Work permit questions

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

Dear all. I would like to ask here two questions that might have been discussed in the past. yet

the ever changing regulations keep it rellevant.

 

First, is it neccasary to have a work permit in case of trading stocks / managing investments on line?

say my bank is outside thailand, and i buy and sell there shares on regular basis while i am

a resident of thailand and stay in thailand - will that be considered WORK by the thai authorities, and

will require work permit?

 

second, what are the penalties for someone who got caught working in thailand without work permit?

will it be just deportation or also confiscation of his assets and profits made or presumed earned

while working without the work permit? say someone is making money online while staying in thailand

with visa but without the work permit - are the profits he earn while working in thailand without

work permit can be considered illegal, hence can be blocked or confiscated by the thai government

or even the foreign bank?

 

[ubonjoe]

You do not need a work permit to do trades of stocks and etc for yourself. 

If caught working it could be a fine, possible deportation and blacklisting

 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You do not need a work permit to do trades of stocks and etc for yourself. 

If caught working it could be a fine, possible deportation and blacklisting

 

are you sure about it? times are changing and i just heard a lawyer telling

that active trading requires work permit.

there is a difference between managing investments on line, and between more active trading, also the taxation is different.

this brings the question, in general, what happans to profits that are been made

in banks abroad while working in thailand on line - cometimes those profits can be huge

and banks might demand to pay taxes on them, but lack of WP might cause inability

to poy taxes on those profits, and risking even money laundry charges by a foreign bank.

[NCC1701A]

5 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

are you sure about it? times are changing and i just heard a lawyer telling

that active trading requires work permit.

the answer is always the same. just don't tell anyone. 

 

if you are day trading in your home that is a issue for taxation in your home country. 

 

no one will know. 

 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

are you sure about it? times are changing and i just heard a lawyer telling

that active trading requires work permit.

Yes am sure it is not needed unless working as broker doing trades for somebody else. Many people here manage their portfolios without a problem.

Maybe a lawyer looking for work or confusion with doing it for others.

6 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

this brings the question, in general, what happans to profits that are been made

in banks abroad while working in thailand on line - cometimes those profits can be huge

and banks might demand to pay taxes on them,

Banks do not enforce tax payments.  They have nothing to do with it. Only the revenue department is concerned with taxes.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

the answer is always the same. just don't tell anyone. 

 

if you are day trading in your home that is a issue for taxation in your home country. 

 

no one will know. 

 

that is not such a good solution, becuase banks around the world these days

want to know WHERE THE MONEY COME FROM and WHERE DO YOU PAY TAXES / resident.

SO IN case you made nice profits on the virtual world, you cannot say NO ONE WILL KNOW

that you made them without WP.

the whole world will know because your banks will know, and you might not be able

to have access to your money without showing tax payments to the country where

you resided while making this money, and you might not be able to pay those

taxes in thailand because, well, you did not have WP when you made them.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Banks do not enforce tax payments.  They have nothing to do with it.

yes banks do not enforce tax laws, but they might tell the customer to

show proof the account is declared and taxes paid in his country of residence, otherwise

they will close the account.

in many cases now, banks who suspect  that the money in the

account is not declared, will tell the customer they no longer want him, and here is

your money sir, in the form of a special cheque - not cash - and now go look

for a new bank, because many banks these days will want to see the same things: documents

from accountants and tax authorities that this money was declared and taxed, or

simply just refuse to get your money. heard many stories like that.

[ubonjoe]

31 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

yes banks do not enforce tax laws, but they might tell the customer to

show proof the account is declared and taxes paid in his country of residence, otherwise

they will close the account.

Not Thai banks. They only report and collect taxes on interest earned on a account.

Banks in other countries might require that.

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not Thai banks. They only report and collect taxes on interest earned on a account.

Banks in other countries might require that.

 

How does FATCA fit in to this?

 

Just yesterday I was "helping" Madam with a land deal (OK paying). SCB asked me to fill in a FATCA form, I told them I'm not American, it doesn't apply to me. They said just put your name, state "not American" and sign. Keeps the paperwork gods happy I suppose.

 

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Crossy said:

How does FATCA fit in to this?

That is different but as far as I know they do not do any reporting unless you have a lot of money in the bank ($150k I think).

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

15 minutes ago, Crossy said:

a FATCA form

FATCA is for americans, the rest of COED countries has similar forms.

all is coming soon to thailand, that will start to report account holders to their

citizenships countries, and even block or refuse sending money from banks.

all perfectly legal under the draconian global new mney laws.

it might create big problems for the unprepared.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is different but as far as I know they do not do any reporting unless you have a lot of money in the bank ($150k I think).

Thailand might start reporting soon, and the global standard is to report

any acount with more than 50K USD or with 20K USD addition over a year.

 

But the main problem is that banks and even bank branches can feel free to

give account holders all sorts of hastles and troubles based on the new regulations.

[Liverpool Lou]

Seems as though the OP doesn't want any answers that differ from what he is speculating may happen, regardless of the informed advice he has been given.   Perhaps he should just stop trading and his imagined problem is solved.

[Krabi King]

.... Scott Fitzgersld, then just get your WP.... 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

31 minutes ago, Krabi King said:

.... Scott Fitzgersld, then just get your WP.... 

not so easy to get WP without having to open a company, with three partners and 2 thai workers.

besides, there are tax issues. trading shares via WP might mean that i must pay 35% tax on all profits.

but if the trading investing while the bank accounts are outside of thailand, i might have to pay, legally, zero tax for thailand (as long as i do not transfer the profit to thailand in the same year they were made). i think it is a bit grey area of the law and just wondered if anyone here will know something (as regulations and laws around it change all the time).

[abrahamzvi]

On 6/3/2021 at 10:40 AM, ubonjoe said:

Yes am sure it is not needed unless working as broker doing trades for somebody else. Many people here manage their portfolios without a problem.

Maybe a lawyer looking for work or confusion with doing it for others.

Banks do not enforce tax payments.  They have nothing to do with it. Only the revenue department is concerned with taxes.

Depending on the country involved. You are correct in saying that Banks are not concerned with taxation, other than taxes on dividends, which are referred to as taxes at source. Depending on the nationality of the person involved and his declared residence, profits ,made on trading with stocks and the like may be taxed as part of the general income declared to be taxed. For residents in Thailand profits, including pensions, dividends and the like, are taxed if imported into Thailand during the tax year being declared and assessed. In other words, if the profits are made and imported into Thailand during 2020, which is now being declared and assessed, they are taxed. If made in 2019 and imported into Thailand in 2020, they are tax-exempt.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

For residents in Thailand profits, including pensions, dividends and the like, are taxed if imported into Thailand during the tax year being declared and assessed. In other words, if the profits are made and imported into Thailand during 2020, which is now being declared and assessed, they are taxed. If made in 2019 and imported into Thailand in 2020, they are tax-exempt.

You only pay taxes if you declare your income after getting a tax ID number. I am not aware of anybody that is declaring their pension payments. About the only people that declare their income is when it cuts the taxes in the home country.

[blackcab]

On 6/3/2021 at 10:31 AM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

...are you sure about it? times are changing and i just heard a lawyer telling

that active trading requires work permit.

 

The short answer is: Listen to @ubonjoe. You don't need a work permit to manage your own money. Even if you did, it would be almost impossible to obtain.

[abrahamzvi]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You only pay taxes if you declare your income after getting a tax ID number. I am not aware of anybody that is declaring their pension payments. About the only people that declare their income is when it cuts the taxes in the home country.

What people do or do not do is not the subject of my comments. I was just clarifying the legal situation.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

What people do or do not do is not the subject of my comments. I was just clarifying the legal situation.

I replied to keep people from panicking after reading your post.

There is also a lot factors that come into it as well. A lot depends upon a person's home country dual taxation treaty with Thailand.

[abrahamzvi]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:14 AM, ubonjoe said:

I replied to keep people from panicking after reading your post.

There is also a lot factors that come into it as well. A lot depends upon a person's home country dual taxation treaty with Thailand.

Absolutely correct remark. Thanks.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

4 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

Absolutely correct remark. Thanks.

and i would add that many rules and regulations are changing these days, gloablly and nationaly, that is why i asked my question.

there is a difference, also in taxation, between managing investments (holding them for longer periods of time) and active trading (selling and buying assets more frequently and licing on the profits). even TAT now mentioned new visa proposal for stock traders, with 17% tax if they reside in thailand. which means they start to look into this sort of income as taxed in thailand even if made in banks off shore.