7 minutes ago, Red Forever said:

Yup, we've got it farang: you hate Thaksin.

You seem to have an obsession with your length of residence here. Why do you keep showing off?

Just to pick on one part of your delusional anti Thaksin rant: "he gave the masses a few crumbs".

Well, I invite you to come to the village where I live and tell the villagers that Thaksin only gave them crumbs. 

Thanks for your reply. How long are you in Thailand? Did you experience Thaksin in Thailand? Did you see or hear everyday the news when he did again something illegal? Did you notice how he divided the nation?

Maybe you experiences all that. But maybe you only heard about some of the things he did many years later. And we all have the tendency to remember only some of the facts. And if we learn the history from people who saw only part of what happened then it's easy to get a distorted history. That is why I mention that I experienced this behavior first hand. No hearsay. I was also here when the red-shirts blocked the streets and when they burned down the city. All for Thaksin. All to help him to get "his" money back. No, I certainly won't forget that.

 

And with that background knowledge I find it hard to see now that some people pretend he was the messiah. He was and is a greedy criminal and everybody who opens his or her eyes should notice that.

That doesn't mean Prayut is a good leader - he is not.

But when people think Thaksin wound have done everything better then maybe they should remove their tinted glasses. He could always talk a lot and he had and has an efficient PR department. But that doesn't change the fact that he is a wanted criminal who should be in jail.

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Good point!

 

And I am sure with the current pandemic every PM would be accused of doing a bad job. Because simply there is no way to have no Covid, a good economy and all the usual freedoms. Now all leaders anywhere in the world only have to chose between bad options and bad options. And often the opposition blame them for their decisions - with hindsight. And the frustrated masses often cheer for the opposition, any opposition, even if that opposition has no track record of doing things any better.

 

False equivalence. In other countries, citizen have the possibility to vote out incompetent leaders and choose the opposition parties instead.

Amazing that the coup supporters and Thaksin obsessives are still on here trying to give advice and opinions as if they are experts even though they were so spectacularly wrong and continue to spout the disproven Sondhi yellow shirt propaganda that made all this mess possible.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Amazing that the coup supporters and Thaksin obsessives are still on here trying to give advice and opinions as if they are experts even though they were so spectacularly wrong and continue to spout the disproven Sondhi yellow shirt propaganda that made all this mess possible.

And then there are others who seem to work for Thaksin's PR department.

Yes, we know you write he would have done everything better. But just because you write it doesn't mean it's true.

He may be greedy, but he knows politics and he was for the foreigners not against them like the current lot of numb nuts. 

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I remember when Thaksin started in politics. He told the people he is already rich and he does not need to get richer in politics. And the people believed him. And then, not much later, he had to admit what he called an "honest mistake", hiding assets in the name of his maids, drivers, etc. Yeah, very honest.

And then he did all the time those honest mistakes. And he was not only corrupt, he showed to all Thais and the world that he is corrupt and can get away with it. Obviously he gave the masses a few crumbs and the masses loved him. Stupid! 

I was here when Thaksin brought people hope when he started and I was here in the years when many people saw when Thaksin enriched himself. And I was here when the "first" coup happened and people gave flowers to the soldiers because they were happy that finally someone stood up against Thaksin. That was a joyful time.

 

It seems many people who think Thaksin is good were not here or closed their eyes to reality. He is a criminal and he always was a criminal. What is so difficult to understand about that obvious fact?

I too lived in Thailand when Thaksin was in power & just as the this poster has said, Thaksin was rotten to the core. I gave up trying to convince Thais (and farang) in Chiang Mai who adored him, that he was a total scumbag. I'd bang my head on the wall, yet I am one of the few expats who made it my business to not only learn to speak, read and write 'Phasaa Klang' (the Thai language taught in schools - also known as Central Thai) near-fluently, but also to learn to speak the language of the North, known as 'Phasaa Nuea' or, "Cum-Muang" (district language), as that was what my wife & family speak. Back in his time, Thaksins' company sold a satellite to the Burmese government for what I believe was reported as some $500 ? million USD - only the Burmese didn't have the cash, so 'Mr T' settled for $75 ? million USD in cash - and then gave the Burmese a "soft" loan on the Thai government for the remainder. Any further comment on the man would be superfluous. Thailand will NEVER change. After living there for around thirty years I know it and, after eight years in Oz breathing clean pure air and becoming an Australian citizen who now speaks educated English, my wife surely knows it, as she has told all and sundry that she is NEVER going back to LOS, other than perhaps to visit the MIL for a few days when covid is gone. She fears for her friends' back in Chiang Mai, but not enough to lose any sleep over it whatsoever. She is Thai, after all.

People dont seem to understand that any leader isnt human anymore (government, company or any organisation), and the more they change to be a devil. Thats what  history  tells me and i see with humans.

FFP is now down in Thailand since last election and all of their activists in it, cant have a job in government anymore.

Must be rebuilt again form square one and even then what are those people again then and become.

I had to think about this song:

look at me, sitting in this chair
I'm twenty-two and I don't care
My ideals have disappeared
I became one of those I've always feared

 

I had the illusion that I could change the world
Ideals lost, Ideals lost
Nowadays I laugh about the dream I've had
Ideals lost, Ideals lost

they call it grown-up, i think it's just old
Never thought that life could feel so cold

I've lost my faith in my own friends
Always thought true friendship never ends

I'm replaceable and it makes me sad
Ideals lost, Ideals lost
Nowadays I laugh about the dreams I've had
Ideals lost, Ideals lost

Leave me alone and I'll be fine
Do your thing and allow me mine
I just need to disengage
Rebuilt myself and release my pent up rage

Interesting debate, but isn't this a bit like one of those 'what would you do if you won the lottery' questions? As in, it's not ever going to happen (Thaksin returning to power). 

Unless anyone can describe the route to that outcome? 

21 hours ago, off road pat said:

Not everybody had fun,...https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs

I wish they would get tough.

There so much Yaba and Ice ruining villages in our area.

 

Police are selling and act with impunity.

The will to change  must come from the  imperative  need to change. Philosophical whims are the trade of political aspirants that for the  moment of expedient advantage on both sides  can be exchanged   for ....cash !

oh snoopy .........  for gods sake .. give it a rest  !!!                     it's really boring now.

20 hours ago, Anton9 said:

I arrived in Thailand when Yingluck was the PM and life was so much better.

Seriously.

 

You can feel the tenseness in this unelected government.

 

Its suffocating.

23 hours ago, internationalism said:

yes, students have 3 demands, later expanded to 10 demands. Well known for a year now. Were translated to english.

Here an article from american scholar residing in khoen kaen

https://www.newmandala.org/the-ten-demands-that-shook-thailand/

Is there a bullet point listing of the 10 demands ?     Looks very hidden in the link provided ????

On 8/11/2021 at 8:15 PM, david555 said:

No problem for me when he "could " come back , as i remember in his era Thailand was fun , as the Thais smiled more than now the grim smile under P. already so many years 

Nothing to do with Taksin but you, you were 20 years younger.  15 years of being exposed to Thaibashers doesn't help. 

 

 

On 8/11/2021 at 10:12 AM, lolalol said:

Serious question. 

 

When I first came to Thailand around 2017~2018, Thais smiled a lot. Very natural and beautiful smiles. 

When I came back around 2019~2020, I sensed that Thais smiled a lot less. Very fed up looking smiles. 

 

Q1. Did Thais smile more before 2017?

 

Q2. What happened between 2018 & 2019 to make Thai smiles fade away?

 

The military forbid smiles apparently….part of that emergency decree no doubt

6 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

Is there a bullet point listing of the 10 demands ?     Looks very hidden in the link provided ????

many places on the net

https://prachatai.com/english/node/8709

13 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

He's never coming back, he should save some money on the PR firms and let it go.

 

Most of the people driving the current rise in political awareness are far too young to remember his brief reign. And if they study him at all they know he's no better than most wanna-be headmen. Same country, different jockey as they say here.

 

 

 

Yes, he might come back at the very end of his life, or even posthumously, but that's it.

 

 

He was however the only elected PM to complete the full 4 year term of office and the only elected PM to be re-elected for a second term. His sister was also freely elected to be PM.

 

Both of them and their cabinet swore full allegiance correctly to the King Rama IX. 

9 hours ago, FunkyDunky58 said:

Your dismissive and condescending attitude towards student protestors s ays more about you than them.

This is the first enlightened generation in Thailand. Overseas educations and social media has brought about that change.

The scales are off their eyes and will never return. I have listened to people from this movement speak and they know what they want. It's just that what they want is incomprehensible to the Junta  and the Thai "elite". 

There were many enlightened students in the early-mid 1970s.  Hundreds (some at the time claimed thousands) were killed .........

7 hours ago, Keesters said:

My adopted Thai grandson has just reached 5 years old. He appears to be quite bright and very interested in sea animals, shipwrecks, and botany. Only one language at the moment, Thai, but he uses many English nouns rather than the Thai equivalent. E. G. crab, lobster, jellyfish, cactus. 

He'll be starting school as soon as its possible. My hope is that they'll not dumb him down. 

sadly, despite his enquiring mind, he will be forced to conform when he gets to school.

On 8/11/2021 at 10:25 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I remember when Thaksin started in politics. He told the people he is already rich and he does not need to get richer in politics. And the people believed him. And then, not much later, he had to admit what he called an "honest mistake", hiding assets in the name of his maids, drivers, etc. Yeah, very honest.

And then he did all the time those honest mistakes. And he was not only corrupt, he showed to all Thais and the world that he is corrupt and can get away with it. Obviously he gave the masses a few crumbs and the masses loved him. Stupid! 

I was here when Thaksin brought people hope when he started and I was here in the years when many people saw when Thaksin enriched himself. And I was here when the "first" coup happened and people gave flowers to the soldiers because they were happy that finally someone stood up against Thaksin. That was a joyful time.

 

It seems many people who think Thaksin is good were not here or closed their eyes to reality. He is a criminal and he always was a criminal. What is so difficult to understand about that obvious fact?

If it would be possible to find out where the billion(s) of Prayut's Thai Baht come from, the military dictator had to flee Thailand, too. The problem is. Prayut has the judicary completely under control, therefore we will not learn where his dubious money comes from. Be sure, not from his monthly military salary!!!

 

But I'm sure YOU are  "closing your eyes",  when the military dictator took the  regime by a cup! Not by an election - like Thaksin. That's a big difference, but this will not go into your mind/brain.

 

 

Edited August 12, 20214 yr by puck2

“Belittle his own...”?  That doesn’t make English sense. 

10 hours ago, NeoDinosaw said:

There were many enlightened students in the early-mid 1970s.  Hundreds (some at the time claimed thousands) were killed .........

You are correct. That was a tragic chapter in Thailand history. Let us hope the same fate does not await any of these young people.

19 hours ago, orchidfan said:

I recall asking a Philippino maid in HK why she and her mates loved (then) president Marcos so much as he was so obviously corrupt (and rich)?

She replied that ALL Philippine politicians and government officials were corrupt,  but He helped the people and better than most !

Yes, Taksin was the same and did a lot for Chiangmai his home town

On 8/11/2021 at 9:28 PM, Nickelbeer said:

Thaksin was far superior to any government since. All charges should be dropped and he should come back and run again. He would win by a landslide.

In the deep south the Muslim population begs to differ. 

12 hours ago, NeoDinosaw said:

sadly, despite his enquiring mind, he will be forced to conform when he gets to school.

Can get even worse; my eldest granddaughter went to a catholic bi-lingual school for first 2 years of primary school. First lesson every day was English, with strong focus on listening and speaking skills, young well qualified/experienced farang teacher.

 

First twist: the schools local English teacher (much older Thai lady) had . to sit in the back of the class every morning and take notes. Last period of the day (reduced to 30 min., she was expected to repeat the morning lesson but explaining in That for the kids who were not understanding or not keeping up.

Next twist, she spent most of the time telling the kids that the farang English teacher was wrong in terms of grammar and construction, tenses and word endings etc. My granddaughter could aleady speak advanced English and every day she would share the mistakes/confucion the Thai lady was causing.

Next twist, in the Thai lady's lesson if any kids said something in English which was a total copy of what the farang teacher the kids were yelled at and humiliated and told again that what they had said was not correct English.

Next twist, at mid-term and end of term exams the kids has 2 written tests: 1). Test prepared by the farang teacher, 2). Test prepared by the Thai lady English teacher.

This meant that before answering the question the kids had to try to remember what had been taught they had been taught by the farang teacher and the Thai teacher and answer appropriately.

 

End result, many kids got confused and answered wrongly, hence low marks.

 

 

3 hours ago, MarcelV said:

In the deep south the Muslim population begs to differ. 

Unfortunately, the Muslim population "begs to differ" with most everyone. ????

On 8/11/2021 at 9:12 PM, lolalol said:

Serious question. 

 

When I first came to Thailand around 2017~2018, Thais smiled a lot. Very natural and beautiful smiles. 

When I came back around 2019~2020, I sensed that Thais smiled a lot less. Very fed up looking smiles. 

 

Q1. Did Thais smile more before 2017?

 

Q2. What happened between 2018 & 2019 to make Thai smiles fade away?

 

Q1....I remember vividly arriving back in the 1990's, how different it was. Yes 100% a lot more smiles and fun.  People seemed more genuine and everyone was fun. Including foreigners too. This was before the advent of the millions of millions of mass tourists. Having said that, there have definitely been some huge improvements since then, that make some people's lives better. Growth in tourism brought with it financial benefits but also negative aspects too. But as often is seen anywhere in the world, with commercialism, corporate mentalities and mass tourism comes greed, gentrification of cities and changes. Even the many of the types of people who have come in the last 15 years for work and to live, are not the same as the old lot. People were much for adventurous, easy going and fun back then. Sadly many of the the new ones brought with them their wokey mentalities, righteous prejudices and constant whinging. In the old days people loved the fact they were in a different country which was not the same as their own countries and did not want it to change according to how they wanted it to. I think there has been in a change worldwide in people and a lot more serious and political in their thinking. Also social media has much to effect people's thinking. Foreigners were happy to be there and Thai people were happy to see them. Of course now is an incredibly difficult time for many.

 

Q2. I do not think it was something that happened in the short term, it gradually changed over a long time and is not just down to politics or to internal issues. Albeit that of course played a major role. Difficult to pin it to one specific thing.

 

Not sure if that answers it but my thoughts anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by Eagle60
spelling

19 hours ago, billd766 said:

He was however the only elected PM to complete the full 4 year term of office and the only elected PM to be re-elected for a second term. His sister was also freely elected to be PM.

 

Both of them and their cabinet swore full allegiance correctly to the King Rama IX. 

....and can't be considered independently democratic. 

So we're back to square one. 

18 hours ago, puck2 said:

If it would be possible to find out where the billion(s) of Prayut's Thai Baht come from, the military dictator had to flee Thailand, too. The problem is. Prayut has the judicary completely under control, therefore we will not learn where his dubious money comes from. Be sure, not from his monthly military salary!!!

 

But I'm sure YOU are  "closing your eyes",  when the military dictator took the  regime by a cup! Not by an election - like Thaksin. That's a big difference, but this will not go into your mind/brain.

 

 

People never get what they deserve because the options are always so awful and opposing sides are both as bad each other. I did not realise in reality fair elections existed.

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by Eagle60

15 minutes ago, Eagle60 said:

People never get what they deserve because the options are always so awful and opposing sides are both as bad each other. I did not realise in reality fair elections existed.

The 2011 elections were fair according to neutral international observers (who were allowed at that time, unlike in 2017). On top of it, they have been organised by the Abhisit government and a rather yellow tainted Election Commision.