US Permanent Address Now Needed

[racyrick]

I just received an email from my bank in the US that I now need a permanent US address for my account or it will be closed in 60 days.

The bank is Wells Fargo. This is my life blood for all my banking needs and most importantly my monthly transfers to Thailand to satisfy the one year renewal with Immigration.

Anybody have any advice or any experience with taking care of this requirement?

Do you know if they just require an address or if you change your address, do they require a copy of your US driver's license, a copy of a utility bill etc. or make you go to a banking branch personally?

I am very concerned. Thank you in advance!!

[dwagner]

When did you switch your address with Wells Fargo to Thailand? The US Patriot Act makes USA banks insure all customers are US citizens with a US address.

 

The best thing to do is use a relative's or friend's address in the US - Wells Fargo will accept that. Most banks only go through the arduous task of proving who you are on account setup.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I had a similar experience a few years ago with my US stockbroker, although my account was not closed, just restricted. The only checking account I had was with the broker, and to this day I am not able to deposit funds from external sources or use a debit card or checks. I also have restrictions on the brokerage account and can only sell securities, not buy them. Funds can only be transferred out by phoning the broker.

 

When this issue arose, I started looking for a way to open a checking account while here in Thailand. At the time (2018) TD bank would open an account while I was overseas. I don't recall the details, but the process could be started by phoning them.  Citibank will also do this, but will require a minimum $50k balance across checking and investment accounts. Neither required me to physically present at a branch. I did not pursue either option.

 

When I accompanied my daughter to start university the US later that year, I went with her to the local Chase bank to help her open an account. I also managed to open an account in my name using my Thai address. Chase did require me to provide them with a copy of a bank statement showing my Thai address. I used a copy of the US brokerage account statement for that, so I don't know if a copy of a Thai bank statement would have worked.  Chase then sent my debit card and a box of checks directly to me here in Bangkok by courier. My Thai address is even printed on the checks. The only 2FA I've had to use has been via email, so no issue with having a US phone number. I'm sure this only worked because I was physically in their office with my passport in hand.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

If you need to open a new account in the US see here for info about opening one at the State Department Federal Credit Union. https://www.americansabroad.org/sdfcu-account/

[racyrick]

48 minutes ago, dwagner said:

When did you switch your address with Wells Fargo to Thailand? The US Patriot Act makes USA banks insure all customers are US citizens with a US address.

 

The best thing to do is use a relative's or friend's address in the US - Wells Fargo will accept that. Most banks only go through the arduous task of proving who you are on account setup.

Thanks for your reply. I switched my address about 10 years ago and about 3 years after I moved here because I needed a new debit card sent to me.

 

I can use my brother's address but like I said, if they ask for further proof like a copy of my driver's license. utility bill, etc. I can't do that. Do you know for a fact they will not ask for additional proof? Thanks again

[racyrick]

28 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you need to open a new account in the US see here for info about opening one at the State Department Federal Credit Union. https://www.americansabroad.org/sdfcu-account/

Thanks UbonJoe. I will investigate. I do have one other question for you.

 

For people who are getting their social security sent directly to their THAILAND Bangkok Bank account and NOT thru the New York Branch, is it coded as an FTT Foreign transfer? If not, what is the code and does Immigration accept that as a foreign transfer? Thanks again

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, racyrick said:

For people who are getting their social security sent directly to their THAILAND Bangkok Bank account and NOT thru the New York Branch, is it coded as an FTT Foreign transfer? If not, what is the code and does Immigration accept that as a foreign transfer?

Transfers from a bank outside the country are coded as FTT if it is sent directly to them without a intermediary bank here being used.

If you have your SSA payments sent by using IDP (international direct deposit) they will not show the FTT code since go through the Bank Of Thailand due to them being sent as baht.

[mtls2005]

Without very much detail, and assuming you have on-line access to your account, simply log-in and change your address to you brother's address.

 

 

[racyrick]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Transfers from a bank outside the country are coded as FTT if it is sent directly to them without a intermediary bank here being used.

If you have your SSA payments sent by using IDP (international direct deposit) they will not show the FTT code since go through the Bank Of Thailand due to them being sent as baht.

Thanks again, but lastly, does that mean that Immigration will not accept that as a monthly foreign transfer and reject it?

[racyrick]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Without very much detail, and assuming you have on-line access to your account, simply log-in and change your address to you brother's address.

 

 

That is exactly what I plan to do after my next monthly transfer on July 9th, but I want to know my options and all scenarios in advance just in case I have a problem. Thanks for your suggestion.

[Why Me]

5 hours ago, racyrick said:

I can use my brother's address but like I said, if they ask for further proof like a copy of my driver's license. utility bill, etc. I can't do that. Do you know for a fact they will not ask for additional proof?

I use my brother's address for my Fidelity ac. I just filled it in online and they've never asked additional proof though reps have sniffed at it when I called. I tell them I like to spend part-year here in Thailand, rent from my brother when I am back and own little by way of assets. Which is all perfectly legitimate for a US resident (though not necessarily true).  There is no reason why a resident can't choose to travel the world most of the year.

 

(Btw, being away more than 330 days qualifies as non-resident for income tax purposes but that has to do with foreign-earned income.)

 

Btw, my credit union in MI seems perfectly happy with my Thai address. Might be worth checking if they are under different regs from banks and open an ac. at one.

[skatewash]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If you need to open a new account in the US see here for info about opening one at the State Department Federal Credit Union. https://www.americansabroad.org/sdfcu-account/

Oddly State Department Federal Credit Union refused to open a checking account for me online using my US Commercial Mail Receiving Agency address (a CMRA called TravelingMailbox.com that I've had for eight years) and then when that was unsuccessful I tried using my actual Thai address.  They were very unpleasant to deal with.  Wanted evidence I lived at that US CMRA address.  Nor did they apparently believe I lived at my Thai address.

On the other hand, Charles Schwab opened both a checking account and a brokerage account for me online using my US CMRA address.   They were no problem at all to deal with.

I have opened several credit card accounts online with CapitalOne using my US CMRA address with no problem.  I have the credit cards mailed by CapitalOne to my US CMRA address and I have them forwarded to me in Thailand by First Class US mail.  Never a problem doing that.

On the other hand I have had many online credit card offers rejected because my application was suspicious.  They contacted me, I responded, and somehow I was suspicious and my application was possibly fraudulent.  Although they never give a reason maybe they don't like that I applied with a US CMRA address.

In all cases I have used the same US CMRA address.  I interacted with all of these online from Thailand using a VPN connected to the US.

The lessons I've learned through this is that Charles Schwab and CapitalOne didn't check whether my US CMRA address was residential (it's not, no CMRA address is) or didn't care that it wasn't.  State Department Federal Credit Union did check whether my US CMRA address was residential and didn't like that it wasn't, and they didn't like my Thai address which is residential and where I do live full-time for the last seven years.  Companies that offer credit cards online apparently also see that my US CMRA address is not residential and reject my applications in response to their offer as being possibly fraudulent.

Bottom line, some seem to care and some don't.  

Not a single one of my US financial institutions at which I have an account know that I live outside the US in Thailand.  I make an effort to make sure to keep it that way.
 

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, skatewash said:

Oddly State Department Federal Credit Union refused to open a checking account for me online using my US Commercial Mail Receiving Agency address (a CMRA called TravelingMailbox.com that I've had for eight years) and then when that was unsuccessful I tried using my actual Thai address.  They were very unpleasant to deal with.  Wanted evidence I lived at that US CMRA address.  Nor did they apparently believe I lived at my Thai address.

On the other hand, Charles Schwab opened both a checking account and a brokerage account for me online using my US CMRA address.   They were no problem at all to deal with.

I have opened several credit card accounts online with CapitalOne using my US CMRA address with no problem.  I have the credit cards mailed by CapitalOne to my US CMRA address and I have them forwarded to me in Thailand by First Class US mail.  Never a problem doing that.

On the other hand I have had many online credit card offers rejected because my application was suspicious.  They contacted me, I responded, and somehow I was suspicious and my application was possibly fraudulent.  Although they never give a reason maybe they don't like that I applied with a US CMRA address.

In all cases I have used the same US CMRA address.  I interacted with all of these online from Thailand using a VPN connected to the US.

The lessons I've learned through this is that Charles Schwab and CapitalOne didn't check whether my US CMRA address was residential (it's not, no CMRA address is) or didn't care that it wasn't.  State Department Federal Credit Union did check whether my US CMRA address was residential and didn't like that it wasn't, and they didn't like my Thai address which is residential and where I do live full-time for the last seven years.  Companies that offer credit cards online apparently also see that my US CMRA address is not residential and reject my applications in response to their offer as being possibly fraudulent.

Bottom line, some seem to care and some don't.  

Not a single one of my US financial institutions at which I have an account know that I live outside the US in Thailand.  I make an effort to make sure to keep it that way.
 

You are right that some do, and some don't seem to care at least for now.

 

But it's a creeping issue which sooner or later will catch up with everyone.

 

The banks'  software are becoming increasing good at detecting CMRA and VOIP phone numbers, which is another issue since text authentication becomes more prevalent for transactions.

 

You can dick around trying various mail forwarding companies, but at the end of the day you will need to use, if you don't have a home in the US, a family member or friends address in order to satisfy the physical address requirement.

 

As for getting around the phone issue, lots of threads on that thorny issue too 

Edited June 22, 2021 by GinBoy2

[mtls2005]

11 hours ago, Why Me said:

Btw, my credit union in MI seems perfectly happy with my Thai address.

 

Everyone is happy, until they aren't. So state or federal law changes, a compliance officer flags foreign addresses, then wham, you're like the OP. That said CUs are generally extremely pro-consumer so tolerate all sorts odd happenings, again, until they don't.

 

Being abe to use an address, especially of a trusted familiy member, is ideal, again, until it isn't. State and local tax authorities start sniffing, jury duty summons show up, transfer to Thailand start to be questitoned. Some states do cater to snowbirds, domestic or international, and their migration patterns. More generic mail options usually work for most, with or without forwarding. I used a UPS Store box (Apartment 163) for ~ 8 years without issue, OK an issue with jury duty, and an annual claim from the State Tax authority.

 

 

 

[walt1]

My SS payment is direct deposit with Bangkok Bank Thru Bahtnet and coded BTN and is accepted by the local IO. Oddly the transfers coded FTT that I made do not qualify for the marriage extension.

[racyrick]

4 hours ago, walt1 said:

My SS payment is direct deposit with Bangkok Bank Thru Bahtnet and coded BTN and is accepted by the local IO. Oddly the transfers coded FTT that I made do not qualify for the marriage extension.

I assume the monthly payment is going directly to your Thailand Bangkok Bank and NOT thru the New York branch, correct?

[frantick]

Before I moved to Thailand I changed my US address from MN to SD using the phone app for Wells Fargo. No verification required that I remember.

[ColeBOzbourne]

Before moving to Thailand, I lived for two years in a small motorhome in the US. I had a mailing address but no permanent address because I just parked here and there and wherever I wanted. I quickly became aware that banking institutions, credit card companies, police, etc., really do not like that. Never had a serious problem, but a bit of a hassle now and then.

[walt1]

I'm not really sure but think it is deposited in Thailand not via NY branch. The conversion is made before it gets to BB as the exchange rate seems better than their posted rate. As long as it shows up I'm happy.

[NancyL]

We set up a CMRA address before moving to Thailand and also a MagicJack phone number with the same area code as the CMRA.  It is accepted by our U.S. credit union.  We also got the credit union to up the credit limit on our visa card and applied for an American Express card, using this address before we left.  It's a small, but well-run credit union that serves the employees and retirees of the headquarters of a Fortune 50 company, so they're used to having members all over the world.

 

We'd been using this address with Ameriprise, who manages our retirement accounts but a few years ago they said we couldn't continue as a customer because we lived overseas.  The work-around was to appoint a durable power of attorney and turn everything over to him.  We'd kept in touch with our U.S. attorney and he agreed to take on this task.  Now when we have the semi-annual video calls with the Ameriprise people, the attorney is part of the calls.  He always keeps his video off, mutes his mic.  He says he doesn't care about our finances and never bills us for his time, even though, technically, he could clean us out.

 

 

[bendejo]

For app. 15 years I used Earth Class Mail.  I had an account with Citi, and a few credit cards.  I moved around a lot and did not have any foreign addresses.

In all that time I did not have any accounts with non-US financial institutions, nor did I ever get anything other than a ordinary tourist visa in any country (opting for a run to the border vs immigration dept red tape*).  I managed to get by without hassle regarding not being in the US, even had two occasions that involved interacting with the IRS (which were legit misunderstandings).  I never saw the CMRA acronym before this thread, but I detected that post 9/11 there was suddenly an awareness of what was not a "real" postal address; for years I had a one-man consultancy with a private mailbox company address, never had the issue come up.  I can't recall the details, but at one point ECM needed a certified document and I had to hunt down the Malaysian equivalent of a notary public.

I just realized your 60 day deadline expired, I hope things worked out. 

 

* Argentina will issue an effortless 3 month visa to a US passport upon entry, but extending that, well, it'll take a lot of days in Buenos Aires waking up at 5am to get downtown to take a place in line, and hopefully you will get to the counter by closing time.  Malaysia also did the effortless 3 months at the border for US, but once for the heck of it I went to check out a visa extension: they wanted local references, bank guarantees, probably more but I didn't read the last four pages -- a day trip to Sadao or a cheap AirAsia holiday in Indonesia much easier. 

 

 

[racyrick]

On 9/13/2021 at 3:28 AM, bendejo said:

For app. 15 years I used Earth Class Mail.  I had an account with Citi, and a few credit cards.  I moved around a lot and did not have any foreign addresses.

In all that time I did not have any accounts with non-US financial institutions, nor did I ever get anything other than a ordinary tourist visa in any country (opting for a run to the border vs immigration dept red tape*).  I managed to get by without hassle regarding not being in the US, even had two occasions that involved interacting with the IRS (which were legit misunderstandings).  I never saw the CMRA acronym before this thread, but I detected that post 9/11 there was suddenly an awareness of what was not a "real" postal address; for years I had a one-man consultancy with a private mailbox company address, never had the issue come up.  I can't recall the details, but at one point ECM needed a certified document and I had to hunt down the Malaysian equivalent of a notary public.

I just realized your 60 day deadline expired, I hope things worked out. 

 

* Argentina will issue an effortless 3 month visa to a US passport upon entry, but extending that, well, it'll take a lot of days in Buenos Aires waking up at 5am to get downtown to take a place in line, and hopefully you will get to the counter by closing time.  Malaysia also did the effortless 3 months at the border for US, but once for the heck of it I went to check out a visa extension: they wanted local references, bank guarantees, probably more but I didn't read the last four pages -- a day trip to Sadao or a cheap AirAsia holiday in Indonesia much easier. 

 

 

Things did work out. Thanks

[Heng]

The relative, friend, or tenant (presuming you still own property there) method is the best way to go.  The mail forwarding service/US address rental service is not a good idea as most banks/credit card issuers seem to have a database of these now and don't accept them as permanent addresses.

[cmarshall]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:56 PM, Heng said:

The relative, friend, or tenant (presuming you still own property there) method is the best way to go.  The mail forwarding service/US address rental service is not a good idea as most banks/credit card issuers seem to have a database of these now and don't accept them as permanent addresses.

However, your brokerages and banks are going to be sending copies of their 1099s to the tax commission of the state where your relative, friend, or tenant lives.  Sometime thereafter you will get a letter from said tax commission wondering why you haven't been filing tax returns in that state.  All is not necessarily lost, but that's a letter I would rather avoid. 

[khaepmu]

I have been using my brother's US mailing address for my US bank and Brokerage account for many years, despite living permanently in Thailand. All my tax forms for the IRS  are sent to my brother's address.   My brother told me that he has never received anything form NY State regarding state taxes that I might owe. Not sure if this is unusual. 

[Presnock]

racyrick,

I too am an Americitizen and had the same problem years ago (when the Justice dept in conjunction with many other foreign countries had a law changed so that amcits or other countries too, forced foreign banks to report the country of that foreigner's local account - you might have to change your local bank acct too) anyway, the way around it is for you to join the USstate dept federal credit union.  You do have to be an employee of the govt or any thing like that, just an American citizen, but they will require you to join one of a list of US groups ( I joined the American Citizens Overseas) where you will need to pay a yearly or

lifetime fee but some of those organizations are fairly cheap.  I have had an account with this bank (sdfcu.org) for 3 plus years and have had no problems.  You can get various credit cards, service etc with no problems other than they don't work weekends and are on a US time sched for daily work.  When I transfer funds monthly, it costs 30 USD no matter how much I transfer and I get it in my local account  the next day.  sdfcu transfers funds daily that are transfer messages are received by 8 AM est I think.  Anyway,

they will provide you with a list of services etc if you email them at sdfcu.org.

 

[Presnock]

FYI,

I note that many people use a friend's or relative's address in the states

when they are opening or keeping a bank accout open..  This could in fact be

lying to the feds in an attempt to circumvent the law.  I am not trying to 

intimidate anyone but all should be aware of this fact.  The State Department

Federal Credit Union will open an account for you.  There are other banks too

that I have seen mentioned here that will open an account for you even with

your foreign address.  And, don't forget the FBAR if you are an AMCIT with

a foreign bank account.

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

FYI,

I note that many people use a friend's or relative's address in the states

when they are opening or keeping a bank accout open..  This could in fact be

lying to the feds in an attempt to circumvent the law.  I am not trying to 

intimidate anyone but all should be aware of this fact.  The State Department

Federal Credit Union will open an account for you.  There are other banks too

that I have seen mentioned here that will open an account for you even with

your foreign address.  And, don't forget the FBAR if you are an AMCIT with

a foreign bank account.

I had a bad experience opening a SDFCU account using my US address and then using my foreign address.  In the meantime I opened a checking account (with brokerage account) at Charles Schwab with my same US address without a problem.  In my opinion CS is a much better account to have than SDFCU as they completely reimburse foreign ATM transaction fees.  SDFCU does not.  SDFCU ultimately decided to reject my application to open an account.  The money I paid to join an organization that would allow me to open a SDFCU account was wasted.  I highly recommend Charles Schwab, and would recommend people steer clear of SDFCU lest you have a similar experience to mine.

[BKK24]

On 6/22/2021 at 12:15 AM, dwagner said:

. . . .  The US Patriot Act makes USA banks insure all customers are US citizens with a US address. . . . .

 

Where did you get this information about...you must be us citizen with a US address ___any link to this would be appreciated it

I couldn't find it anywhere on google that say the Patriot Act will make bank/financial institution only insure us citizen with us address only.  All I can find is that the ACT only requires banks to use the best due diligence and to develop and implement their own anti-money laundering program and emphasizes a number of mandatory checks and screening capabilities.  Nothing on it anywhere that says - they will not insure the deposits of us citizen living aboard with foreign address

Edited June 27, 2023 by BKK24

[Pink Mist]

Topic is 2 years old with the OP poster not returning to update the information other than to post in 2021, December saying that things worked out.  This OP has run it's course as far as the OP Poster looking for information and is now                        /////CLOSED///////