Every First Jab Will Be Sinovac Vaccine in October

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

So it's the old peer reviewed double blind study or nothing. I don't care.

No, it's paying attention to the latest available science based results, even in preliminary form at times:

 

How do China’s COVID vaccines fare against the Delta variant?

 

"A Brazilian preprint study published last week [August] tracked 61 million people in Brazil from January to June, comparing infection, hospitalization, and death rates between unvaccinated individuals and those who received Sinovac or AstraZeneca jabs.

 

The study found that people fully inoculated with Sinovac reduced their risk of infection by 54% and risk of death by 74% compared with unvaccinated populations.

 

Still, the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer more protection, reducing the risk of infection by 70% and the risk of death by 90%. Sinovac’s efficacy also waned in older populations, reducing the risk of death by only 35% in populations over 80."

 

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

 

All the available evidence re current vaccines and the Delta variant suggests:

 

--mRNA vaccines are at the top of the effectiveness scale

--the AZ vacine trails the mRNA vaccines

--and the Sinovac vaccine trails all of the above.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and the replies have been removed. 

 

Some troll posts and replies have been removed. 

[jerrymahoney]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

No, it's paying attention to the latest available science based results, even in preliminary form at times:

 

How do China’s COVID vaccines fare against the Delta variant?

 

"A Brazilian preprint study published last week [August] tracked 61 million people in Brazil from January to June, comparing infection, hospitalization, and death rates between unvaccinated individuals and those who received Sinovac or AstraZeneca jabs.

 

The study found that people fully inoculated with Sinovac reduced their risk of infection by 54% and risk of death by 74% compared with unvaccinated populations.

 

Still, the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer more protection, reducing the risk of infection by 70% and the risk of death by 90%. Sinovac’s efficacy also waned in older populations, reducing the risk of death by only 35% in populations over 80."

 

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

 

All the available evidence re current vaccines and the Delta variant suggests:

 

--mRNA vaccines are at the top of the effectiveness scale

--the AZ vacine trails the mRNA vaccines

--and the Sinovac vaccine trails all of the above.

 

 

OK then over 600,000 Thai medical workers from April to July 2021  received 2 shots of Sinovac and about 600 became infected with COVID or less than 1% -- and Delta first showed up in Thailand May 2021

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2021/09/08/฿4-25-billion-approved-for-12-million-more-sinovac-doses/

 

But to me the nitty gritty is that, even though you rightly claim that Sinovac trails all other vaccines on Delta variant measured variables:

 

BANGKOK September 8, 2021 — The government on Tuesday said it will spend 4.25 billion baht to buy 12 million more Sinovac vaccine doses for its “mix-and-match” vaccination program.

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2021/09/08/฿4-25-billion-approved-for-12-million-more-sinovac-doses/

 

or as some oin here might prefer the head line to read say:

 

The Thai government is going to go ahead and buy 12 million more doses of the "Highly Ineffective" Sinovac vaccine

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

OK then over 600,000 Thai medical workers from April to July 2021  received 2 shots of Sinovac and about 600 became infected with COVID or less than 1% -- and Delta first showed up in Thailand April 2021

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2021/09/08/฿4-25-billion-approved-for-12-million-more-sinovac-doses/

 

But to me the nitty gritty is that, even though you rightly claim that Sinovac trails all other vaccines on Delta variant measured variables:

 

BANGKOK September 8, 2021 — The government on Tuesday said it will spend 4.25 billion baht to buy 12 million more Sinovac vaccine doses for its “mix-and-match” vaccination program.

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2021/09/08/฿4-25-billion-approved-for-12-million-more-sinovac-doses/

 

 

 

 

 

Alpha was discovered early April not Delta, that was not detected in the community until late May. There were a couple of cases found in quarantined arrivals before that but not in the community.

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Alpha was discovered early April not Delta, that was not detected in the community until late May. There were a couple of cases found in quarantined arrivals before that but not in the community.

Yes as I referenced earlier from the BaPo Delta showed up in Laksi in May. And I corrected it this time as you can see I edited it 11 minutes and your helpful  post was 9 minutes ago.

Edited September 21, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[jimrod]

Where would we be without the experts on here.

Not medical ones, the Thai bashing ones.

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, jimrod said:

Where would we be without the experts on here.

Not medical ones, the Thai bashing ones.

Care to explain your comment to add to the conversation and topic. After all what is being discussed is the use of the vaccines they have purchased, the way they will use them as in Sinovac first with AZ second starting in October and then if that may or may not be prudent in order to keep the population safe.  Mixed vaccines are also not recognized for international travel by some countries which can and may produce problems leading to being revacinated with those they have approved and forcing folks into quarantine upon arrival at additional costs.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

That's the point, they could have a much better vaccine.  They chose an inferior vaccine long after it was common knowledge and long after better vaccines became available.

 

The opportunity and necessity of acquiring a better vaccine has already happened, but they have chosen Sinovac over better alternatives.

 

There is no excuse for continuing to order Sinovac over any other vaccine.

 

"Work with what you have" is just a smoke screen.  It doesn't apply here.  You don't get to use that rhetoric after deliberately getting yourself into a situation.

Do you mean to say that at this point they can get enough of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine to vaccinate everyone ,but they keep ordering the Cinovac? 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Gold Star said:

I had 2 friends already, each with 2 doses of Sinovac, in ICU due to Covid for 2 weeks. One almost didn't make it.

 

I have no friends that got ill with 2 doses Pfizer.   

 

Clearly I would wait for the proper vaccines, but that's just my experience.

It is unfortunate that your friends were part of the 25% of those vaccinated with the Sinovac who had to be hospitalized, but glad they were part of the 95% of those vaccinated with the Sinovac that got infected but did not die.   I am glad they were able to make a full recovery, if they had not been vaccinated with the Sinovak and had waited for a better vaccine that might not had been the case. 

    Clearly Pfizer is a superiors vaccine, but since vastly more people in Thailand have been vaccinated with the Sinovac rather than the Pfizer, and Sinovac's efficacy is lower than   Pfizer's,  I think you would agree that most of the breakthrough cases in a hospital would be that of Sinovac. 

  If equal number of people were vaccinated with the Sinovac and the Pfizer in Thailand, then If one is inclined to believe the research data, 26% of them should be of the Sinovac, and 4% of the Pfizer. 

   I don't disagree that Pfizer or Moderna are Superior to Sinovac. and that the Thai government should have got more of the first and less of the second, but at this point unless you know otherwise. I don't think the Thai government can get enough of the Pfizer and or the Moderna  to vaccinate the millions of unvaccinated in Thailand and get the country back on track in the next few months.

People are suffering out there, businesses are closing . lives are being ruined and aside from the covid sickness and the covid deaths , lives are being ruined economically. 

At this point , we need triage not recovery. once the patient is stabilized we can talk  about complete recovery. 

IMO given the limited resources the plan proposed is a good idea. 

[jimrod]

17 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Care to explain your comment to add to the conversation and topic. After all what is being discussed is the use of the vaccines they have purchased, the way they will use them as in Sinovac first with AZ second starting in October and then if that may or may not be prudent in order to keep the population safe.  Mixed vaccines are also not recognized for international travel by some countries which can and may produce problems leading to being revacinated with those they have approved and forcing folks into quarantine upon arrival at additional costs.

I'm not qualified to comment on the medical aspects of this decision. It's fairly clear that people will find what they want to find to bolster their opinion. I saw a comment stating that WHO had no problem with health authorities mixing vaccines. I believe Angela Merkel mixed vaccines. Is it just possible that Thailand is looking at mass vaccination in a bid to open up the country? Reduced cases look encouraging. No doubt that will be, in spite of, and not because of, the Thais.

After many years here, I feel fairly qualified in identifying Thai bashing, and I'm glad I'm not, and never will be, part of it. Constructive criticism is fine, and I'm not saying there isn't any here, but it comes at a price. We all know the saying about a glass being half full or half empty. Some here either state the glass is empty or the glass isn't even there in the first place.

[thailand49]

It is a shame the Thai leaders don't have the fortitude or balls to say to the CCP, thanks but enough is enough instead the leaders double and triple down on buying a vaccine that isn't popular with the locals only with the leaders!  Their mix and match method is just their inability to get their head out of the CCP butts.  And they continue to claim we care about our people!

[Venom]

17 hours ago, tonray said:

At Central Westgate everyday....the line is queued on 3 floors for SinoVac...whether the Thais you know will not get it is inconsequential...obviously a majority of Thais are lining up in droves for the shot and a shot at normalcy.

Personally, I try to avoid droves of people. 

[Virt]

Maybe Thailand should contact Denmark and see if DK want to sell their 7 million surplus doses of J&J if Thailand still need vaccines.

 

Denmark made a contract for 7 mill doses a long time ago which apperantly now are arriving according to the newspapers here,

but we never started using J&J in the official program, so they are of no use for DK.

 

I hope the danish politicians act responsible and either give or sell those doses to other countries instead of letting them rot in the fridge.

[Mickeem]

6 hours ago, Venom said:

On 9/21/2021 at 12:32 AM, tonray said:

At Central Westgate everyday....the line is queued on 3 floors for SinoVac...whether the Thais you know will not get it is inconsequential...obviously a majority of Thais are lining up in droves for the shot and a shot at normalcy.

Personally, I try to avoid droves of people. 

I asked a lady friend today why she did not go to get vaccinated and got the same answer

too many crowds ..

 

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Mickeem said:

I asked a lady friend today why she did not go to get vaccinated and got the same answer

too many crowds ..

 

 

 

 

 

I have asked a few Thai ladies who are working in Pattaya in close contact to people, Visa office, restaurant, massage for eg. Many are not vaccinated which concerns and surprises me. 

[superal]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I have asked a few Thai ladies who are working in Pattaya in close contact to people, Visa office, restaurant, massage for eg. Many are not vaccinated which concerns and surprises me. 

Thais are not alone cos I know quite a few farangs who do not trust any of the vaccines and think the pandemic is a conspiracy and / of a money maker by the global pharmacy companies .

[superal]

   The preferred first jab being sinovac must have been made because it is readily available in big numbers ,  is easily stored in normal fridges  and is WHO approved , also recognised by 50 other countries . My quick Google search tells me that the Pfizer vaccine is around $20 a jab , AZ $4 but the only price I could find for the sinovac was a staggering $60 in China , however it seems thar vaccine prices are determined by the wealth of the country . Within the 50 countries below there are few big players and so how will Thai vaccine roll out be seen/ approved by the big boys ?

Albania	Finland	Paraguay
Armenia	Georgia	Philippines
Austria	Greece	Serbia
Azerbaijan	Hong Kong	South Africa
Bangladesh	Iceland	Spain
Brazil	Indonesia	Sri Lanka
Cambodia	Kazakhstan	Sweden
Cape Verde	Kyrgyzstan	Switzerland
Chile	Laos	Tajikistan
China	Macedonia	Thailand
Colombia	Malaysia	Togo
Cyprus	Mexico	Tunisia
Dominican Republic	Nepal	Turkey
East Timor	Netherlands	Ukraine
Ecuador	Oman	Uruguay
Egypt	Pakistan	Zimbabwe
El Salvador