Investing for Retirement Income in Thailand 10/15M Baht ?

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, pattayapip said:

Nearly did a few years ago, but then my understanding the moment it did that my Salary from Singapore would need to be declared, hmmm aint gonna happen, not giving them money for nothing, have 30 Years National Insurance Contributions paid for very little to no benefit with not living there

Benefits thereof of getting your tenant to send the rent transferwise !!

[khunPer]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:38 AM, pattayapip said:

I really do welcome sensible replies please and am asking for help/thoughts that might help me with this, it is a genuine situation seeking genuine helpful replies
Thankyou

Having more than a bank deposit rate normally involve some level of risk, i.e. the higher gain, the higher risk factor.

 

I've been investing a bit of my saving in Thailand the later years - based on the philosophy that I'm going to use the outcome of savings in baht, so investing in Thailand protects from currency exchange rate fluctuations - and my investments have actually been performing Okay, but as I haven't been long time in the Thai-game, my value is almost down to zero due to the Covid-drop of stock prices at the moment.

 

However, I'm a long-term investor, looking for the dividends to live of. If I can get a relative steady dividends percentage, and keep the value of my investment in level with the inflation, i.e. the consumer price index, my tied investedmoney will continuously be able to in average buy me the same stuff when I'm taking them the out, as the could when i invested them - on top I have the gain from the dividends.

 

An alternative is to use mutual funds, the so-called Fund Books that many banks offers, where you have professional investors doing the job for you, but they charge you in average around 1.5 percent for the job, even when the don't make any gains.

 

By experience I prefers to do it myself, and being long-term investor, i.e. not trading daily or repositioning my portfolie often - but you might need to check now and then, and reposition some stocks - it's not much of a job, but you might never get bored if you decide to follow the market daily, and read as many financial news as possible...????

 

Many banks offers an online trading platform that is easy to use, I'm familiar with both SCB's platform, and Bangkok Bank's platform; I use both. They are little different but the trading - "Streaming" - is the same in both of them. As foreigner you can only own up to 49 percent of a Thai company, but SET gives you an NVDR-option, where you in major public listed companies can buy shares unlimited, as long as you have no voting rights, which really doesn't matter, as you would need several billions of baht to have any major voting influence. If you buy in companies without NVDR you shall buy stock with the "-F" option (i.e. Foreign) after the code; these stocks are traded seperately and can have slightly different trading price than the major lot, and might have only a small numer in trading; i.e. little less interest in selling and buying.

 

Dividends are paid straight into the bank account you have tied to the trading platform. 10 percent withholding tax has been deducted, and you don't need to do any further about income taxation, if you accept the 10 percent dividend tax. Capital gain from stocks listed on SET are free of income tax.

 

My SET-experience is, that if you invest in stocks with a low dividend payments, i.e. from just under 1 percent and up to about a couple of percent, your gain is an increasing value of the stocks. If you look at 2-4 percent dividend payouts you value increase might often be low, and if you opt for high dividend payouts like 5 percent and more, you might hardly get any capital gain. There are of course exceptions - the trick is to find a high dividend paying stock that in the future also has a high capital gain, unfortunately predicting is a difficult art, especially when it's about the future...????

 

My mixed portfolio have so far given me an average of 3 percent of my initial investment in dividend payouts after withholding tax, slowly increasing from 2.9 percent to so far 3.1 percent. Good companies will slowly increase in dividend payouts more or less following inflation. My investment have so far, even during the Covid-dip followed the consumer price index.

 

As the stocks are trading low at the moment, it might be an excellent time to invest, but if it's right now in the lowest part of a dip, is hard to predict. However, based on my about 40-years stock trading experience, a little fall in value the beginning doesn't matter much for a long-term investor, good wealthy companies kept in good shape will always come back up - the trick however is, to select those companies; Warren Buffet has a number of fine advises you can search up on Google, he might be worth getting inspiration from, based on his performance so far.

 

There are at least one, or perhaps a few, high dividend paying stocks traded on SET that might be worth looking at, as you can gain over 6 percent dividend payouts after withholding tax, not bad to get in that level for 10+ million baht...????

[Rampant Rabbit]

6 hours ago, Andyfez said:

Property in Thailand.

Not in resorts - in good city locations and attractive locations. 30 SQM apartments for young middle income singles and couples.

Spend 2 million on a unit and furniture, and rent out for 11,000 a month.

Buy a few, and if some are empty you won't feel the pinch. Don't buy large and expensive cos rental income won't be so good by comparison.

IMO  the time for doing that was over 10 years  ago when you could easily  have gotten 15% return through rent on new units, I also had the good fortune to buy several  units at very VERY  discounted  prices  dueto a foreign investor  friend I  knew leaving the market and offloading 70  units. Due to the fact mine were  paid for in cash and at 30% below  market  value I  have done well. To buy  now is not anywhere near the returns I got and I wouldnt advise in doing so. 

I  still  have the units and they have always been full even through covid, I can offer  lower rents due to paying less and not  borrowing form banks  to finance them like most other owners  have done.

[1FinickyOne]

On 8/5/2021 at 10:26 AM, RAZZELL said:

and buy a stock that pays something like 5-7% dividend.

 

BP as an example.

An excellent example of why not to buy for yield... a short couple of yrs ago it was selling for in the 40s per share... it is now 25 or so... 

 

how many years of dividends do you need to get back to even... ?

 

Now, if you bought at 15... you are doing great... 

 

You might want a bit more stability if buying for dividends... 

[RAZZELL]

41 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

An excellent example of why not to buy for yield... a short couple of yrs ago it was selling for in the 40s per share... it is now 25 or so... 

 

how many years of dividends do you need to get back to even... ?

 

Now, if you bought at 15... you are doing great... 

 

You might want a bit more stability if buying for dividends... 

 

BP - British petroleum on the LSE not NYSE.

 

And yes, share price is around 50% less than what it was a few years ago.

 

That's why I "believe" it's not a bad entry point.

 

 

RAZZ

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by RAZZELL

[kiwikeith]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:40 PM, mokwit said:

If you have a work permit you should be able to get it out.

My friend shifted 1 Mill bht overseas on his atm visa card, just a bit each day, 

A few punters I know are buying gold, and a bit of silver, people are a bit weary of Bitcoin at present. 

Property is the best investment, not in Thailand, but here and in Australia at present houses are flying through the roof, happening in many countries now.

Rents going up all the time. 

 No money to be made in banks, buy a house rent it and watch it double in 2/3 years. 

When will the bubble burst??? 

My guess is when the banks up the ofc, then it will be fanny and freddy all over again, I don't think the banks want that to happen, so a sudden bubble burst might be a few years yet, but probably will happen. 

[1FinickyOne]

17 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

 

BP - British petroleum on the LSE not NYSE.

 

And yes, share price is around 50% less than what it was a few years ago.

 

That's why I "believe" it's not a bad entry point.

 

 

RAZZ

 

I hope so for your sake and I was an owner briefly.. bought in at 36 and sold at 38 and considered myself fortunate... if you are buying for dividend alone, look at a long term multi year chart, there are probably better places to be parked... though I too have considered buying in again at various points, the oil industry scares me a bit now... though not as much as a deranged person dressed in a clown costume... 

[RAZZELL]

2 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I hope so for your sake and I was an owner briefly.. bought in at 36 and sold at 38 and considered myself fortunate... if you are buying for dividend alone, look at a long term multi year chart, there are probably better places to be parked... though I too have considered buying in again at various points, the oil industry scares me a bit now... though not as much as a deranged person dressed in a clown costume... 

I believe peak oil demand worldwide will not be until 2027/8?

 

BP also own the largest EV charging network in the UK and are continuing to rotate into "green energy", renewables. I just see a "possible" reversal.

 

BTW- I don't have a position in BP, but I am considering one.

 

A quick google will bring up a whole host of alternative dividend stocks ????

 

RAZZ

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

13 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

I believe peak oil demand worldwide will not be until 2027/8?

 

BP also own the largest EV charging network in the UK and are continuing to rotate into "green energy", renewables. I just see a "possible" reversal.

 

BTW- I don't have a position in BP, but I am considering one.

 

A quick google will bring up a whole host of alternative dividend stocks ????

 

RAZZ

 

 

 

Yes, and I do own a few dividend stocks and etf reits, one of which I bought recently and has had a decent appreciation too... mostly I am in your typical index funds as the older i get the less i feel like doing the research and also have a possibly warped dystopian view of the world... 

 

I keep at it, just in case it turns out that you can take it with you... and if not, my family will be happy... 

[wordchild]

i would be one of those who believe that ,in general, shares will  be a better investment than   property or certainly bonds. You can buy a whole range of quality companies in places like the UK, Australia, Singapore, HK  (or even Thailand!)  that likely as a group would offer a reasonably secure and growing income.  The key thing is to limit your exposure to any one company , sector or country. As others have suggested income focused ETF,s are a great way to spread your risk.

 If you really want property exposure then consider Singapore Reits;

 

     1) pretty good income returns 4/5% up

     2) no hassle having to  manage the property yourself, and you can spread your risk and avoid lost income from voids etc

     3)variety of property types and country/currency  exposures to choose from eg Office, Industrial, Logistics , retail, with exposure to a range of different countries. 

    4)mature and well regulated REIT market in Singapore.

 Singapore maybe a safer place to have your money than Thailand, but if you cant move your funds there then you can open an international broking account with one of the leading Thai brokers which effectively also gets your funds out of Thailand.  

Edited August 7, 2021 by wordchild

[khunPer]

Just a note about my opinion about investing in Thai property.

 

You can legally only own condos, and it might take time to sell if you wish to opt out, you might even loose a part of the "investment", if you haven't owned the property for some time, or if it's not placed in an attractive area; and it can sometimes take long time to sell.

 

Gaining net 6 percent per year in the hand might not be as easy as some advertise it. 

 

When investing in stocks - and that counts for anywhere - it only require a click with a mouse to opt out - in case of the investment become unattractive - and you can have cash in your bank account within a few days.

 

Investing in foreign property might be difficult to handle, when you don't live there, and taxation need to be carefully considered, depending of country. Also foreign property can be difficult to sell with profit, if you need, or wish, to opt out.

[White Tiger]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:47 AM, nickmondo said:

dude.  for that sort of investment/return he might as well leave it in a deposit account here in Thailand and not have the hassles.

that is an awful idea what you have said

It's a decent enough return THB180K per year (almost 2% per annum at the start, with 15 rooms, and rental income would increase over time) and he has the property assets to keep which ought to increase in value over time too.  (Additional income can also be generated from the re-sale of electricity to tennants).  It keeps his assets safe which is what he wanted too. Dude It's a really good idea.

Edited August 16, 2021 by White Tiger