What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[EricTh]

16 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

BS.  My first 'long term' visa was an educational visa taking Thai language lessons before they cracked down on the visa.  At that time, it was easy to extend (but then the first extension was after less than a full year (forget if it was 3 or 6 months).  They cracked down on the educational visa and then many of those moved to using visa-waivers repeatedly until those were cracked down on, then they moved onto tourist visas... 

 

 

It was based on my personal experience.

 

I was in one of those 'learn Thai' classes where many people didn't attend classes. When I asked why.. the teacher didn't even bother to answer.

 

It was that easy to get education visa before the pandemic. 

 

This young guy below has been honeymooning in Thailand for nine months and still going for a few more months without leaving the country at all. If there's a crackdown , I don't see any.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by EricTh

[Old Croc]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Many don't realize it but Thailand has made the citizenship process much easier than pre 2008. If married to a Thai, and working for 40k a month, the process is only 3 years and costs 5,000 baht. 

You may think starting work again at my age is easy, but I would need a gold plated passport and a generals star to do that.

And I rarely hear that  being married to a Thai is a bed of roses! 

Also, three years is a lifetime for many of us.

 

 

(humour)

[BE88]

15 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Your living expenses are not an investment. Nor are your taxes. Nor is the property you live in.

 

If you invested money without the possibility of a return on that investment, that would be very odd.

 

You came to a place many only come on vacation, you lived the dream and you call that an investment in Thailand? 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand what you mean, your English translation probably doesn't work. As Thailand is a dream that you Thais think, you have is becoming only a swamp of pollution, tourists have moved to other less polluted shores.

Massive Thai tourism is over and the covid will set the final stone.

 

 

[Thunglom]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Other than the yearly extensions they have no "right" to stay. Renewal is not guaranteed.

An immigrant would have some "right" to stay indefinitely, IMO.

 

IMO expats in LOS on non immigrant visas are long stay tourists.

There seems to be a resistance to being called "immigrants" - basically because of their own feeling of superiority - which is of course just a reluctance to admit they are being racist.

they are immigrants - bits of paper and how they do it may vary from country to country but in the end they are immigrants.

[GinBoy2]

14 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

There seems to be a resistance to being called "immigrants" - basically because of their own feeling of superiority - which is of course just a reluctance to admit they are being racist.

they are immigrants - bits of paper and how they do it may vary from country to country but in the end they are immigrants.

Not quite sure I understand your point.

 

Immigrants, and my wife is one in the US enjoy all the benefits of a citizen pretty much, up to the point that they can't vote.

 

A 'long stay tourist' in Thailand on a yearly extension of a non immigrant visa has exactly the same rights, as well a tourist which is basically nothing.

 

I'm unclear who you were directing the 'superiority' comment too. Farangs in Thailand or the Thais themselves?

[Noah K]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:26 AM, Neeranam said:

Wht 6 days? Surely you only have to visit immigration once a year and it doesn't take all day. 

You can do 90 day online. 

If you do do it physically, it's a nice day out and can have a chat with the waiting  check-shirted brigade. 

well, I was new at it, takes a couple of days just to get Bangkok bank to get me a printout of my statement, and everytime I go online to do my 90 checking there is something wrong and I cannot finish, so it is usually a trip to Promenade, and no big deal. Next year I will getting it managed better

[Thunglom]

21 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Not quite sure I understand your point.

 

Immigrants, and my wife is one in the US enjoy all the benefits of a citizen pretty much, up to the point that they can't vote.

 

A 'long stay tourist' in Thailand on a yearly extension of a non immigrant visa has exactly the same rights, as well a tourist which is basically nothing.

 

I'm unclear who you were directing the 'superiority' comment too. Farangs in Thailand or the Thais themselves?

you are making a false distinction and largely dependant on your own centric viewpoint - there is no real legal definition as it changes from one voluntary to another - if you intend to stay longterm in another country you are an immigrant.

White people in Thailand have trouble with the word "immigrant" but have no problem referring to other people in their own country as "immigrants" - especially if they have dark skin.

 

in the UK they call many people "9illegal) immigrants" when infant they are not intending to stay forever and aren't illegal - so they try to find other arms for themselves - which e basically euphemisms for "immigrants".

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Thunglom

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

How many people care, I wonder. I don't. I do not break into tears because someone in the village doesn't say hello or stop to talk for hours while walking down the street. And so what if they don't like my skin color. I'm not going to need therapy because of it. I'm fine. Of course, I was socially distant long before social distancing ever came into being. No other Westerners in village and I rarely even run into other farangs at all.  And I don't care about that either.

All to the well and good, but if someone wants to make a life for themselves I'm afraid the type of social exclusion you describe rather works against you. I guess we just don't belong here.  Personally, I would not advise anyone to stay here a long time. If you do, perhaps because you have married or have kids, then I'm afraid it is a matter of resilience, and instinct for survival.  Thinking about it I don't think there has been a day gone by when I haven't at least been unlawful, although most would class it as just being normal, wholesome even. 

 

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed.

[Cherrytreeview]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Yes, India is the best in the world for that. 

I came here for the weather and beaches, initially, the girls were an added bonus. Big difference in coming here in 20s or 50s.

Now, in my 50s, if i wasnt here, i would  probably come for the sex. But i didnt 30 years ago.

 

 

Having read a number of your pompous posts, you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder regarding older expats and the UK.

I wonder is this because you have been living on your Thai teachers salary and realised you haven't accumulated enough wealth for a comfortable old age.

Unlike a lot of the guys you attempt to mock.

Many who have a UK state pension, work pension and income from other property/investments.

I think your assumption about what you will receive as a UK state pension is incorrect.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

Basically, you need 10 qualifying years of NI contributions to get anything.

In case you weren't aware, the UK state pension is frozen for UK expats in Thailand. Not a great result for anyone.

I have spent a very pleasant spring and summer in the UK and watched Thailand's monsoon season floods with amusement.

When it suits me, i intend to return to Thailand and split the year between their and the UK.

It's wonderful to have options.

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

 As Thailand is a dream that you Thais think, you have is becoming only a swamp of pollution, tourists have moved to other less polluted shores.

Massive Thai tourism is over and the covid will set the final stone.

Western tourism will never get to former levels, but Thailand won't give a toss. The Junta is not interested in attracting finicky and complaining people from traditional western sources.  The emphasis now, and in the future, will be on Middle Eastern, Indian and obviously Chinese tourists all of which exist in torrents.

Have you read today's news about the fast train link from China to Vientiane opening in December and Thailand's plan to link it in to Bangkok before the end of the decade? 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Old Croc

[mommysboy]

30 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

you are making a false distinction and largely dependant on your own centric viewpoint - there is no real legal definition as it changes from one voluntary to another - if you intend to stay longterm in another country you are an immigrant.

White people in Thailand have trouble with the word "immigrant" but have no problem referring to other people in their own country as "immigrants" - especially if they have dark skin.

 

in the UK they call many people "9illegal) immigrants" when infant they are not intending to stay forever and aren't illegal - so they try to find other arms for themselves - which e basically euphemisms for "immigrants".

 

immigrant- a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

 

So right and wrong.  

 

But certainly, we are not immigrants in the legal sense. Most of us have an extension of stay based on a non-immigrant visa which has elapsed.  Accordingly we have no citizen rights that count. 

 

 

[thaibook]

On 9/17/2021 at 1:36 AM, Thunglom said:

There are MANY foreigners living here - especially Brits who don't have sufficient or even any health insurance - once treated for a pre-exisiting disease insurance companies may then refuse future cover. Being a retiree this is a particularly acute pron=blem and one that potentially costs the Thai state money.

any idea why Brits in particular?

[david555]

Just now, mommysboy said:

immigrant- a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

 

So right and wrong.  

 

But certainly, we are not immigrants in the legal sense. Most of us have an extension of stay based on a non-immigrant visa which has elapsed.  Accordingly we have no citizen rights that count. 

 

 

As the original visa name it clearly .....non-immigrant visa    how much more could it be expressed !

wishful reading ain't go change the words on it .....

 

We are extended tourist nothing else , accept it 

 

 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Western tourism will never get to former levels, but Thailand won't give a toss.

This seems to be a common observation among members of the expat community. What has happened that will cause Western vacationers not to resume their visits to Thailand once Covid is subdued? Whatever the merits of expats' complaints may be, their reasons for their unhappiness with Thailand have little to do with what Westerners are looking for in a vacation experience.

[thaibook]

On 9/17/2021 at 8:14 AM, Artisi said:

Doubt the basic Thai gives a rats a rse about who owns the land, so long as they can survive from day to day - that's all that's on their mind. 

Not quite.  Many Thais have links to a village and a farm.  They may be in BKK some months of th  year but return to the farm when needed or when they cannot make ends meet in BKK.  What is important is that they can still work the farm, not necessarily that they own it.  In this sense ownership may not matter much.  However, will a foreigner buy land to leave it as rice fields he can rent out at 2000 baht a year?  Unlikely, so farming land will disappear.  Thais have seen this happen and are instinctively aware that if foreigners buy there will be a significant change.  I do doubt they think it through and are also caught by the thought that they will get a higher price if they sell to a foreigner (arn't all farang as rich as Croesus?).

 

The military see this.  Also Thai patriotism is based on the King and the land. If they become landless errant workers, no better than the immigrants from Burma and Cambodia, where will the Kingdom be?

 

No, the ban on foreigners from owning land will remain.  If you have a Thai wife then you should trust her sufficiently to have the land in her name.  If you don't then poor you.

   

[thaibook]

On 9/17/2021 at 9:47 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

If I were in charge of immigration, I would test everybody on Sines, Cosines, Secants, and Four-dimensional space.

the way to understand the Thai mind is to consider it from the perspective of quantum mechanics and that time is quantised and the uncertainty principle has a multiplicator factor in this country.  If all applicants had to demonstrate their appreciation of these facts there would be far less misunderstanding.

 

Incidentally I gather that if one becomes a permanent residetn or a subject one needs to sing he  Thai national anthem.  Which one, the national anthem or the Royal anthem?  I thin this is excellent and other countries should do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibook]

On 9/17/2021 at 4:16 PM, StevieAus said:

Before I studied Law I was an aircraft engineer with Qantas from 1974-1980 and regularly did the turn around checks on Thai.

There were never any issues I can recall with Thai and their MELs were always good.

The airlines we were concerned about included Pan Am and “ We will fix in Bombay” Air India just  to mention a couple.

Did you ever work on Ariana Afghan?  I flew them to Kabul in the mid 70s - interesting flight.

[Orinoco]

38 minutes ago, Cherrytreeview said:

Having read a number of your pompous posts, you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder regarding older expats and the UK.

I wonder is this because you have been living on your Thai teachers salary and realised you haven't accumulated enough wealth for a comfortable old age.

Unlike a lot of the guys you attempt to mock.

Many who have a UK state pension, work pension and income from other property/investments.

I think your assumption about what you will receive as a UK state pension is incorrect.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

Basically, you need 10 qualifying years of NI contributions to get anything.

In case you weren't aware, the UK state pension is frozen for UK expats in Thailand. Not a great result for anyone.

I have spent a very pleasant spring and summer in the UK and watched Thailand's monsoon season floods with amusement.

When it suits me, i intend to return to Thailand and split the year between their and the UK.

It's wonderful to have options.

His must be making voluntary national insurance  contributions. 

if he qualified to do that. most can

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Orinoco

[Old Croc]

In an effort to put this tiresome argument to bed I refer to this country's legislation.

 

Definition (Sections 1-5)

Immigration Act, B.E. 2522

Section 4

In this Act:

"Alien"   means any person who is not of Thai nationality under the nationality Act.

"Immigrant"   means any alien who enters the Kingdom.

 

 

Strictly speaking a person who enters another country, even for a very short time, is an immigrant. Although, other definitions refer to an immigrant as "a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence"

Australia changed the description of illegal immigrants to illegal non-citizens some years ago because of the connotations of the original word.

 

Like aliens, it is just a descriptive, and doesn't confer privilege beyond the conditions of the visa/extension granted. 

 

 

[thaibook]

21 hours ago, garyk said:

I sure wish America would enforce the laws for immigration. 

Low life Thais coming in. Don't learn the language. 

Take up hospital space, and drive the medical costs up.

 

Personally I wish they would just reciprocate in not allowing Thais to work. All Thais have to put up 800,000 baht in a US bank to stay for a yearly extension. If married they have to put up 40,000 baht in a bank. 

Basically mirror the laws in Thailand. 

This would basically drive out 75-80 percent of all Thai's from the US. 

 

I know of some wonderful Philippine nurses and people here that contribute to the economy.  Oddly enough I don't know of one Thai. They are lazy and sponge off of the system. 

 

"Thailand remains one if the most welcoming cointries for retirees in the world."

Hahahaha, are you kidding?

 

Many of the Thais in the US are robinhoods; they come in as students or tourists and simply do not go home.  There are so many illegal immigrants in the US and they are encouraged and protected by many Democrat politicians and voters that the federal authorities have an impossible job in locating and expelling them.  

 

[BE88]

39 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Western tourism will never get to former levels, but Thailand won't give a toss. The Junta is not interested in attracting finicky and complaining people from traditional western sources.  The emphasis now, and in the future, will be on Middle Eastern, Indian and obviously Chinese tourists all of which exist in torrents.

Have you read today's news about the fast train link from China to Vientiane opening in December and Thailand's plan to link it in to Bangkok before the end of the decade? 

 

We Westerners have understood this for a long time, however good luck with your Chinese and Indians to whom you will become slaves in your country, see Cambodia now.

 

[Old Croc]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What has happened that will cause Western vacationers not to resume their visits to Thailand once Covid is subdued?

Western financial decline and Thailands currency strength and rising prices.

Attitude of Sino-centric Thailand despot government.

[Sir Anthony Rumbold]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

There seems to be a resistance to being called "immigrants" - basically because of their own feeling of superiority - which is of course just a reluctance to admit they are being racist.

they are immigrants - bits of paper and how they do it may vary from country to country but in the end they are immigrants.

Their visa status says non-immigrant, it doesn't get much simpler or clear than that.

 

Immigrants on a non-immigrant visa? ????

[Old Croc]

4 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

We Westerners have understood this for a long time, however good luck with your Chinese and Indians to whom you will become slaves in your country, see Cambodia now.

 

My country is Australia, I have a temporary 12 month extension in Thailand.

[Old Croc]

1 minute ago, Sir Anthony Rumbold said:

Their visa status says non-immigrant, it doesn't get much simpler or clear than that.

 

Immigrants on a non-immigrant visa? ????

Who knew Thailand would have difficulty with semantics.

[Sir Anthony Rumbold]

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Who knew Thailand would have difficulty with semantics.

There's no difficulty, the definition could not be clearer, more understood or deliberate. 

 

Thailand defines our status, not the other way round.

 

We do not become immigrants in a country because we wish it to be so. 

 

If you wish to emigrate to Thailand you have to plan to get permanent residency, which for a man of suitable age, means working for three years and paying tax (among other requirements). The visa system is such that until we get permanent residency we remain transient.

 

Our visa status is what we are, to wit, 'temporary visitors for purposes other than tourism' is the definition of the non-immigrant visa type encapsulating retirement, marriage and other reasons for visiting here. 

[thaibook]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Many don't realize it but Thailand has made the citizenship process much easier than pre 2008. If married to a Thai, and working for 40k a month, the process is only 3 years and costs 5,000 baht. 

baht or USD?

[BE88]

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

My country is Australia, I have a temporary 12 month extension in Thailand.

What are you talking about the strength of Thailand's currency plummeting deeper every day.

I understand you think you are safe here in Thailand Australian men, your country is more worse now, but the Thailand is it also falters for expats, time will tell us.

 

[Cherrytreeview]

15 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

His must be making voluntary national insurance  contributions. 

if he qualified to do that. most can

 

You can pay up to 6 years in arrears.

It's approximately £750 to make up one year in arrear.

In view he's on 40k baht a month (£890), he would be spending half his annual salary.

Can non resident UK expats do that?

That assumes he's still working.

Do English teachers in Thai schools get enrolled in a teacher's pension scheme?

Many come to Thailand as backpackers in their early 20s, i wouldn't want to be living like one in my 50s.