Digital nomads to be allowed to work in Thailand without needing a work permit

[Rampant Rabbit]

5 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

Quite interesting logic. So...

 

WITHOUT a master's degree one has to earn at least THB80,000.

But WITH a master's degree one only is required to earn THB40,000.

What if one has TWO master degrees? Is that going to half the income requirement again, to only THB20,000 per month?

 

 

The  govt have all  passed their degrees in "bators" everyone of them.

[Disparate Dan]

16 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

That's fair. I don't blame them and would avoid taxes as well, if I could

I was a digital nomad before there was digital, having been on the move around the world for 30-odd years without paying income tax.

 

But like every other nomad I DO pay taxes – every time we buy something, fuel a car, etc. I accept that. Directly or otherwise, even if we rent we are contributing to local taxes too.

 

In return for not paying other taxes, I also accept I need to take care of myself – insurance, etc – and the state, wherever I am staying, ain't going to help me out.

 

As for the "masters degree", I think there may be crossed wires at TAT, where they believe an "MBA", which can so easily (if expensively) purchased for any Thai kid by any parent with the money, is actually some kind of real qualification.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Disparate Dan

[Captain Monday]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Most digital nomads I know are either high-school or college dropouts who are self taught coders and system builders. They started out making their own computers, designing games and web pages.  So none of them would qualify even though they make more than the needed income stream.

Why don't they get a degree online then? If you want to play Thailands game play by Thailands rules. 

Just by demanding $100,000 insurance ( a pittance ) shows how out of touch they are this proposal will fail, just like all the others mooted, mulled and forgotten. Why?, no path to residence and citizenship. 

 

 

Same thing happens with quite experienced pilots who try to get on with Major airlines in the US. About the only ones hiring now. Need the sheepskin to check a box for HR, they don't care what subject it is in.

So, you have been a corporate pilot in Dubai sixteen years, no internet over there? Bye...

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, realfunster said:

The rest of the world does not share your obsession with Masters’ degrees.

Didn't Bill Gates...Steve Jobs...and Mark Zuckerberg all drop out of college? I guess they could have never started their "digital nomad" start-ups in Thailand...just as well I guess as they never amounted to much.

[stretch5163]

24 minutes ago, DLock said:

 

 

Just leave them be. I know the crusty's of Thai Visa get all bent because these young people don't pay tax or have a WP, and are younger and better looking...but they are an asset to any country.

Curious to your point above saying they are an asset to any country.  Majority of these people have little money and bring relatively little to a country. They use the country for low cost of living and survivability, dont pay tax and generally i dont see that as an asset to any country. 

 

I doubt that many of these will be brining in the required $40,000.00 nevermid the $80,000.00 a year.

 

Maybe you could explain your reasoning ?

[aqua4]

Reminds me of this

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/04/01/government-seeking-millions-of-expats-to-live-in-thailand/

 

[treetops]

At least the news they are trying to legalise it by some means determines it's currently illegal.  If nothing else it'll put an end to all the debates where the wannabees insist they're doing nothing wrong.

[Disparate Dan]

3 minutes ago, treetops said:

At least the news they are trying to legalise it by some means determines it's currently illegal.  If nothing else it'll put an end to all the debates where the wannabees insist they're doing nothing wrong.

Mate, this is Thailand. Prostitution is 'illegal'. Until last week at least, getting a ride on Grab was 'illegal'. So what?

[James105]

17 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

That's fair. I don't blame them and would avoid taxes as well, if I could ????

 

In my specific case though, I pay a bunch of income tax in my home country already and would just prefer that Thailand didn't also try to take an additional slice. It's details like that that may end up making or breaking the popularity of the visa imo.

 

As do I, and it is expensive as its 20% corporation tax on all profit, plus personal income tax (another 20-40% after allowance) on top for anything I take from the company in salary/dividends.    The tax suggested above is a flat rate of 17% on income in Thailand which means there could be a big tax reduction.   If I removed my tax liability from the UK then in theory this would mean that I could open a LLC in the USA, pay myself from that company with profits made outside of Thailand, and then reduce the tax liability to virtually nothing.       But that sounds too good to be true so it probably is!  

[The Cipher]

12 minutes ago, Hyna said:

They will certainly try

 

I wouldn't be surprised. What government wouldn't? Lol.

 

But I'm slightly more optimistic than most that a workable immigration program of some type will eventually be implemented here. Thailand's population is set to peak in ~2030 after which it will decline.

 

They are going to have to address this somehow, and I expect that a realistic attempt at attracting skilled immigrants will be part of the strategy. Way more likely that it happens here than in other low-birth-rate Asian countries (except Singapore).

[RafPinto]

16 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

The  govt have all  passed their degrees in "bators" everyone of them.

To qualify for the ‘digital nomad visa’, applicants will need to have a minimum personal income (salary, investment income, etc.) of at least $80,000 per year for the past 2 years or $40,000 per year with a master’s degree or above/intellectual property ownership or have received Series A funding.

 

It looks to me that they speak about Dollar.

US

Canadian

AUS

????

[James105]

8 minutes ago, stretch5163 said:

Curious to your point above saying they are an asset to any country.  Majority of these people have little money and bring relatively little to a country. They use the country for low cost of living and survivability, dont pay tax and generally i dont see that as an asset to any country. 

 

I doubt that many of these will be brining in the required $40,000.00 nevermid the $80,000.00 a year.

 

Maybe you could explain your reasoning ?

 

If the rules for this visa means that someone needs to have $40k minimum, then everyone who qualifies will definitely be earning that.  The ones who do not will not get it and will have to continue to get by on tourist visas.  If they earn so little they probably would not have much of a tax liability in their home country anyway and they are effectively just backpackers with laptops.    They will have to spend some money here simply to survive so they are worth more than zero.  

[James105]

2 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

To qualify for the ‘digital nomad visa’, applicants will need to have a minimum personal income (salary, investment income, etc.) of at least $80,000 per year for the past 2 years or $40,000 per year with a master’s degree or above/intellectual property ownership or have received Series A funding.

 

It looks to me that they speak about Dollar.

US

Canadian

AUS

????

 

You can typically assume US dollar if not specified.    

[holy cow cm]

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

i have a Masters in Digital Nomads. 

 

My thesis paper subject was the mating habits of women on ThaiFriendly and Tinder. 

Life Experience Masters for the mating habits of women on ThaiFriendly and Tinder. This is surely a pounding "STROKE" of genius. 

[The Cipher]

3 minutes ago, James105 said:

If I removed my tax liability from the UK then in theory this would mean that I could open a LLC in the USA, pay myself from that company with profits made outside of Thailand, and then reduce the tax liability to virtually nothing.       But that sounds too good to be true so it probably is!  

 

The devil will certainly end up being in the details. Probably different depending on people's individual situations too.

 

For example, I don't intend to permanently relocate to Thailand, but would like to have the confidence (via legal status) to invest in building out more of a life here in a second/third-home sort of arrangement. Then could freely travel back and forth between <home countries> without hassle or worry.

 

I think lifestyles like this are likely to become more much more common in the future if remote work persists, and countries will probably end up putting their heads together and working out some sort of tax arrangement for remote workers. The global regulatory mood on corporate tax is changing too, so I'm guessing specifics like this are a long way from settled. ????‍♂️

[EricTh]

These digital nomads are already working illegally in Thailand so this new rule just make them legal but they must pay digital nomad visa fees instead.

Edited June 7, 2021 by EricTh

[EricTh]

6 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

To qualify for the ‘digital nomad visa’, applicants will need to have a minimum personal income (salary, investment income, etc.) of at least $80,000 per year for the past 2 years or $40,000 per year with a master’s degree or above/intellectual property ownership or have received Series A funding.

 

It looks to me that they speak about Dollar.

US

Canadian

AUS

????

 

If they have this type of income, they won't come to Thailand. Most are already working illegally in Thailand.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

43 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

WITHOUT a master's degree one has to earn at least THB80,000.

But WITH a master's degree one only is required to earn THB40,000.

 

The OP article appears to be talking about the income requirements in USD or something similar, not THB.... Big difference!

 

"applicants will need to have a minimum personal income (salary, investment income, etc.) of at least $80,000 per year for the past 2 years or $40,000 per year with a master’s degree"

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[The Cipher]

Quote

I doubt that many of these will be bringing in the required $40,000.00 nevermind the $80,000.00 a year.

 

I kind of like these requirements. Helps weed out the riffraff ????????

 

[friendofthai]

Don't be too pessimistic. Maybe they are just trying to start investigating the problem and need some "volunteers" to get some live experience with "digital nomads". So we will see a mature solution in 2 or 3 years.

[DLock]

46 minutes ago, stretch5163 said:

Curious to your point above saying they are an asset to any country.  Majority of these people have little money and bring relatively little to a country. They use the country for low cost of living and survivability, dont pay tax and generally i dont see that as an asset to any country. 

 

I doubt that many of these will be brining in the required $40,000.00 nevermid the $80,000.00 a year.

 

Maybe you could explain your reasoning ?

 

Fair enough. When I say assets, it means they pay VAT, rent rooms, buy food, drinks and use transport - that is a money making asset in it's simplest form.

 

But there are dozens of great digital content creators, like Chad from CB Media (below) who creates really unique content that is an asset to Thailand. He has 325,000 subscribers and can also be considered an asset to Thailand.

 

Assets like this, moving to Laos or Vietnam would be a loss.

 

 

 

[simon43]

As other posts have commented, why on earth should DMs even consider this proposal, when they seem to have few problems working in the grey area of regulations right now?

 

As for me, I qualify with with my MSc and online income etc, but I gave up on Thailand several years ago, mainly due to the flip-flopping of regulations, xenophobia etc.  I moved to work online from Laos - best decision that I've ever made, as far as choosing a country to base myself in ????

[daveAustin]

How can they get EVERYTHING so wrong every time? Most digital nomads are copywriters, wannabe coders and folk dabbling in crypto trading doing it as an aside from their normal job. They might capture 1% with those daft requirements. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by daveAustin

[Mr Meeseeks]

5 minutes ago, DLock said:

Fair enough. When I say assets, it means they pay VAT, rent rooms, buy food, drinks and use transport - that is a money making asset in it's simplest form.

 

But there are dozens of great digital content creators, like Chad from CB Media (below) who creates really unique content that is an asset to Thailand. He has 325,000 subscribers and can also be considered an asset to Thailand.

I pay VAT, rent rooms, buy food, drinks and use transport, yet I have to pay 35% personal income tax, jump through hoops to get a work permit, renew my pr every 5 years, submit tax returns etc. 

 

I employ around 3,500 local Thais, and have enabled the transfer of knowledge and skills to the local Thai workforce, so arguably more of an asset than a YouTuber.

 

So tell me again why I have to pay more tax than he does? 

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, DLock said:

What we have here is a clear lack of understanding of what a digital nomad is, and why they chose to work from Thailand in the first place.

 

Good thinking, but as most things in Thailand...poorly executed.

I get confused sometimes

 

[DLock]

8 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I pay VAT, rent rooms, buy food, drinks and use transport, yet I have to pay 35% personal income tax, jump through hoops to get a work permit, renew my pr every 5 years, submit tax returns etc. 

 

I employ around 3,500 local Thais, and have enabled the transfer of knowledge and skills to the local Thai workforce, so arguably more of an asset than a YouTuber.

 

So tell me again why I have to pay more tax than he does? 

 

"...more of an asset"?

 

I didn't realize that this was competition over who was the biggest asset to Thailand. 

 

Your choices and flow on "penalties" should not be a basis to penalize people with a different vision on life.

[thanaka]

1 hour ago, Captain Monday said:

Why don't they get a degree online then? If you want to play Thailands game play by Thailands rules. 

Just by demanding $100,000 insurance ( a pittance ) shows how out of touch they are this proposal will fail, just like all the others mooted, mulled and forgotten. Why?, no path to residence and citizenship. 

Thinking any insurance with less than 100k coverage would be sufficient enough shows how out of touch you are

 

I'm happy about the proposal. It's a step in the right direction. I've seen a similar proposal with 30k USD income a year. Make it somewhere between 30k and 50k and I think that will be completely fair

Edited June 7, 2021 by thanaka

[Ventenio]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

To qualify for the ‘digital nomad visa’, applicants will need to have a minimum personal income (salary, investment income, etc.) of at least $80,000 per year for the past 2 years or $40,000 per year with a master’s degree or above/intellectual property ownership or have received Series A funding.

 

They will also need 5 years working experience and have health insurance $100,000 or more of medical expenses. 

When I go to Chiang Mai, I see soooo many digital nomads.  Hold on, I see some now with their cameras and youtube.....

 

How much do you make in a year?             About 100,000 baht.   

100,000 dollars?                                                No, 100,000 baht.  From my parents

Do you have a master's degree?                  I am a master.....bater.   and youtuber

Do you have 5 years experience?                In eating 20 baht noodle soup, yes

 

 

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, realfunster said:

 

Good grief, time to catch up with the 21st century Thailand !

 

The rest of the world does not share your obsession with Masters’ degrees.

They might be seen as valuable in a Thai context, as the general education system is so poor. 

 

Some of the most ineffective and clueless people I have ever met have been Thai academics. I recall one individual who did a training for my company who was a Dr.Dr.Dr Professor BA.BSC.Dr (or something similarly ridiculous- which filled the lower half of his opening PowerPoint slide).

This ‘status arrogance’ didn’t go down well with the assembled crowd and when asked even simple questions on putting his academic theories into place in a real business environment he couldn’t formulate a sensible or coherent reply. OurThai colleagues that invited him were embarrassed and apologetic. He never got invited back.

 

Quite right. I have no degree (though I suspect my GCSE qualifacations equate to a Thai degree) but I have 30+ years experience which seems to matter to most head-hunters!!

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Chelseafan

[Boomer6969]

3 hours ago, Pottinger said:

Welcome all fifty-three people who qualify under this fantasy scheme.

Making less than 80 000 when you work in IT is kinda rare, at least it was so when I retired 7 years ago. 100000 health insurance is peanuts.

 

What urinates me off is that, in all this talk about attracting foreigners, there is nothing for those who take care of Thai families.. We are probably seen as barely tolerated sinners. Ridiculous situation as my pension is over those 80 grands, I have "invested" (in my wife's name) well over 250000 USD, but I'll keep taking pictures in our bedroom for extending my stay.