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Crime Unt Punishment I:

Death Penalty? 27 members have voted

  1. 1. Death Penalty

    • Yes
      32%
      8
    • No
      56%
      14
    • Not Sure
      12%
      3

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Featured Replies

Something for Robski to sink his teeth into, LOL.

Okay, do you? Why or why not?

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Not again Bops!!! We've had this one a hundred and two times already!!!

I voted not sure, but what I really mean is, no, but yes, but no :o

I do agree with it, but only in circumstances where evidence is irrefutable.

If evidence is circumstancial and not overwhelming then I think custodial sentences must be passed.

I think the death penalty was revoked in the UK because of miscarriages of justice,

and in the US and South Africa there are questions over the use of the death penalty also beacuse of miscarriages of justice.

I think for psychopathic repeat offenders, murderers, war criminals, sex offenders and serial rapists the death penalty would be a justifiable solution.

Why try to rehabilitate them or spend money locking them up for the rest of their lives, when they have caused such misery to others and serve no purpose to society. For many of the above types jail is not a deterrent, perhaps the loss of their life may make them consider their actions.

  • Author
Not again Bops!!! We've had this one a hundred and two times already!!!

It's been awhile and there are new faces in Bedlam. Why not start here and see what threads can be spawned from it?

I do agree with it, but only in circumstances where evidence is irrefutable.

If evidence is circumstancial and not overwhelming then I think custodial sentences must be passed.

I think the death penalty was revoked in the UK because of miscarriages of justice,

and in the US and South Africa there are questions over the use of the death penalty also beacuse of miscarriages of justice.

Surely not, at least in the U.K, you are deemed innocent until proven guilty and you must be found guilty only after debate and ,'beyond reasonable doubt'.

If circumstantial evidence is shown to be used, we are entering a dangerous game of which freedom will be the only loser and anarchy will rule supreme.

Although I believe in Scotland, there is a verdict of, ' Not proven'. which, I again believe doesn't mean you are guilty, but they can't prove your innocence. But they can't lock you up over it.

The counter argument to the Death Penalty, is when you also get a corrupt police force and for instance, the whole of the west midland serious crime squad, that had to be disbanded, by I think Chief Constable Geoffrey Dear, because the public had lost confidence in them to such a degree that they couldn't convict anybody.

What price the death penalty then, no second chances after the black cap has been donned.

Moss

No. I can't live with the idea of even one wrongly convicted person being executed.

However, I do believe "life imprisonment" should mean "for life". No parole. No time off for good behaviour.

  • Author
No. I can't live with the idea of even one wrongly convicted person being executed.

However, I do believe "life imprisonment" should mean "for life". No parole. No time off for good behaviour.

How many lifers can a system handle? America has many such people and many states talk yet again of building more prisons. How many prisons can a country hold?

kill kill kill kill kill kill kill....and then kill some more....I believe in the death penalty for everyone....everyone must die....even you must die (me too)

I especially support the death penalty for this thread.

  • Author
kill kill kill kill kill kill kill....and then kill some more....I believe in the death penalty for everyone....everyone must die....even you must die (me too)

I especially support the death penalty for this thread.

Sorry, Chownah, I am just trying to get some brain cells of the couch here. :o

kill kill kill kill kill kill kill....and then kill some more....I believe in the death penalty for everyone....everyone must die....even you must die (me too)

I especially support the death penalty for this thread.

Sorry, Chownah, I am just trying to get some brain cells of the couch here. :o

Yeah, you're right....I just sort of got carried away...I think it is spill over from the creative side thread. I take it back...I DON'T support the death penalty for this thread....a very long sentence would be sufficient.

Sorry,

Chownah

  • Author
kill kill kill kill kill kill kill....and then kill some more....I believe in the death penalty for everyone....everyone must die....even you must die (me too)

I especially support the death penalty for this thread.

Sorry, Chownah, I am just trying to get some brain cells of the couch here. :D

Yeah, you're right....I just sort of got carried away...I think it is spill over from the creative side thread. I take it back...I DON'T support the death penalty for this thread....a very long sentence would be sufficient.

Sorry,

Chownah

Ba Dum Ching!!! He'll be here all week folks. :o

I think a murderer or rapist deserves to die.

I have seen too many wrongful convictions though, so my answer is No.

What idiot ever took "...at hard labour" out of the penal code?

My opinions on many subjects have been subject to change over the years.

But on this one it never has.

No.... 100% against it.

It's better for 100 guilty men to walk free than for 1 innocent be put to death.

I'm sure it was mentioned earlier, life imprisonment should mean just that and it should be a punishment, not a holiday.

I also regard a death sentence of getting off lightly for some.

It's better for 100 guilty men to walk free than for 1 innocent be put to death.

Surely you can't mean that Thaddeus, it's not right for one innocent to be sentenced to death, but for a hundred guilty to walk free?

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

That must be why the US has such a lower capital crime rate than Canada, Australia, or Western Europe. :o

I do mean it Rob, if you read it the right way. I'm not saying that you should let somebody who is bang to rights go, lock them up by all means, but there have been more than a couple of cases world wide were somebody who had a staggering amount of evidence against them later to be found totally innocent, you can't free an innocent man once he has been executed.

And, no, I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrent, there are some nut-jobs out there that would view it as a reward..... some people are that sick and twisted.

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

That must be why the US has such a lower capital crime rate than Canada, Australia, or Western Europe. :o

I think that has more to do with the easy availability of guns and drugs. Really.

I do mean it Rob, if you read it the right way. I'm not saying that you should let somebody who is bang to rights go, lock them up by all means, but there have been more than a couple of cases world wide were somebody who had a staggering amount of evidence against them later to be found totally innocent, you can't free an innocent man once he has been executed.

And, no, I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrent, there are some nut-jobs out there that would view it as a reward..... some people are that sick and twisted.

Therein lies the problem, proving the guilt of the accused. If it is beyond reasonable doubt for extreme offences, do it, otherwise yes, lock them up.

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

That must be why the US has such a lower capital crime rate than Canada, Australia, or Western Europe. :o

I think that has more to do with the easy availability of guns and drugs. Really.

I do mean it Rob, if you read it the right way. I'm not saying that you should let somebody who is bang to rights go, lock them up by all means, but there have been more than a couple of cases world wide were somebody who had a staggering amount of evidence against them later to be found totally innocent, you can't free an innocent man once he has been executed.

And, no, I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrent, there are some nut-jobs out there that would view it as a reward..... some people are that sick and twisted.

Therein lies the problem, proving the guilt of the accused. If it is beyond reasonable doubt for extreme offences, do it, otherwise yes, lock them up.

I think that the custom in the US is that if it is not beyond a reasonable doubt then they are declared INNOCENT and they let them go free and not lock them up at all.

It's better for 100 guilty men to walk free than for 1 innocent be put to death.

Surely you can't mean that Thaddeus, it's not right for one innocent to be sentenced to death, but for a hundred guilty to walk free?

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

Agree with Thaddy on this. "Beyond reasonable doubt" isn't good enough for the death penalty, IMO. "With absolute certainty" is the minimum, and who can say that? As Mossfin said, there are always risks of corruption in the police force (of whatever country). Life imprisonment, no parole & no nice facilities.

Thaibebop - I don't know how you pay for it. Sorry. Doesn't the US have private prisons run as businesses, now? What's their track records like re security, profitability etc? Maybe that's the way to go.

I think that the custom in the US is that if it is not beyond a reasonable doubt then they are declared INNOCENT and they let them go free and not lock them up at all.

I think that it is the custom in the US that if you can not afford a good lawyer you are probably guilty. If you can you are probably innocent. Anybody remember O J Simpson ? I am not picking on the US here , this is probably true in many jurisdictions.

I did read , a while ago , of a group of US lawyers who were reopening cases where people had been imprisoned for crimes such as rape/murder (and some were on death row) and modern DNA technology was able to prove their innocence.

I voted "not sure".

On the one hand capital punishment renders it hard to correct an error of justice.

On the other hand life imprisonment , in most jurisdictions , is a fate worse than death.

I saw a piece on the BBC where Italian lifers are petitioning their government to reinstate the death penalty because they did not consider their existence bearable.

In parting I note the "life imprisonment is too good for them" brigade. Some of them (in this and similar threads) can be quite vehement. I sometimes wonder if they are sick f*cks who have not yet committed a crime.

I don’t agree with the death penalty on a number of counts. Foremost and primarily because the Justice System is fallible – The death sentence is by nature irreversible, and irreversible punishment on a judgment which is fallible is fundamentally unjust.

At another level a huge percentage of the crimes that ‘traditionally’ warrant the death sentence are committed within close relationships and families. Executing the perpetrator in these cases may have far reaching negative impacts of the whole family.

I also think we should learn something from the many victims of serious crime who only come to terms with their crime when they forgive their attacker. That is not to say that we should all be required to forgive, but it does say something about un explored options for helping the victims.

And then there is the mountain of evidence that indicates having a death sentence doesn’t actually reduce crime.

That is not to say I don't agree with hard justice.

I absolutely believe that its high time that Pain, Fear and Humiliation should not be reserved for the vicitims of crime and that punishment should be as swift as is crime. Non of this taking months for a criminal to come to terms with gradual justice.

And I ABSOLUTELY believe we need to learn something from the Jesuits.

"Give me a child to the age of seven and I will show you the man"

It's no good dealing with violent adults, if we ignore the chance to sort their behaviour out as it forms in their childhood.

/rant

I think that the custom in the US is that if it is not beyond a reasonable doubt then they are declared INNOCENT and they let them go free and not lock them up at all.

I think that it is the custom in the US that if you can not afford a good lawyer you are probably guilty. If you can you are probably innocent. Anybody remember O J Simpson ? I am not picking on the US here , this is probably true in many jurisdictions.

I did read , a while ago , of a group of US lawyers who were reopening cases where people had been imprisoned for crimes such as rape/murder (and some were on death row) and modern DNA technology was able to prove their innocence.

I voted "not sure".

On the one hand capital punishment renders it hard to correct an error of justice.

On the other hand life imprisonment , in most jurisdictions , is a fate worse than death.

I saw a piece on the BBC where Italian lifers are petitioning their government to reinstate the death penalty because they did not consider their existence bearable.

In parting I note the "life imprisonment is too good for them" brigade. Some of them (in this and similar threads) can be quite vehement. I sometimes wonder if they are sick f*cks who have not yet committed a crime.

Actually, it's a couple of OJ's lawyers that started that campaign, with great and disturbing success:

http://www.observer.com/node/48892

I can't support the death penalty, but I wouldn't mind if prisons for long term convicts were on remote desert islands.

Some, just can't let it go:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1105/p02s02-usju.html

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

That must be why the US has such a lower capital crime rate than Canada, Australia, or Western Europe. :D

I think that has more to do with the easy availability of guns and drugs. Really.

You really need to come here to understand availability of drugs. :o

No shortage of guns either. We just tend to aim them at things that will later prove delicious.

Guns? In Canada? I thought they just used mulching machines to make mince meat.

How do they kill animals on the organic farms? Talk to them in soft tones, play Beethoven and then apologise for what they are going to do? Sounds very Canadian.

One clean shot through the lungs and heart, ain't it CV? Slit the throat to bleed it, take out the guts and carry it home to carve it up.

????? First you need to polarize your 'targets', sell them drugs and guns and they'll do the rest for you. The US are world leaders but the rest of the world is catching up fast.

Actually, our murder rate, and most other countries' are declining.

Jet, unless you are trying to preserve a rack, I preferred to go for a head shot. Less adrenal response and a correspondingly lower level of "wild taste". Besides, some weirdos like to eat those parts, and its bad form to have a guest chip a tooth on a mangled .270 round in the left ventricle.

Actually, our murder rate, and most other countries' are declining.

Jet, unless you are trying to preserve a rack, I preferred to go for a head shot.

Rope and tie it .... then stick it in an electric chair ..... everybody happy then :o

  • Author
It's better for 100 guilty men to walk free than for 1 innocent be put to death.

Surely you can't mean that Thaddeus, it's not right for one innocent to be sentenced to death, but for a hundred guilty to walk free?

I think if a persons guilt can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt then the death sentence is not only justified, but would also be an effective deterrent.

Agree with Thaddy on this. "Beyond reasonable doubt" isn't good enough for the death penalty, IMO. "With absolute certainty" is the minimum, and who can say that? As Mossfin said, there are always risks of corruption in the police force (of whatever country). Life imprisonment, no parole & no nice facilities.

Thaibebop - I don't know how you pay for it. Sorry. Doesn't the US have private prisons run as businesses, now? What's their track records like re security, profitability etc? Maybe that's the way to go.

Corporate prisons..... :o .....oh that makes my skin crawl double time!! I am not sure if we do, I wouldn't be surprised though. I am sure some Americans view the jobs like that, LOL!

  • Author

Well, it seems so far people are againt the death penalty. So, I think another important question is how we punish criminals? Let's face it, most of us thin that sitting in a cell for 10 years and getting to read books, watch cable and have gay sex is to good for a person who raped and killed a child. So, if we don't kill them, what do we do with them?

This leads into another great debate, punishment vs. reform, which do you support more?

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