Streetsmarts - How To Acquire Some

[Maigo6]

your avatars go from bad to worse. Is the last one your actual photo ?

You don't recognise the avatar pic ?

[qwertz]

Guide to a fairly normal and happy existence in Thailand.

Nicely covered - clear and concise.

Can't think of much, if anything, that you have missed.

Random acts of kindness to Farang by Thai's do occur. The trick is knowing how to pick when it is happening.

My constant struggle is to sort the scamers from the legitimately friendly and I hate the bad PR that can be created when I get it wrong..... Usually its in regard to someone being legitimately friendly that I mistake for trying a scam.

It costs nothing to offer a sincere apology for being in the wrong.

If the person you misjudged is as nice as you think, they'll accept it in good heart.

[Tinkelbell]

I am glad stories like mine have helped you. Although sometimes when I post about experiences like this I get called "bitter, twisted, a Thai basher" which really offends me.

I would like to give a small example of my Thai sister. After knowing her about 1.5 years, and knowing now that she was taking commission from many large purchases, here is an example that to me is just ridiculous. I invited her to go to Bali with me for about a month. (She was jobless at this time, due to her own choice, mostly I think now because she made so much money from me, that she didn't need to work anymore.) Anyway, I offered to pay for everything while we were gone. She needed a passport, and against my advise, waited too long in Chiang Mai to get one. So I paid for a RT ticket to BKK to get the passport, and gave her expense money. Of course she kept it all, never gave me the change, of which there should have been plenty. Then, when we had to spend the night in BKK, in order to pick up her passport, the hotel I booked directly, was suddenly more expensive. They made every excuse, including that they thought I was Thai when I booked, and I could not now get this price. She stayed quiet. Then suddenly, the manager came out to tell me what a good friend " Mr. X" is, and I certainly must pay this higher price. Well, MR. X is her boyfriend, and even though I avoided letting her make the reservations, and never asked my friend for advise about which hotel we should stay at, they still called afterwards, to try to get commission.

She tried to get commssion, on a trip I was taking her on for free, when I had to stay in BKK only because we had to pick up her passport, that I also paid for!! I realize this is small money, but why would you want to risk this for small money, if you were her? There are many, many things I could tell everyone, that included big money.

As well, I would like to say, that a couple of years ago when I had a house in an area of Chiang Mai that flooded the most in the giant flood here, that they found for me, she called to say that maybe I was going to have a flood and should move my car. However, I didn't know where to move my car, or how I would get back to my house in order to try to protect my things, and I had dogs I didn't feel good about leaving there. My friend and her husband were not living in an area that flooded, they were not working, and they never offered to come help me. I lost everything, all my furnitute, my computer, aircons, kitchen things, except some things that were on the second floor.

Then they took commission on the next house I rented, told me I could have dogs, in a moo baan that doens't allow dogs. So I never moved in. They also stole many of the stuff I put into storage at their house, or let the neighbors take it, asked to borrow more than 120,000 baht when I was homeless, which I gave them, etc. The flood was a great opportunity for them to get all the commissions over again because I needed to buy everything again. The story is so long and ridiculous. And yes, I guess I was stupid, but I never thought that some friend I had done a lot for, wouldn't even give me a free beer at the guesthouse they bought with mostly my money. But that happened too.

We are always warned about bar girls, but not about general Thai people here. I thought because I was a woman, and not getting involved in the sex industry, and not getting romantically involved with anyone, that I would not be a target for this sort of thing.

Sorry to hear about your plight. Also thank for sharring your saga with us. I'm in the same boat as you. I'm a female, Thai, but having spend more than half of my life in the USA. But gone to LOS average once every two years.

Whenever I get together with my Thai families or Thai friends.

Somehow I got the feeling that I've been taken advantage from some of my closed members of my Thai family, that goes with my Thai friends too. First few times it was all right with me since I had made up my mind to pay for it. But later it downs to me that they expect me to pay for everything even it was them who initiated the idea. For example, about 5 mos. ago I gave my sibling $1200 to pay for both of us for a package tour to Cambodia. The tour costed under $700, the rest $500+... I told her to hold on to pay for miscellaneous expenses on the road. It turned out she kept that $$$ tightly closed to her, I had to open my purse to cover most things. The only time she wipped out $$$ was when she paid for the gifts she bought which she intened to give to her friends or business associates. On the flight back home, first thing she said after we both settled down in the plane cabin....." Next time I would buy first class ticket." I told myself it definitely not going to be the next time for her.

What I try to say, some (bad) Thai is going to take advantage of you no matter you speak Thai or not. They don't care whether you're their friend or family. For them they value materialism. No matter how streetwise you are, it's going to be a challenge.

[Maigo6]

What I try to say, some (bad) Thai is going to take advantage of you no matter you speak Thai or not. They don't care whether you're their friend or family. For them they value materialism.

Tinkerbell, what you mean is YOUR family are like this with you, please don't put the other 20 Million Thai families whom you don't know in the same basket.

[jdinasia]

Because of the few people on this thread who decided to be rude, and make basically abusive comments about me and what I wrote, I have been thinking for the last few days to just quit this forum. I realize that maybe those people think it is fun to antagonize others, that they feel better about themselves to claim that they were never fooled, cheated, lied to, stolen from because they did the proper research, they don't wear "kick me" signs, they don't "play the victim", don't try to buy friends, and all the other ridiculous things that they have decided I did and therefore deserve whatever I got.

But those same people never answered my questions: such as, what Thai culture books talk about the commission system here? And the fact that Thai culture books can make things more confusing here because they tell you things like: Thai people expect the richest person to pay. Thai people expect the older person to pay. If you invite a Thai person for dinner, don't be surprised when they show up with 5 extra people. They also tell you that you cannot confront a Thai person with any complaints because they will freak out basically.

How many people on this forum give the advise to "get a Thai friend to help you" without any warnings?

I have also learned in life that people who lie, expect others to lie. People who cheat on their spouses, always think their spouse is cheating on them. People who scam others, sometimes expect they are being scammed. I don't do these things, therefore it was not in my mind all the time that people would do these things to me. I don't think like a criminal therefore find it hard to read the minds of criminals.

I don't think being a nice, honest person is a fault that I should work on correcting. Maybe some of you need to work on your empathy skills.

and you are STILL playing the victim! Grow up! Take some responsibility for your own choices!

[blizzard]

these (girls) could sell their adventures to ophrah.

is there a thai equvalent.

good to hear theres silly farung chicks to go with the kooky menfolk.

[qwertz]

I never consciously thought like a criminal until I was sworn in as an interpreter for the police.

It still surprises me sometimes to find how much criminality and deviousness lurks behind a respectable exterior.

Conspiracy, theft, embezzlement, fraud, child abuse, bodily harm of all kinds; the list is endless.

From people who look totally respectable, law abiding and harmless.

It's no wonder that unsuspecting people get shafted.

Think like a cop and nobody out there is clean.

[MTW]

jdinasia,

You sound like the type of person, who when you hear the story of some woman being raped, says "she was probably asking for it because she was wearing a short skirt."

Could you please find some other poster to follow around making the same one-line comment, over and over again, as I would prefer to not be "victimized" by this anymore.

[peridot]

I was recently invited to dinner with four Thai people, one of them my boyfriend. The others were his friends from work. They spoke Thai the entire time, and I sat and listened. This is opposite the usual situation, when my Thai man sits in silence listening to me and my farang friends talk. I was pleased to be on the other side. But I was also wondering what would happen when the bill arrived. When it came, my man passed it to me and asked me to pay. I flushed bright red, but it was only 300 baht, so I paid it. I stewed all the way home, and then we talked about it. I was not the host, and not even much of a participant. Why was I expected to pay? As soon as I brought up the feeling of being taken advantage of, he apologized. He was also embarrassed that the bill was passed to him, but didn't want to embarrass his friends by saying anything.

Next time, I swear to myself that I will simply pull out money to cover me and my man and pass the check to the next person. I don't want to be perceived as cheap, but I don't want to be taken advantage of, either. And my conscience tells me that I am being taken advantage of to pay for people I don't know, didn't invite and didn't speak with.

It is frustrating to me to try to learn how to question things like this in Thailand. It is impolite to point out that I feel taken advantage of, because it causes the other person to lose face. That seems a very convenient way to blame me for objecting to being taken for a ride. But I have also learned that making a fuss will result in everyone present turning to stone -- not fixing the problem, just holding their breath until I shut up. I asked my man about this, and he says that he doesn't trust Thai people either, for the same reasons. And he is Thai.

I also asked him about the idea of commissions in Thai culture. He is from Isaan, and says it is not at all part of personal interaction, but is definitely part of business interaction. He warns the customers at his hotel to be wary of offers from the taxi drivers, and avoid the tuk-tuk drivers if possible.

I don't think all Thai people are trying to take advantage of me. But I see some cultural perceptions about farangs, and about perceived wealth, that are very different than my own. I also see very different interpretations of honesty and truthfulness than I am used to. For the first year I was amazed at how friendly everyone was. Now in my second year, I am somewhat disillusioned, which feels healthy. I don't think people here are any better or worse than people in America or France, but they sure are different.

[Maigo6]

Next time, I swear to myself that I will simply pull out money to cover me and my man

Why does your man not pay ?

I'm a man and I always get the Bill when I'm with a lady, no matter what country I'm in.

[soundman]

I was recently invited to dinner with four Thai people, one of them my boyfriend. The others were his friends from work. They spoke Thai the entire time, and I sat and listened. This is opposite the usual situation, when my Thai man sits in silence listening to me and my farang friends talk. I was pleased to be on the other side. But I was also wondering what would happen when the bill arrived. When it came, my man passed it to me and asked me to pay. I flushed bright red, but it was only 300 baht, so I paid it. I stewed all the way home, and then we talked about it. I was not the host, and not even much of a participant. Why was I expected to pay? As soon as I brought up the feeling of being taken advantage of, he apologized. He was also embarrassed that the bill was passed to him, but didn't want to embarrass his friends by saying anything.

Next time, I swear to myself that I will simply pull out money to cover me and my man and pass the check to the next person. I don't want to be perceived as cheap, but I don't want to be taken advantage of, either. And my conscience tells me that I am being taken advantage of to pay for people I don't know, didn't invite and didn't speak with.

It is not at all innappropriate to split bills in Thailand.

If you invite everybody to say... you're b'day party you pay (& vice versa)

If its a bunch of friends going out for an after work dinner (or karaoke) its the norm to split the bill....

If you invite everybody out on a work function (& you're the boss) you pay.

If you're at the whiskey circle in the nightclub arriving casually - split bills... (unless the big wig of the table offers)

If you decide to pick up the cheque cos you're feeling generous - totally up to you - not un-appreciated though...

If you offer to buy someone a drink - you pay.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[MTW]

Hi peridot,

All I can say is be happy the bill was so small and let your bf know that you will not be paying for his friends when you two go out, that he will be paying if they try to make the "rich farang" pay, as he will be paying you back when you are so kind as not to humiliate him by making a problem at the moment.

This is probably the issue which has most infuriated me about Thai people as I have had similar things happen. I was here about 1.5 years before I got a Thai boyfriend. I was careful to be sure he paid when we went out. He is not a child, certainly has paid for every Thai girl he has been with, including the standard girlfriend allowance, so why should it be any different, other than I don't require an allowance in order to have sex with him, which should free up some money to pay for going out in my opinion.

We had a situation come up where he had a job in Zurich for a few weeks. At this time I had to be in LA for about 6-8 weeks, so we decided that I would come spend 10 days or so in Zurich with him. Well he had an offer from a Thai friend to stay at that friend's house. I was not immediately invited to stay there, but did not want to stay there and got a hotel in the area. Four other Thai people came to Europe with him, to mostly pretend to work, but to get a low cost trip. One of them is a lawyer here, and all the others have good businesses, and decent money. However, the Thai person they knew who had been living in Switzerland for years, had invited the others, let them stay at his house, and organized what they called "sponsors" to pay for everything while they were there. These people are not students, are not athletes that need sponsors to pay for them so they can get to the Olympic games or something, and were earning money on the trip.

By bf was staying in my room, that cost $150 a night and of course I paid for my flight and expected to pay for my own expenses. It was a problem for me that Swiss people were convinced to take all of us out for dinners, drinking, tours, and pay for everyone. I could not feel right by not contributing. What could I do? If the host paid for my drink, as well as 7 other people, I could pick up the next round to pay him back. But this was much more expensive than it would have been to just pay for myself, or even including my Thai b/f. The Thai people I was with, NEVER took one penny from themselves to pay for anything, they were happy to pretend that they were all dirt poor, and couldn't even buy themselves a water if they were ready to die of thirst.

Let me tell you, that afterwards, I have seen, gone out with the lawyer, who in my city goes around with a set of bodyguards, a driver, has a nice house and cars, and doens't think twice about buying 5 bottles of Black Label a night. But he did not even have the money for one beer in Europe. At one point our Swiss/Thai host asked me to pay for everyone to go visit a mountain top, that would have cost me about $700. I said that I was willing to pay for me, for my b/f, and for the Swiss/Thai guy since he was at least organizing other people who were paying for my dinners sometimes, etc ... so I could think of him as my host, but I could not pay for anyone else. So, we never went.

Some months after I got back to Thailand, my b/f wanted to go to a concert in BKK, and one Swiss/Swiss, guy, not the Swiss /Thai guy, he had moved back to CM already, was coming into town and we were going to meet/greet him. The first night we went to the concert, my b/f had his business robbed and many valuable things taken. He was on the phone in the street, talking to the police. The Swiss/Thai guy ordered all of the seafood, but then told me "didn't have Thai money on him and couldn't pay" even though he had been back in Thailand for many months, the other guy tried to pay with a credit card, but they didn't take credit cards, so it was left to me. By the way, I had told my b/f that I thought paying to travel and all to BKK just to go to a concert was stupid and that I didn't have the money for it since I had just recently spend $5500 in Switzerland and spent 6 weeks in Los Angeles. He said he would pay for everything. I still thought it was a stupid use of his money. But this weekend wasn't supposed to cost me anything.

So, I don't pay for the airfare or hotel, but pay for the concert tickets costs that he owed his friend because I felt sorry for him with the business loss. Shortly after discreetly handing his BKK friend the concert money, I end up paying for a very expensive seafood dinner for 4 people. Next day, the Swiss man arrives, and we all go on one of these cruises on the river in BKK which was not planned by me. Turns out the some of the guys see some friends of theirs and invite them to eat and drink with us. There ended up being 8 men there, all bragging about how they are actors and rich, they are rich, they are famous, one man from a very well known band in Thailand. Most of the food, the Swiss man and I don't eat, like frog, like raw oysters, and the Swiss man cannot eat anything spicey. So the jerky Swiss/Thai man who is starting a business with the real Swiss man in Thailand, orders him FRIED RICE.

Then when the 6000 baht bill comes, the Swiss/Thai guy asks my boyfriend to have me pay!!! I was shocked, and ended up paying half and telling my Thai b/f that he would have to pay me back as I was sick of this shit. As well, other things came up during this trip that nobody had money for but me. I want to host the Swiss man, okay, but cannot pay for 8 people again, because they invited a bunch of idiots with us. This was especially ridiculous because I was the only woman there, but I was also only one of two farangs, but this farang had already paid a lot for some of the Thai people we were with. And I was the youngest person there. (I say this because I have read many books that say the richest person pays, the oldest person pays, etc.)

The Thai people who had been on the receiving end of the Swiss man's hospitality didn't give a crap about paying him back, at a cheaper rate even, now that he was in Thailand. And then, after the dinner, the Swiss/Thai man, even though he is married and has two children, used the cash I gave him to go pay for a hooker, because he put the receipt for the dinner on his business and his wife wouldn't notice the missing money (in which case the real Swiss guy was already paying half because their business never made any money and this dinner was probably being deducted as a business expense as well.)

Thai people put a lot of pressure on my b/f to get me to pay, to ask him if they could borrow money, etc. Even MR. Swiss/Thai guy, when he was drunk asked me why I didn't bring his kids gifts from LA, even though I had spent only about 2 hours with them, even though the Thai people who stayed in his house for 10 days didn't buy them gifts, didn't even buy them an ice cream when we were out visiting sites. And even though I spent thousands of dollars to air freight the few belongings I was not willing to part with, from LA, and then got reamed by customs in Thailand for about 30,000 baht, when everything I was bringing here was allowed legally. He thought I should have shipped by air some extra gifts for his kids.

And he also, told my b/f when he was drunk, that he was going to F*uck me after my b/f was done with me. I would rather have sex with a dog than that guy. Well that pretty much put a dent in their friendship, as well as I put a stop to everything and everyone who wasn't willing to pay for themselves, and would no longer be paying anything.

Some people call me a Thai basher when I talk about things like this, or when I just give my opinion without the whole long stories. Or one particular poster likes to say that I "like to play the victim" whatever that means. However, I have done the best I can to negotiate difficult situations, that are totally beyond my realm of comprehension as I have never in my life meet people that are so greedy, so rude, and who change all the rules to suit themselves.

I hope this story makes you feel better. And just learn to lie when people try to stick you with the bill.

[Maigo6]

And he also, told my b/f when he was drunk, that he was going to F*uck me after my b/f was done with me. I would rather have sex with a dog than that guy. Well that pretty much put a dent in their friendship

Good post MTW, I think your BF is just using you as a status symbol actually.

Stand your ground girl and don't let people take advantage of you.

Good luck.

[MTW]

Thank you Maijo6. It really is hurtfull when I try to post my experiences here, and get told by my fellow farangs, a bunch of negative things and stating basically that I deserve what I get. I realize I have made mistakes here, and am not asking them to send me money to pay for those mistakes. I am simply trying to warn others and as a fairly private person, I don't get a thrill from posting negative things about myself or my situation.

I have felt better many times, once I found this forum, to see that I am not the only person who has problems here, to find people who seem to think the same as me. But there seems to be a small percent of people here who really enjoy to stick it to you, and that makes me sad.

Anyway, I appreciate a lot a nice message from you.

[torito]

I realize I have made mistakes here,

There are no place in this world wanting of smart azzes....there is not a single person I know who has not made mistakes in life. There are no harder things for a person than to accept one's mistakes....personally hate to learn lessons, but the more I live the more aware I am that more will come, no matter how confident I may feel about myself.

This world is also full of vulnerable people and alwasy there is a bas**rd ready to take advanatage of him/her. I would not worry too much about what people say about you...just keep doing your best MTW. Is the only thing that one can do. All the best.

[Edonista]

your avatars go from bad to worse. Is the last one your actual photo ?

You don't recognise the avatar pic ?

Really, I don't. Who's that ugly guy supposed to be ?

[Edonista]

to MTW , I can just repeat my advice: move off, shake off all the leeches and restart, and this time for God's sake do not mix with locals !

Edited June 4, 2007 by Edonista

[Maigo6]

Really, I don't. Who's that ugly guy supposed to be ?

It's Bubbles, a character from a Canadian TV series and a movie called 'The Trailer Park Boys'.

I think it's the funniest stuff I have seen for a long long time, it's very very good.

Canadians have shot right up in my estimation due to 'The Trailer Park Boys'.

[qwertz]

Quote MTW.

It really is hurtfull when I try to post my experiences here, and get told by my fellow farangs, a bunch of negative things and stating basically that I deserve what I get. I realize I have made mistakes here, and am not asking them to send me money to pay for those mistakes. I am simply trying to warn others and as a fairly private person, I don't get a thrill from posting negative things about myself or my situation.

I have felt better many times, once I found this forum, to see that I am not the only person who has problems here, to find people who seem to think the same as me. But there seems to be a small percent of people here who really enjoy to stick it to you, and that makes me sad.

We're not all like that, MTW.

It's just that many have been there, done it and got wise.

They're cynical and have little patience for others still in a learning curve.

BTW, I found it a little hurtful too when a pretty shop assistant in the Big C sat by me in the coffee bar and asked me how I'd like to go bowling, with dinner afterwards of course.

She didn't know me from Adam but I knew her because she'd run the same number on a friend of mine the week before.

She invited the whole neighbourhood, who partied and left without a thank you when the bill came.

It's insulting because it's so bloody insincere if that's all we're worth there.

Her face was a picture when I asked if she had no more time for Alan after cleaning him out and told her I preferred BGs because they are at least honest about what they do.

Just so you know, men are targeted by the predators too.

Edited June 4, 2007 by qwertz

[qwertz]

MTW, you're preaching to the converted.

Lots of BMs have strong views on things.

Me too and I've been yellow carded a time or two for starting bun fights.

The mods are there to keep things clean and PC but they don't interfere in hot discussions unless things get out of hand.

Better to use the PM facility if you need to.

Back to topic: I started this thread because I thought it would generate helpful input for the uninitiated.

It has to include every one with an opinion, I don't expect it will help everyone but I hope it helps some BMs, including you of course.

As for JD, he doesn't feel abused - okay, I understand that.

I haven't been abused directly either but as I pointed out in my last post, it doesn't stop people, both Thai and Farang, from trying.

So I know I'm a target for users too.

Just like you, because I am amiable and polite and I just look like the typical mark.

Unlike you, I don't have a soft centre so the niceness you and others perceive is my inner battle managing not to let my case hardening show too much.

I know where JD's coming from too.

It's for sure he's seen a lot in his time from the way he posts.

Whatever you do, MTW, be selective with the input and take some on board.

There's a lot of sense being posted along with the negatives.

Edited June 4, 2007 by qwertz

[Pepe']

Hello. My name is Pepe" and "I have street smarts."

[qwertz]

Yo Pepe, you learned yours the hard way too I guess.

Nothin' ain't worth nothin' 'less it's free.

Edited June 4, 2007 by qwertz

[Tinkelbell]

What I try to say, some (bad) Thai is going to take advantage of you no matter you speak Thai or not. They don't care whether you're their friend or family. For them they value materialism.

Tinkerbell, what you mean is YOUR family are like this with you, please don't put the other 20 Million Thai families whom you don't know in the same basket.

Maigo6, you got it all wrong. I would never-ever put down my other 60 million compatriots to shame.

In my post I say 'SOME' & 'BAD' , which I had encountered with members of my family and my friends.

Unfortunately for me, these people are the ones that I meet and associated with during my stay in LOS, no way to avoid it. Now with the exchange rates is not very good in the past few month. The thought of going back to LOS and spend my money is not very attractive at all.

[qwertz]

I think JD went to bed, MTW.

He must be exhausted, I don't think I ever saw him write so much.

The subject must be close to his heart.

[Edonista]

Really, I don't. Who's that ugly guy supposed to be ?

It's Bubbles, a character from a Canadian TV series and a movie called 'The Trailer Park Boys'.

I think it's the funniest stuff I have seen for a long long time, it's very very good.

Canadians have shot right up in my estimation due to 'The Trailer Park Boys'.

Next time I go to Tukcom will look for the DVDs.

[peridot]

Next time, I swear to myself that I will simply pull out money to cover me and my man

Why does your man not pay ?

I'm a man and I always get the Bill when I'm with a lady, no matter what country I'm in.

Gee ... umm ... I am not a lady ...

Be careful what you assume.

[peridot]

I hope this story makes you feel better. And just learn to lie when people try to stick you with the bill.

MTW,

Thanks for sharing your story, but it doesn't make me feel better to hear your woes. I am sorry you go through this in your life.

I don't want to learn to lie. It is difficult enough to try to change my understanding of what the truth is in Thailand compared to what it was in California. I am learning that it is not as clear or absolute as I thought it was. But although I may learn to be a bit more vague, I won't lie next time I get stuck with the bill. I will just put the amount I believe I fairly owe on the table and pass the bill back to the others.

I think I would learn to lie if someone told me they didn't have their wallet, or forgot their money, though. I might just say I don't have mine, either, play the stupid farang, and let them deal with the proprietor.

Edited June 5, 2007 by peridot

[mellow1]

MTW: I've read your posts and I sympathize with your experience.I grew up in Chicago, and although being "street smart", it hasn't immunized me from being screwed over at times.Obviously,not as slick as some of the other members.Read the papers here,as well as the forums.In the papers you will notice that this society thrives on corruption.There is hardly a project,business deal, or politician in which later,you will not find corruption and,or abuse of power.It is better now,or so we are told.These are the countries role models,no one goes to jail,and no one ever gets tax audited,to see where the money came from.Many people want to be like that when they"grow up".I suggest,you take the advice,of keeping people at arms length.Yes there are good thais as well as bad.Your friendliness,open mindedness,and generosity,are only seen as being a big sucker.You have nothing in common with the average Thai.Also,if there is nothing to be had from you,there will be no reason to be around you.You cannot communicate and you are irrelevant because you are farang.The well educated Thais, many of better,to good moral character,do not have the time for you.They are working hard and taking care of their family.They would also think that you are foolish,and not prudent in your lifestyle as well as your beliefs.When people talk about money,especially yours,your mind should automatically shut down and the ability to communicate in any language should cease.Giving or lending money to your boyfriend,is certainly OK with me.Although,I have never been on the receiving end,I don't mind giving it to my wife but it also doesn't bother me.Many times its better to be lonely.Nice self sufficient people,with no ulterior motives are hard to find.They are careful ,and guard themselves, and their families ,from the type of people which you describe.Be they Thai or farang.If you were to go out by yourself,you will find "drinking buddies"to talk to without financing their lives.Be careful and try to go to nice places.With the kind of money you throw around on your "friends",you can afford it.Who knows,you might meet someone really nice.It usually happens when you least expect it,and not looking for it.Good luck to you,and try to be happy. mellow1.

[orchis]

MTW I think you put 'your sister' as a buffer between you and Thailand, so all your dealings and experiences are filtered through one person and that person isnt you. If that person ,you in a way use for convenience's sake, is 'bad' then everything you do, try or obtain will be experienced as 'bad'.

I think you might need more interaction with a lot of (Thai) people, you seem to have developed a 'bunker' mentality through your negative experiences. Do you speak Thai, do you communicate in everyday settings with Thais? Surely those cannot all be out to take advantage of you.

I only write to tell you of my surprise at your experience, having lived here for 12 years and working in a sector with a lot of commissions and abuse, I can still count over 10 good experiences for every negative one.

[qwertz]

Orchis, it takes all kinds.

I've been following the input here and IMO you all have a valid point, because you're all different.

Your sensitivities vary from zero to extreme, which is only to be expected.

After running or managing businesses for many years I'm still careful in my dealings with people, perhaps sometimes unecessarily.

But I leave a window open to understanding people and there is just about every kind on this forum.

So when I read you, JD, MTW and Mellow I see a little bit of me in all your views.

The problem with company, good or bad, is that some people need it and don't function well alone.

IMO, we're not all capable of seeing through every tricky person who pretends to be a friend.

One or two people on the board seem to think that trust, sincerity and sympathy for others must be character defects.

I don't.

But I keep my trust under wraps behind my friendly exterior.

And I'm not just talking Thailand.