Mexico, and Central America gets in first merely because they can walk there. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Guangdong China has just locked down and cancelled flights out after discovering community transmission of the Indian, sorry Delta variant!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/01/china-locks-down-part-of-guangzhou-amid-outbreak-of-indian-covid-variant

[pseudorabies]

I think that Greece should file a formal letter of protest with the WHO regarding their use of the Greek alphabet in "naming" the different COVID-19 strains.  It's not fair that Greece is associated with ALL the strains especially when (some of) the countries the strain was first identified in take such offense with being associated with one.

 

Why not use the Chinese number system instead? ????

[ozimoron]

 

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Guangdong China has just locked down and cancelled flights out after discovering community transmission of the Indian, sorry Delta variant!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/01/china-locks-down-part-of-guangzhou-amid-outbreak-of-indian-covid-variant

 

There was no attempt to disparage a nation by deliberately misnaming the virus variant.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You don't actually have to have a different skin colour, racism and racial prejudice is  "discrimination against individuals or groups based on beliefs about one's own racial superiority or the belief that race reflects inherent differences in attributes and capabilities"

 You miss my point - I was replying to someone who said banning foreigners using buses was racist.

Obliviously it wasn't; a Thai looking person without a Thai ID would not be allowed on the bus, or a person not looking Thai(like me) would be allowed on the bus. Racism is when citizens of different colours are made st at the back of the bus, like in the USA when I was a kid. 

 

[Thomas J]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

So any cruelty and inhumanity is justified as a deterrent to breaking immigration laws?

Cruelty, 

Now tell me what is cruel. If someone is guilty of robbery, extortion, embezzlement, tax fraud, or murder putting them in prison is not cruel and used as a deterrent. 

These people were not beaten.  They were housed at government facilities.  They were fed, clothed, showered, given medical attention.  It is likely they were living a life far superior to what they left.  Now knowing that one will not gain entry is a deterrent.  Knowing that if caught you would be deported is a deterrent.  Knowing that you will only be temporally be detained in a government facility, then released to "show up for a court date later" is an encouragement. 

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Thomas J said:

Cruelty, 

Now tell me what is cruel. If someone is guilty of robbery, extortion, embezzlement, tax fraud, or murder putting them in prison is not cruel and used as a deterrent. 

These people were not beaten.  They were housed at government facilities.  They were fed, clothed, showered, given medical attention.  It is likely they were living a life far superior to what they left.  Now knowing that one will not gain entry is a deterrent.  Knowing that if caught you would be deported is a deterrent.  Knowing that you will only be temporally be detained in a government facility, then released to "show up for a court date later" is an encouragement. 

 

Separating children from their parents deliberately and permanently is not cruel?

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

 

There was no attempt to disparage a nation by deliberately misnaming the virus variant.

What?

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Actually I agree with you.  Asians in the USA are the most law abiding, highest educated, least crime prone, most family oriented and the highest income group in the USA.  

All of which leads to why shouldn't the USA or any country for that matter select who they wish to invite to join their country not the other way around.  I for one would vote for far more Asians because they are additive to the country. 

Are these Asians citizens?  

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

What?

I suspected as much.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 You miss my point - I was replying to someone who said banning foreigners using buses was racist.

Obliviously it wasn't; a Thai looking person without a Thai ID would not be allowed on the bus, or a person not looking Thai(like me) would be allowed on the bus. Racism is when citizens of different colours are made st at the back of the bus, like in the USA when I was a kid. 

 

I get your point but its still not about skin colour, you can be of the same looking nationality and still be racist to another, racism can include as I quoted:

 

"discrimination against individuals or groups based on beliefs about one's own racial superiority or the belief that race reflects inherent differences in attributes and capabilities"

 

 

[Thomas J]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Separating children from their parents deliberately and permanently is not cruel?

Quote your source on that.  Children were separated yes.  However I also don't know where you get that there was ever an intent to separate them permanently.  Also it is known that many children "separated"  were actually not the children of those that brought them.  Children were being rented knowing that having children with them enhanced their likelihood of gaining entrance to the USA.  When DNA tests were done to establish familial relationships there was a drop in the number of "families" coming to the USA.  Finally, many parents voluntarily separated from their children and they not the government made no attempt to reunite.  Those parent knew if reunited their children would likely have to return with them to their native countries.  If abandoned, they would be left to reside in the USA. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Thomas J

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I get your point but its still not about skin colour, you can be of the same looking nationality and still be racist to another, racism can include as I quoted:

 

"discrimination against individuals or groups based on beliefs about one's own racial superiority or the belief that race reflects inherent differences in attributes and capabilities"

 

 

You seem to be agreeing with me then disagreeing! 

Could you give me an example?

Discrimination is not racism. 

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Quote your source on that.  Children were separated yes.  However I also don't know where you get that there was ever an intent to separate them permanently.

Do you only read from the echo chamber? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/21/trump-separation-policy-545-children-parents-still-not-found

 

Almost all reported that immigration authorities failed to provide any explanation as to why they were being separated, where their family members were being sent, and if or how they would be reunited.

https://phr.org/our-work/resources/you-will-never-see-your-child-again-the-persistent-psychological-effects-of-family-separation/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/trump-official-family-separation-policy-rod-rosenstein

Edited June 1, 2021 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You seem to be agreeing with me then disagreeing! 

Could you give me an example?

Discrimination is not racism. 

mmmm maybe, racism is a fairly broad term and can include many things. My point is really that its not just about colour but of course can be also, if thats agreeing with you then great we're on the same page.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bkk Brian