Dying in hospital what happens if........

[Tropposurfer]

10 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

PoA has no relevance after the death of the donor.

 

To answer your question (and it has happened) the hospital would arrange disposal.

Correct

 

[Tropposurfer]

1 hour ago, Thaifish said:

Don't shoot me down as I am not learned on this topic but isn't the executor of the will also responsible for covering debts from the estate. There is a call for debtors to claim payment on the deceased as part of finalizing the Estate?? You cant get blood from a stone so if there is no assets the debtors lose out. The Power of Attorney becomes null in-void upon death then the Executor of the will comes into play. 

An executor (from my thrice experience of being one) manages, disposes of and distributes the assets of a deceased persons estate ... they are not liable for the debts or any other encumbrances of the deceased beyond the assets left by the deceased at time of death.

 

[hotandsticky]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Have you ever looked into that? I gave it the 'once over' a few years and came up with a ton obstacles in my way. So much so that I didn't pursue it any further.

Two friends tried that route - the Thais were not interested.

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

I don't believe that correct.     Friends cannot just go to a hospital and pick up a corpse.

 

 

I have seen it happen. Single Farang died at home close friends arranged collection of the body and a simple cremation. Embassy authorisation was required to move the body from the hospital.

[JimmyJ]

3 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Tell the Doctor you want to donate your body to medical science they will be dismembering your body with in the hour and hopefully donating your good organs to someone in need of a transplant 

This is what I would like to be done with my body.

Edited August 13, 2021 by JimmyJ

[whaleboneman]

7 hours ago, hotchilli said:

A power of attorney controls the deceased's estate as per Will or other means.

They are not responsible for the deceased's debts.

Wrong.

[whaleboneman]

14 hours ago, hotchilli said:

A power of attorney controls the deceased's estate as per Will or other means.

They are not responsible for the deceased's debts.

For clarification: Power of Attorney ends when the person dies. Executor looks after the estate. Neither would be responsible for deceased's debts.

[hotchilli]

10 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

For clarification: Power of Attorney ends when the person dies. Executor looks after the estate. Neither would be responsible for deceased's debts.

I was assuming that the person given power of attorney in life, would continue in the capacity of executor of the Will as he/she has the control of finances?

[RJRS1301]

21 hours ago, brianthainess said:

From my experience it is only someone with power of attorney, who can get the remains released for cremation, if no next of kin show up and so who would foot the bill for the release of remains?  

PoA is invalid ( legally) at the point of death. 

Executor would be responsible for ensuring unpaid accounts are met from any estate, if no monetary or  real-estate, personal belongings of value can be liquidated by the executor, however executor is not personally responsible for unpaid accounts 

[RJRS1301]

16 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

I was assuming that the person given power of attorney in life, would continue in the capacity of executor of the Will as he/she has the control of finances?

The person appointed attorney under a PoA, does not automatically become the executor. A Will appoints the executor who may not necessarily be the same as the person named as "attorney" with a PoA. 

 

[Nojohndoe]

10 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

I have seen it happen. Single Farang died at home close friends arranged collection of the body and a simple cremation. Embassy authorisation was required to move the body from the hospital.

Which means that the Embassy (theoretically) had established good cause for authorization and probably an independant payment to the Hospital .

Interestingly in the question of Thai Wills there is no prolonged probate period in most cases.

[In Full Agreement]

14 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

I have seen it happen. Single Farang died at home close friends arranged collection of the body and a simple cremation. Embassy authorisation was required to move the body from the hospital.

There's always an exception to any rule but I certainly wouldn't count on it.

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

Which means that the Embassy (theoretically) had established good cause for authorization and probably an independent payment to the Hospital .

Interestingly in the question of Thai Wills there is no prolonged probate period in most cases.

1. Yes, of course, there were no family members just willing friends who were prepared to make the cremation arrangements

 

2. No but there is a potentially corrupt court system to go through to obtain probate - and unlike, say, the UK an individual cannot extract.

[kamalabob2]

There is in fact a "probate" system in Thailand. The NOTARIZED will in Thailand makes things much smoother for the executor to proceed. The NOTORIZED will is a significant factor in obtaining funds from a USA bank account, I know from personal experience in 2020 when a friend passed away in Surin Province. He had a will drawn up by a lawyer in Thailand, but it was not notarized in Thailand. With Covid delays, probate of a small estate in Thailand, with no objectors, can still take 6 months or longer. The USA embassy has very experienced staff who will contact the widow by phone, and will help the executor with some paperwork. If one dies with "no family" and "few friends" and "no written will" and "no list of bank accounts" it is a rough go. 

[Nong Khai Man]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:36 AM, brianthainess said:

So friends cannot arrange a decent cremation ?

But You said The Deceased had NO Friends or Relatives, Didn't You ??

[Nong Khai Man]

On 8/13/2021 at 12:34 PM, hotandsticky said:

 

Everyone has an estate........................ the deceased would likely have a bank account and/or income.

Well it would be a TOTAL waste of time looking at My Bank Account, As for Income I Do get a U.K. State pension which would be Stopped on THE Day The DWP are informed of my passing I Believe...

[Nong Khai Man]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:58 PM, Nojohndoe said:

I believe the usual procedure is the Consulate or Embassy  relevant to nationality is informed in an attempt to locate next of kin. In one case I know the Hospital would not release the body until payment  was made AND kept applying a daily mortuary charge. Sadly this guy had a Thai partner who was denied access to his bank funds which were adequate to  pay. Eventually  son from Europe came and sorted it.

Perhaps even for a solo individual a Thai registered Will would be helpful ? An Executor does not have to  next of  kin.

I believe the usual procedure is the Consulate or Embassy  relevant to nationality is informed in an attempt to locate next of kin. & Almost Certainly STOP you're Pension ASAP !!!

[MrJ2U]

A private hospital will make sure you have a way to pay before they admit you.

 

I imagine if its a government hospital they'll toss your body to the local temple to be cremated.

 

 

[hotandsticky]

12 hours ago, Nong Khai Man said:

Well it would be a TOTAL waste of time looking at My Bank Account, As for Income I Do get a U.K. State pension which would be Stopped on THE Day The DWP are informed of my passing I Believe...

 

That is correct NKM. Can't even get a Bereavement Payment for a widow.

 

Your comments suggest that you don't have funds for your extension....... so your estate would be negligible.

[youreavinalaff]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:21 AM, kamalabob2 said:

There is in fact a "probate" system in Thailand. The NOTARIZED will in Thailand makes things much smoother for the executor to proceed. The NOTORIZED will is a significant factor in obtaining funds from a USA bank account, I know from personal experience in 2020 when a friend passed away in Surin Province. He had a will drawn up by a lawyer in Thailand, but it was not notarized in Thailand. With Covid delays, probate of a small estate in Thailand, with no objectors, can still take 6 months or longer. The USA embassy has very experienced staff who will contact the widow by phone, and will help the executor with some paperwork. If one dies with "no family" and "few friends" and "no written will" and "no list of bank accounts" it is a rough go. 

Notarised? Interesting. Have you checked how many agreements regarding notarisation there are between Thailand and other countries?

 

A "Certified" will, countersink by two witnesses is fine. No need to notarized.

 

 

[PETERTHEEATER]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:15 AM, ChipButty said:

A friend of mine died a couple of years ago here in Phuket he had friends but no family, the hospital would not release the body until someone produced a death certificate from the embassy, that took weeks bye the way

So, a medically qualified person accredited by that Embassy examined the patient, determined death had occurred and the reason, signed, and it was validated by the Embassy and issued? ????

[Surasak]

I have to ask, why would you worry about the problem? It wont affect you.

As said below, Don't take life so seriously, no one gets out alive anyway.

However, I do have all bases covered, its only fair.

[Surasak]

57 minutes ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

So, a medically qualified person accredited by that Embassy examined the patient, determined death had occurred and the reason, signed, and it was validated by the Embassy and issued? ????

I find that rather strange. Surely the hospital had a doctor who was treating him. It would be that doctors responsibility to sign the death certificate?

[Mansell]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:58 PM, Nojohndoe said:

I believe the usual procedure is the Consulate or Embassy  relevant to nationality is informed in an attempt to locate next of kin. In one case I know the Hospital would not release the body until payment  was made AND kept applying a daily mortuary charge. Sadly this guy had a Thai partner who was denied access to his bank funds which were adequate to  pay. Eventually  son from Europe came and sorted it.

Perhaps even for a solo individual a Thai registered Will would be helpful ? An Executor does not have to  next of  kin.

I’ve told my wife if I die grab the ATM card and withdraw everything but 50 baht immediately. Do not hesitate, do not pass go, before you get my death validated, get the money…..then call the authorities. 

[GreasyFingers]

56 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I have to ask, why would you worry about the problem? It wont affect you.

As said below, Don't take life so seriously, no one gets out alive anyway.

However, I do have all bases covered, its only fair.

What if you have friends that do not have them covered. Do you walk away.

[Nojohndoe]

31 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I’ve told my wife if I die grab the ATM card and withdraw everything but 50 baht immediately. Do not hesitate, do not pass go, before you get my death validated, get the money…..then call the authorities. 

That would work for an account that can be accessed via ATM card.

Unfortunately for myself and probably others with an obligatory fixed deposit account holding funds for extension purposes there is no ATM card access, only counter withdrawals.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:25 AM, tonray said:

Power of Attorney does not mean you automatically assume the decedent's liabilities upon death. In fact, upon death, the power of attorney relationship is likely terminated.

Not "likely terminated", POAs are terminated on the principal's death. 

[ChaiyaTH]

Depends if the body has some organs to sell, we could settle the bill. Otherwise they ditch you at a silly temple and burn you with soi dogs and 2 monks attending, body might stay in a freezer for a while first though.

Edited August 20, 2021 by ChaiyaTH

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:32 AM, brianthainess said:

From my experience it is only someone with power of attorney, who can get the remains released for cremation, if no next of kin show up and so who would foot the bill for the release of remains?  

Your "experience" is wrong.  When the principal dies the POA ends.   Maybe you're confusing a POA with the executor of the deceased estate, two very different things.  The executor of the estate (not that "your friend" seems to have anything in his estate) would be responsible for the distribution of any assets and the payment of any bills that were due from his assets.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:34 AM, brianthainess said:

There is no estate, no personal rep. or executor.

It's the hospital's problem, then, but, as his embassy would obviously be informed of his death, they'd step in to contact any family and liaise with the hospital.