Visa Extension: In the case of litigation or court proceedings

[mikasa]

Hi everyone.

This post is not intended to defame or accuse any person or state organization of anything. It is simply a last hope and attempt at receiving advice from a large community.

I come to you at my time of need. I have been in contact with Immigration Division 1, Immigration Suan Plu, Immigration Detention Centre, Thai Royal Police, various police stations, The Office of the Attorney-General, The Office of the Public Prosecutor, lawyers and more. So far I have not been able to get a definitive answer to the following two questions:

1) Do I need to apply for an extension based on litigation or court proceedings?
2) How does this affect my Non-Imm 'O' Visa based on marriage to a Thai Wife?

Background:

I am currently taking a Thai citizen to court for criminal offenses. As a result of this, I have been reported by this individual and others related to them to so many departments that I've lost count. All of the problems have been dealt with through a lot of hard work and effort over the last 3 years except for one, a false accusation of a Computer Crime offense.

I had my fingerprints taken as a part of the inquiry process and the case is still with the police. The Inquiry Official has attempted to prosecute but the case was sent back by the Public Prosecutor for it to be re-investigated.

The individual who I have a court case against has recently sent a letter to Immigration giving details relating to the Computer Crime charge and this resulted in an internal remark being written on the Immigration Division 1 system that my visa is not to be extended (despite living in Thailand for almost 10 years on a Non-Imm 'O' based on marriage). I have checked with the Immigration Detention Centre and my record is completely clean. The Inquiry Officer and the Public Prosecutor insist that they did not inform immigration and had no part in this. There were to be no restrictions at all.

I found out about this remark when I went to do my 90-day report at MTT and the officer seemed shocked by what she saw in the system. They refused to do the 90-day report and sent me to Immigration Division 1, Chaeng Wattana, to meet with staff at the relevant counter. The staff member stated that I had been Blacklisted, I was not permitted to extend my visa, and that I would have to pay Overstay if I did not get a Case Visa. I found out after this point that there was in fact no record of a Blacklisting or any restriction in the central Immigration system via the Immigration Detention Centre officers. I was also allowed to do my 90-day report as I complained to Division 1, Chaeng Wattana, that they were the ones refusing to do it, not me. MTT were very understanding and professional about the whole situation.

I am due to extend my visa as normal at the end of October 2021, so luckily I caught this fairly early. I want to extend as normal and receive a 1 year extension based on marriage. Everyone, including Suan Plu Immigration, believe that I should be able to do this but Immigration Division 1 at this counter are adamant that I must get a Case Visa. I have asked for the law giving these officers the right to do this and have received the following responses: Police Order 327/2557 and Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557. Neither of these orders give the right for the officer to refuse my extension based on being the spouse of a Thai national. In fact, both of these orders confirm that I meet the criteria for applying for an extension based on marriage. When questioned further, the only response I get is: "this is the process". When I attempt to consult higher level staff at Immigration, they simply refer me back to the same counter and the same individual who falsely told me that I was Blacklisted.

So, back to my original 2 questions with some added context:

1) Is anyone aware of any law that entitles Immigration staff to refuse to allow an extension based on marriage when the applicant meets all of the criteria, despite being simply accused of a crime which is still at the police stage?
2) If I do end up being forced to extend in this way, how would this affect my current Non-Imm 'O' visa? Would I simply be able to continue extending as normal after the Computer Crime case is dismissed (I'm 100% sure it will be if the legal process is actually followed)?

The only real suggestion I received is to try to apply and see what happens, which doesn't seem like such a great idea while I have the time to proceed through an official process to have the decision overturned before I apply.

Any suggestions or advice are very needed and welcome.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, mikasa said:

1) Do I need to apply for an extension based on litigation or court proceedings?
2) How does this affect my Non-Imm 'O' Visa based on marriage to a Thai Wife?

1. If you cannot apply for the extension of stay based upon marriage that is your only choice.

2. No effect at all. You could apply for the extension after the litigation is completed since the one for litigation is a extension of your non-o visa permit to stay you got when you used it to enter the country.

[mikasa]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. If you cannot apply for the extension of stay based upon marriage that is your only choice.

2. No effect at all. You could apply for the extension after the litigation is completed since the one for litigation is a extension of your non-o visa permit to stay you got when you used it to enter the country.

Thanks so much for the quick response! It's extremely helpful!

This whole situation seems crazy that a false accusation could result in this only because a private citizen sent a letter to immigration about me - no court order, no warrant, or anything else of the sort.

[BritTim]

Alongside everything else, I have an additional piece of advice. I would not recommend this unless your Thai adversary had already exhausted the measures available to try to harm you. It is now time to fight back! It seems this individual is fairly wealthy. You should engage a good lawyer, and launch a defamation case for the false Computer Crime allegation (and any other actions your lawyer thinks should be added). The defamation laws in Thailand are very strong and, unless your adversary is able to bribe the judge, you can expect a large settlement.

[GrandPapillon]

it's possible that some influential Thai can ask IO to put some kind of red notice on your system, officially it can never happen, unofficially, it happens a lot to farangs who <deleted> off the wrong people who have connections

 

seen it happen first hand to a friend of mine, luckily he had connections, and everything was sorted out and he was no long "red listed" in the immigration system, despite no court orders

 

be very careful in Thailand, even though the legal system is actually quite fair and well structured, and very good overall, it doesn't stop some people with connection to interfer with it 

 

you have to trust the Thai system, and eventually it works, but it might take a lot of time and money, and that's the main issue at the end

[BKK4]

I agree with the above. However also keep in mind the difference in outcomes if the computer crimes case against you actually moves to prosecution or not. Pleading guilty or being found guilty in court can result in detention, deportation, and blacklisting. However if the case receives a do not prosecute order, or if you win the case, then you can go back to your Non-O visa extension after the case (from the case visa extensions). I have seen people have problems after the case ends (if they are found guilty, even if it is a suspended sentence) of not being able to go back to the normal visa extension and being deported and blacklisted.
 

Yes the other suggestion is also good - fight back by having an experienced criminal lawyer sue them. This gives you some more leverage.  

[cape]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

. You should engage a good lawyer, and launch a defamation case for the false Computer Crime allegation

I have a case against a Thai citizen but the four lawyers i have tried take my money but protect the Thai. I won in court but no execution possible

[FritsSikkink]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

Alongside everything else, I have an additional piece of advice. I would not recommend this unless your Thai adversary had already exhausted the measures available to try to harm you. It is now time to fight back! It seems this individual is fairly wealthy. You should engage a good lawyer, and launch a defamation case for the false Computer Crime allegation (and any other actions your lawyer thinks should be added). The defamation laws in Thailand are very strong and, unless your adversary is able to bribe the judge, you can expect a large settlement.

I would do the same.

[Thingamabob]

Not a great idea for a farang, if you are a farang, to take a Thai to court in Thailand. Chances are you'll get a load of trouble. 

[BritTim]

12 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Not a great idea for a farang, if you are a farang, to take a Thai to court in Thailand. Chances are you'll get a load of trouble. 

I do not recommend initiating a conflict with a Thai. However, if a conflict already exists in which the Thai has already done their utmost to cause the most trouble possible, there is little to lose in fighting back. Foreigners do win defamation cases in Thailand, though you need to be very careful in your choice of lawyer. The only residual danger in retaliation is if the Thai decides to resort to physical violence which, regretfully, is a possibility.

[mikasa]

Thank you so much to everyone for your detailed advice. It's very much appreciated!

I think I'm going to escalate this matter to court regardless of whether I get my extension through marriage or not. It's not right that foreigners should have uncertainty over their ability to stay simply based on an outside party and private individual sending a letter to immigration staff. It's also not right that even the legal department for Immigration have been unable to show any evidence that the immigration officer has the right and ability to choose for a foreigner exactly which extension they can and should apply for when the foreigner meets the criteria as a legitimate applicant for other extensions. It is of course possible that I'm wrong and the officer does in fact have this right and is acting completely lawfully, but there's no way for me to know for sure as the department which is insisting on having a right to do this is not able to produce evidence of this right, so I must assume that no right exists.

Thanks again for all of the useful comments and advice.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, mikasa said:

Thank you so much to everyone for your detailed advice. It's very much appreciated!

I think I'm going to escalate this matter to court regardless of whether I get my extension through marriage or not. It's not right that foreigners should have uncertainty over their ability to stay simply based on an outside party and private individual sending a letter to immigration staff. It's also not right that even the legal department for Immigration have been unable to show any evidence that the immigration officer has the right and ability to choose for a foreigner exactly which extension they can and should apply for when the foreigner meets the criteria as a legitimate applicant for other extensions. It is of course possible that I'm wrong and the officer does in fact have this right and is acting completely lawfully, but there's no way for me to know for sure as the department which is insisting on having a right to do this is not able to produce evidence of this right, so I must assume that no right exists.

Thanks again for all of the useful comments and advice.

Good luck!

 

Technically, according to the law as written, the responsible official has the discretion to refuse any extension at any time for any reason, and does not need to justify the decision. In your case, the refusal will be abuse of discretion but, if the official's superior does not overrule, there is no standard way of appealing the decision. You might argue that the official is revoking your right to be in Thailand. That is appealable, and a good lawyer should know (1) how the process works; and (2) whether trying to use it in this way has any chance of success.

 

I hope I never end up in a conflict with the wrong Thai as you have done.