I want to whine about the West and "woke" generation

[BKKBike09]

 

14 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

if you forget the past it tends to repeat - you should know this better than most people..

I've never said the past should be forgotten. Far from it. The past should be studied closely. The debate here is about present day responsibility for historical actions. 

[BKKBike09]

18 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Isnt  that a  belief  system though and not a  race.

That's a very pertinent question. But in the context of persecution, does it matter? No.

[rcuthbert]

19 hours ago, rumak said:

 

be careful mr white man !

As I was showering in the locker room of a Vancouver gym, two female employees  enter. We told them to "get out". They said "we are just doing our job" then they started refilling the soap containers, and collecting old towels. Our complaints fell on deaf ears. We were told that there were no male staff that day, and that we needed to accept it, and that it was their right to equal employment that permitted them to enter. LOL!

[Gecko123]

On 6/27/2021 at 6:31 AM, colinneil said:

Yes, he was 100 per cent correct, in nineteen sixty six rivers of blood speech, spot on.

He was cruxified for it, he should have been listened to.

Here is a quote from the Rivers of Blood Speech: 

 

"This does not mean that the immigrant and his descendants should be elevated into a privileged or special class or that the citizen should be denied his right to discriminate in the management of his own affairs between one fellow-citizen and another or that he should be subjected to an inquisition as to his reasons and motives for behaving in one lawful manner rather than another.

 

He's arguing that the government should not intercede and meddle in the personal freedom of citizens to manage their own affairs by not passing a bill which banned racial discrimination in housing and employment. If you still think that the government is overstepping its authority by trying to "legislate morality", I have to ask, with all due respect, whether you think the British government should take a similarly laissez-faire approach to housing and employment discrimination against those with physical or mental disabilities?

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

I thought Colin is - like most foreigners in Thailand, on a short-term (i year), NON-immigrant visa, with no citizenship, no voting rights etc etc.  Hardly the same....

 

I think the poster you were addressing was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who rail out of one corner of their mouth about "woke" culture and excessive attention to social injustice, and who then endlessly moan about every possible injustice they can find about how they are treated in Thailand (i.e., being called farang, dual pricing, etc.)

 

The poster was also pointing out the hypocrisy of people who champion anti-immigration and racial identity politics in their home countries at the same time they choose to marry non-white spouses and live in non-white countries when it suits their needs. What visa someone happens to be on is irrelevant to the issue of whether their behavior is hypocritical.

[NorthernRyland]

34 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

The poster was also pointing out the hypocrisy of people who champion anti-immigration and racial identity politics in their home countries at the same time they choose to marry non-white spouses and live in non-white countries when it suits their needs.

 

I don't want Thailand overrun by Europeans because I understand this will pollute Thai culture and lead to conflict. Likewise, when in America I don't like being overrun by Latin Americans because this will pollute the culture and cause conflict.

 

Perfectly coherent position to take and I bet 95% of Thais would agree with me.

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, canthai55 said:

It gets people to buy the newspapers, watch the TV shows, click on the online links.

All of the above is to generate revenue.

No other reason.

If you keep this in mind you will remain immune to it - even provides a few laughs.

Posted a picture of some of my old friends, fishermen on the Yukon river.

The flack I got for not saying 'fishers'

Told them all to Argo fokurselves

And you know when a Yukon "fisherman" turns PC, the world is out of control. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

44 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

I don't want Thailand overrun by Europeans because I understand this will pollute Thai culture and lead to conflict. Likewise, when in America I don't like being overrun by Latin Americans because this will pollute the culture and cause conflict.

 

Perfectly coherent position to take and I bet 95% of Thais would agree with me.

I know from whence you are coming and I think it is interesting how countries like Japan and maybe Thailand can want to keep a certain type of country without being called racists whereas other countries can't do the same. I don't necessarily concur with many anti immigration arguments but I don't think it makes someone a racist to discuss it. 

 

I think it's a hard argument for the United States though given it is a country based on immigration and native Americans.   Huge chunks  had been owned by Mexico, France, Spain, Russia,  and immigration, be it Germans or Chinese or latin Americans, go back to the start. Then there's African slaves. So I think it's hard to say that you like a particular racial side of America and say that's necessarily the real America.  

That's not to say immigration shouldn't be strictly controlled but just that many latinos and others have just as strong and sometimes stronger historical links  to the  country and continent than whatever people you think is the real America. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[mikebike]

11 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

What we did  would have been done  to us.

Wait... you think native American tribes were gonna cross the Atlantic and subjugate Europe for its resources but y'all had better boats and weapons? Naaa...

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Wait... you think native American tribes were gonna cross the Atlantic and subjugate Europe for its resources but y'all had better boats and weapons? Naaa...

Wait..... you think native American tribes didn't kill and enslave each other, and take each others lands?

[rcuthbert]

The Spanish reported the Aztec's ritualistic human sacrifice, and cannibalism, to the Catholic Church. Then the Holy" exterminations began...

Google:

flesh-of-the-gods-facts-about-aztec-and-human-sacrifice/

[NorthernRyland]

46 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think it's a hard argument for the United States though given it is a country based on immigration and native Americans.

 

but it's not 1800 anymore. The immigrants today are coming into well established cities and inserting themselves into communities and competing for jobs, housing etc... If they were coming and settling open areas and building new cities that would be another matter all together.

 

Ultimately it doesn't matter because the damage has been done and US is now in a state of perpetual conflict and strife. There's no happy ending for the people in the US and part of the reason I'm happy to stay in Thailand.

[NorthernRyland]

54 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

That's not to say immigration shouldn't be strictly controlled but just that many latinos and others have just as strong and sometimes stronger historical links  to the  country and continent than whatever people you think is the real America. 

 

To this point, we have people that literally built schools and the towns around them being displaced by Latin Americans who are just arriving yesterday. The mistake you're making is disregarding linear time and what happened between the times when people were immigrants themselves.

 

Immigrants from England in 1690 are not the same as immigrants from Mexico in 2020.

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Who never took a  sinlge  dime out of the Thai economy unlike many UK  immigrants  did, and was   unlawfully  treated after his  horrific accident.

Yawn. So what Enoch Powell was in fact saying was that the working and taxpaying blacks were welcome, but not those on the dole? 

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

I thought Colin is - like most foreigners in Thailand, on a short-term (i year), NON-immigrant visa, with no citizenship, no voting rights etc etc.  Hardly the same....

Sure, it’s different if you are white. We are not immigrants, we are welcomed expats? Sure. So Colin will be fine with being asked to leave?

 

Or, you are simply a foreigner with no cultural connection to Thailand. Then you marry and have kids, and you stop being a one year holidaymaker. Like immigrants to the UK that Powell referred to. 

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Yawn. So what Enoch Powell was in fact saying was that the working and taxpaying blacks were welcome, but not those on the dole? 

Odd isn't it......the speech only works if you can readily, visually, identify who might be consider to be an immigrant and therefore a danger to the stability of a society........take away that recognition and you have no racism.......that is why the Nazis had to introduce yellow stars too many Jews looked liked 'normal' Germans..

 

Lennon was correct......bagism is the only way forward.

[colinneil]

Just now, AlexRich said:

Sure, it’s different if you are white. We are not immigrants, we are welcomed expats?

You appear to be a very confused person !!!

We are not immigrants.... Yesterday you called me an immigrant.

Use more water in your drink next time, or better still only post when sober.????????????????????

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

I've never said the past should be forgotten. Far from it. The past should be studied closely. The debate here is about present day responsibility for historical actions. 

 

The larger question is whether they really are in the past now? Many would say not. Racial prejudice, unequal treatment, voter suppression are all still alive and thriving. It's not about assuming responsibility for past actions but engaging in real reform to root out what's still here. That's what "woke" really means.

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The larger question is whether they really are in the past now? Many would say not. Racial prejudice, unequal treatment, voter suppression are all still alive and thriving. It's not about assuming responsibility for past actions but engaging in real reform to root out what's still here. That's what "woke" really means.

You are going to get some stick for putting forward sensible, reasoned arguments.

[Thomas J]

12 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

330 million people already. Seriously how many more Latin Americans do we need here? These are the most desperately poor people in the region, what possibly can be done with these people here? I'm seeing them fill up fast food chains and gas stations. Not a very good life for them and they're going to be resentful eventually.

You are correct.  My point was the USA needs immigrants but it does not need more unskilled labor. Computerization is already automating many unskilled jobs out of existence.  The outright lie about doing jobs that Americans refuse to do.  No, they won't do them at $6 an hour which is about what the farmers want to pay.  I might like to run a hospital with paying nurses $10 an hour too.  Does that mean I should get to transfer desperate nurses from the Philippines because they will do the job that Americans refuse to do. 

The USA is a huge food exporter.  So what the current policy of letting in millions of people who will work in the fields does, is provide a livelihood to the farmer so he can sell his product overseas.  Now that is great for the farmer but when you have the father, mother and 3 children the $36,000 a year just to educate his children through high school is a cost that the farmer is imposing on society so he can sell cheap fruit. 

There is a shortage of labor in the USA in "skilled" profession.  We need more engineers, boilermakers, welders, plumbers, electricians, people with skill that can command enough in compensation to be self supporting. 

We do not need millions of people who can not speak English and with less than an 8th grade education that will be a burden on the USA to provide services to allow them to live.  Additionally, when a person can not support themselves legally their only choice is to engage in an endeavor that makes more money, often illegal activities such as burglary or drug trafficking.  All a person needs to do to attest to this is look at the large urban cities where minorities living in poverty thrive by selling drugs.  Look at the violence that is associated with that. 

If you look at China, a nation with 1 billion people.  They will allow immigrants into their country if you have skills they need.  Those with engineering backgrounds are in high demand particularly if they can speak Chinese.   So they are demanding that to enter China you need a skill they require not come because you want to. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

36 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

but it's not 1800 anymore. The immigrants today are coming into well established cities and inserting themselves into communities and competing for jobs, housing etc... If they were coming and settling open areas and building new cities that would be another matter all together.

 

Ultimately it doesn't matter because the damage has been done and US is now in a state of perpetual conflict and strife. There's no happy ending for the people in the US and part of the reason I'm happy to stay in Thailand.

I am not saying therefore open the gates to central Americans or others in a free for all. I sometimes feel Democrats are too soft and almost sentimental on immigration. Control it for the benefit of the country and use it for humanitarian reasons where appropriate. 

Some though seem to feel that one ethnic group, that happened to have most of the power in the United States over the years, represent the real America. A country totally based on immigration. Maybe the point is a bit obvious. 

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

Yawn. So what Enoch Powell was in fact saying was that the working and taxpaying blacks were welcome, but not those on the dole? 

I  wouldnt dream of  putting any words into Enochs  mouth. Try to stay awake.

[Rampant Rabbit]

46 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

You are going to get some stick for putting forward sensible, reasoned arguments.

Or  just ask the likes of Morgan Freeman

 

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Or  just ask the likes of Morgan Freeman

 

A lot of people....racists in particular (not saying you, I don't know you)........... will misconstrue the point MF is making.........he is basically calling for bagism.........if you can't ID someone's race or refuse to ID people by race there can be no racism.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Thank you for your equally thoughtful reply. I think we are on the same page. I recognize there are limits to how much responsibility can feasibly be shouldered for past mistakes, and I don't think people should be put on permanent guilt trips. But I do think that in order for true reconciliation to occur, honest acknowledgement and a genuine commitment to remedial action needs to be taken. Just as an example, I think ongoing remedial action would be far more preferable then any one-time reparation payment. I worry that a reparations payment would imply that any past injustice has now been corrected once and for all, and that there would never again be a further need to address any injustices which persisted.

 

I am descended from the inhabitants of a country that was colonised by England for centuries, and the history of English rule is not a happy one. To date no English government has apologised or given reparations ( that I'm aware of ) for what they did to my forbears, but get this- I don't go around moaning and whining about it with my hand out, because it's in the past. Some of us have moved on to the present.

 

So while it's nice you think I shouldn't be on a permanent guilt trip, I feel no responsibility for what my ancestors may have done to other nations in the past, before I was born. I certainly feel no need to apologise or give them money in my name and I'm quite angry at the governments that do kowtow to the woke movement.

If the huge expenditure over corona has made it impossible to keep giving taxpayers money away to people overseas that have nothing to do with "us", so much the better. I did see a while back that Britain was going to reduce the amount it gave in overseas "aid". Hopefully other western countries will follow suit. It's time for western governments to get off the guilt trip.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, rcuthbert said:

As I was showering in the locker room of a Vancouver gym, two female employees  enter. We told them to "get out". They said "we are just doing our job" then they started refilling the soap containers, and collecting old towels. Our complaints fell on deaf ears. We were told that there were no male staff that day, and that we needed to accept it, and that it was their right to equal employment that permitted them to enter. LOL!

Ever been in Thailand? That happens all the time. First time I arrived in LOS I was using the urinal in the gents when a female cleaner walked in. Took me a bit of time to get used to that.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Isnt  that a  belief  system though and not a  race.

Indeed. A Jew can be black. I recently saw something about Israel government trying to kick them out of Israel though.

https://apnews.com/article/immigration-lifestyle-israel-middle-east-87310c86152b9e57f21934282d8099bb

 

Dozens of members of a polygamous, vegan sect in Israel have received deportation orders from the government, the group’s spokesman said Monday, despite much of the community having received permanent residency under arrangements with Israel.

The community, which numbers around 3,000 people, is comprised of Black Americans whose founders moved to Israel in the 1960s and believe they are descendants of an ancient Israelite tribe. Most live in the southern desert town of Dimona.

 

I haven't heard of any woke western people complaining about that though. Seems the woke are somewhat discriminatory about which issue they choose to be woke about.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, 2009 said:

 

Sorry if I am at risk of sounding "woke" here (perish the thought), but those who cut female genitalia are no worse than those who cut male genitalia -- and before you point out the difference -- I don't give a damn which piece of skin it is or what the function of that piece of skin is.

 

If it ain't a medical procedure - leave it be!

 

Cosmetic and religious circumcision are all just as bad as each other.

 

 

I wasn't circumcised for religious reasons, so I don't give a damn about your belief. It's rubbish, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I have always reeled at the thought that is so easily accepted as a thing.........people just shrug it off....but I am certain that is because you are "not allowed to question the antics of any religion!".........nothing to do with female activism being negligent or unconcerned.

Why are you guys going on about circumcision for either gender being for religious reasons? Millions of non Jewish and non Muslim men have been circumcised.

Female mutilation is a cultural thing, as it's not an Islamic requirement.

 

https://www.unfpa.org/sites/default/files/pub-pdf/De-linking FGM from Islam final report.pdf

A careful and objective look at the Quran reveals that there is no single verse supportingFGM/C.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Once young minority kids realise how much power they're being given over teachers in terms of accusations of racism, education in the West is going to be done for.

You are behind the times IMO.

Western education is dead IMO and all it is now IMO is indoctrination. Look at what is happening in the US with the abominable "critical race theory" ( or "how to make children hate other races" ). Thankfully the woke went too far too fast and the resistance has begun.