Banking crisis?

[darksidedog]

There have been quite a lot of reports of late of banking problems where accounts are cleaned out by multiple small deductions and the banks are supposed to be aware of the danger and on high alert.

A very good friend of mine I have known here over a dozen years has just had around 500,000 cleared out of his account in such a manner over a two week period. The individual amounts were insufficient to send him an sms each time but accumulated. Lots of them.

He gets an army pension once a month, and withdraws 40K a month at ATM on a single day and has done so for as long as I have known him. Only account activity.

The bank did not seem to notice any of the multiple occasions of suspicious activity, even though "on alert for fraud" and allowed him to be cleaned out, through the very process plaguing the country of late, and for which they were supposed to be looking for.

His branch unfortunately is the same branch where I hold my account with my immigration 800k.

The staff have been apathetic as to giving any information, help or reassurance.

On Friday when after 3 weeks of asking when he was getting his money back without any explanation was going on, which he publicly proclaimed in the bank in pretty much perfect Thai was a disgrace, they responded by having him arrested and threatened with criminal defamation.

Not reassuring to hear as a fellow customer, who but there but for the grace of God go I.

I know lots of Thais have been caught up and seem to largely be being refunded where the activity is obviously fraudulent.

I am interested to know the experiences of other farang who have had anything similar happen and the response they have had.

 

 

[Kinnock]

K Bank credit card, series of small deductions all under 100 THB.  Bank alerted me and cancelled the card.  After I called them in response to the alert, they sent me a new card and emailed a claim form.

 

Money refunded in about a month.  No complaints about the actions of the bank,  but there does seem to be a widesoread issue.

 

I've heard of three similar cases from Thai friends.

[clivebaxter]

OP give us a clue which bank and where

[darksidedog]

46 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

OP give us a clue which bank and where

Tough that given the defamation laws.

But Pattaya. Soi Kaonoi, not far from the railway and one you would expect to have very high standards.

So its not the Government savings bank which is the first after the railway.

Blue could be a clue.

[talahtnut]

Check monthly statements, I found a ten pound irregularity,

went to bank in person and questioned a teller, she said 'oh thats

a mistake, everyones got that'.

I wonder how many they caught?

[moogradod]

45 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Check monthly statements, I found a ten pound irregularity,

went to bank in person and questioned a teller, she said 'oh thats

a mistake, everyones got that'.

I wonder how many they caught?

May I ask what you exactly mean by "monthly statements" ? You mention a ten pound irregularity. But we are in Thailand, should be THB or is this not visible in the Thai bank book ?

 

And "this mistake that everybody got" - is this a bank issue or an issue of the sender of money to you ?

 

We have quite a number of accounts in different banks, but none with electronic banking enabled. Do these "occurences" happen as well when you only have a debit or credit card or does this happen online only ?

[couchpotato]

A very good friend of mine I have known here over a dozen years has just had around 500,000 cleared out of his account in such a manner over a two week period. 

The individual amounts were insufficient to send him an sms each time but accumulated

 

Sorry this is a fabricated story or the guy is lying.

You do realise that 500k over a 14 day period, is 35,700 baht a day, and we are expected to believe nobody noticed it, or the bank wouldn't investigate big sums like that, and that 35k a day is to small of an amount to send an SMS. 

Come on....????

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by couchpotato

[dj230]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

Tough that given the defamation laws.

But Pattaya. Soi Kaonoi, not far from the railway and one you would expect to have very high standards.

So its not the Government savings bank which is the first after the railway.

Blue could be a clue.

how do they prosecute an anonymous forum user for defamation?

 

Also hypothetically, lets say the "friend" withdrew the money himself, knowing that this "fraudulent" activity was happening and tried to replicate it to get money from the bank, how would the bank know whether the "friend" withdrew his own money in small amounts to then "report" it as fraud and get his money back?

 

The bank needs to investigate this, I highly doubt they'll just "refund" someone 500,000 baht. 

Was the money withdrawn through payments/online or ATM/cash? Was it through an online bank account, card, etc. the bank should be able to tell, I'm quite curious, if you know, please share.

 

If it was a card/ATM was a pin required? 

 

Im new to Thailand so I am curious the what the protocol is in Thailand

 

10 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

A very good friend of mine I have known here over a dozen years has just had around 500,000 cleared out of his account in such a manner over a two week period. 

 

Sorry this is a fabricated story or the guy is lying.

You do realise that 500k over a 14 day period, is 35,700 baht a day, and we are expected to believe nobody noticed it, or the bank wouldn't investigate big sums like that.

Unbelieveable.

 

Kind of interesting that the friend says he regularly withdraws 40k baht a day once a month, what a coincidence for the fraudulent activity to be just about the same amount as the amount he's been withdrawing regularly. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by dj230

[couchpotato]

24 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

A very good friend of mine I have known here over a dozen years has just had around 500,000 cleared out of his account in such a manner over a two week period. 

The individual amounts were insufficient to send him an sms each time but accumulated

 

Sorry this is a fabricated story or the guy is lying.

You do realise that 500k over a 14 day period, is 35,700 baht a day, and we are expected to believe nobody noticed it, or the bank wouldn't investigate big sums like that, and that 35k a day is to small of an amount to send an SMS. 

Come on....????

 

And even if it was multiple small deductions over a day (24 hours), that would be 24.79 baht every minute for 24 hours..  ie: 1440 deductions per day, and this went on for 2 weeks....Come on..

Edited November 14, 2021 by couchpotato

[KarenBravo]

Whoops! Misread the thread title.

Bonking Crisis grabbed my attention..........

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, couchpotato said:

A very good friend of mine I have known here over a dozen years has just had around 500,000 cleared out of his account in such a manner over a two week period. 

The individual amounts were insufficient to send him an sms each time but accumulated

 

Sorry this is a fabricated story or the guy is lying.

You do realise that 500k over a 14 day period, is 35,700 baht a day, and we are expected to believe nobody noticed it, or the bank wouldn't investigate big sums like that, and that 35k a day is to small of an amount to send an SMS. 

Come on....????

 

Interesting point, sounds more like something a thai girlfriend would do

[darksidedog]

To answer those above questioning this, every transaction went to one of numerous overseas accounts.

8 hours ago, dj230 said:

Kind of interesting that the friend says he regularly withdraws 40k baht a day once a month, what a coincidence for the fraudulent activity to be just about the same amount as the amount he's been withdrawing regularly. 

Not sure what you are on about. He takes out 40K once a month. 500,000 went missing, not the same amounts at all.

 

8 hours ago, couchpotato said:

Sorry this is a fabricated story or the guy is lying.

I am a moderator, I do not print fabricated stories. I have seen the bank book. Once a month for years 2 X 20K cash withdrawn, nothing else. Then a few weeks back hundreds of payments to foreign accounts which continued until the account was empty.

My mate is a lovely guy and honest as the day is long, though not smart enough to commit cyber crime.

My biggest concern is the attitude of the bank. Really couldn't care less. Didn't spot unusual activity, which would have has a UK account frozen in no time.

[lkn]

12 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Then a few weeks back hundreds of payments to foreign accounts which continued until the account was empty

Foreign accounts? That sounds even more strange, because I don’t think I can even do an international transfer without going to my bank with tons of documentation.

 

There used to be an international transfer in my netbank, but last I checked, it was gone.

[dj230]

22 hours ago, darksidedog said:

To answer those above questioning this, every transaction went to one of numerous overseas accounts.

Not sure what you are on about. He takes out 40K once a month. 500,000 went missing, not the same amounts at all.

 

I am a moderator, I do not print fabricated stories. I have seen the bank book. Once a month for years 2 X 20K cash withdrawn, nothing else. Then a few weeks back hundreds of payments to foreign accounts which continued until the account was empty.

My mate is a lovely guy and honest as the day is long, though not smart enough to commit cyber crime.

My biggest concern is the attitude of the bank. Really couldn't care less. Didn't spot unusual activity, which would have has a UK account frozen in no time.

fair enough, 

I will say though, it's a bit of a large amount of money for the bank to just refund. It just sounds like there's a bit more to the story than being told. 

[arick]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:59 PM, Kinnock said:

K Bank credit card, series of small deductions all under 100 THB.  Bank alerted me and cancelled the card.  After I called them in response to the alert, they sent me a new card and emailed a claim form.

 

Money refunded in about a month.  No complaints about the actions of the bank,  but there does seem to be a widesoread issue.

 

I've heard of three similar cases from Thai friends.

Same thing with me 

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, lkn said:

Foreign accounts? That sounds even more strange, because I don’t think I can even do an international transfer without going to my bank with tons of documentation.

Skype has no problem deducting just over $8 amounts from my TMB account every month.

And no notification to me either, for this legitimate withdrawal.

[rwill]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Skype has no problem deducting just over $8 amounts from my TMB account every month.

And no notification to me either, for this legitimate withdrawal.

You should be able to change the amount allowed before being notified.  Change it to 1 baht if you want.  I think most banks by default set the reporting limit to 500 baht and over.

[blackprince]

The moral of this story is to pay the tiny fee for the sms service.

 

These notify you immediately of any movements in or out, even of tiny adjustments of a few baht which are incurrred due to forex adjustments for online international payments.

[Nip]

23 hours ago, darksidedog said:

To answer those above questioning this, every transaction went to one of numerous overseas accounts.

Not sure what you are on about. He takes out 40K once a month. 500,000 went missing, not the same amounts at all.

 

I am a moderator, I do not print fabricated stories. I have seen the bank book. Once a month for years 2 X 20K cash withdrawn, nothing else. Then a few weeks back hundreds of payments to foreign accounts which continued until the account was empty.

My mate is a lovely guy and honest as the day is long, though not smart enough to commit cyber crime.

My biggest concern is the attitude of the bank. Really couldn't care less. Didn't spot unusual activity, which would have has a UK account frozen in no time.

I find it very hard to understand how all this bank activity wasn't noticed. The instant I insert my ATM card or open my SCB app my phone receives an SMS and I receive an email. At least once a day I do a quick balnce check. Its great that the Pope in Rome and moderators in BKK don't err. I gest but you didn't. 

[scubascuba3]

Sounds like others were probably effected, for a large amount like 500k I'd probably put a post on Facebook to see if others effected, just keep it factual, then get a lawyer involved for a letter to bank, a few thousand, if you don't do that you are on your own and the bank can just shrug their shoulders

 

[Speedhump]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:43 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Interesting point, sounds more like something a thai girlfriend would do

Giving your PIN to a Thai girlfriend shows a strong masochistic personality trait. 

[worrab]

The other day I went into my local Bangkok Bank to arrange the statements ready for my extension of stay application. She put my account book, which is only for the 800,000k amount but always has a bit more to allow for bank charges etc, through for an update and gave it back to me. There had been an interest payment and tax paid on it. This distracted us as only farangs pay tax on interest and it was not until a couple of days later I noted there had been a number of withdrawals. 7 in total spread over 2 days but only for paltry amounts between 33 and 36 baht. I went back to the Bank and pointed this out and immediately she knew what had happened.

Apparently these hackers only go for small amounts so as to not alert the banks but luckily the banks are now aware of this and stopped my card after the 7th transaction. Many people, she was telling me, had numerous small transactions, 20 or 30, like this, then multiply that by all the Thai banks and very large sums of money were accumulated by the gang.

I have been reassured that this problem with security has been resolved. I was given a new card and the money is being repaid to that account. 

I will just add to this that I have a SMS alert on the other account but not this one for Immigration. Costs would be 30 baht a month and that will alert for even a withdrawal of 1 baht!! Worth doing I reckon.

Edited November 16, 2021 by worrab
Add details

[Caldera]

As a first measure, banks should be forced to send SMS notifications regardless of how small the amount is. If there are many small transactions, they could send a single SMS to summarize them to keep the cost in check. Also, their fraud detection systems seem to be sorely lacking, if they cannot even detect what was described in the OP.

 

Realistically, only the regulator is in a position to make them get their act together. That something is clearly very wrong cannot be denied anymore. As customers, all we can do is monitoring our account activity very carefully. Easy enough to do with the apps if you make it a habit.

[snowgard]

I not understand that people who live long time in Thailand never learn how things run here.

 

If someone stole my money from my bank account, I report it immedialy to the police.

If the bank who I (with witnesses) also informed about this crime not react, I will inform the press.

 

After this everything will run smooth and easy.

 

BUT I HAVE TO REPORT IT TO THE POLICE BECAUSE IT'S MY BANK ACCOUNT AND MY MONEY. 

I am also sure the bank will have informed me about this. This is the same procedere as in the most countries.

 

 

[Stevey]

Friend of mine here recently had all his 6m life savings stolen by his wife as he was retiring. Even took his last 3month trip money as that got paid into the same account she had accessed. This account was in his name but he periodically gave the ATM card to his wife if he went on long trips where he wouldn’t be able to give her money easily due to internet at sea etc. He had no internet banking set up and on one day he had his ATM card swallowed he says he just thought he would forget about it and now just decided to leave the account sitting with his savings. What had happened, I’m told, is she had somehow by obtaining his passport copy had opened internet banking at the ‘ ATM ‘ ? and then got the App and the place all her contacts details on the account. She then proceeded to send 20k to an account which we believe to hers or maybe some gambling enterprise. When he got back from that last trip an they headed to immigration she broke the news that she had stolen all his money and that he didn’t have enough for the visa. She’d also had the money for his final 3 month trip he’d just completed 25kUS if I remember correctly. Now on top of that all the land vehicles etc that had been accumulated over the marriage had been unknown to him been ‘ hocked ‘ ‘ in the shop’ placed as security with friends who loaned her large amounts of more money she had lost probably to gambling , but who knows with this lot, so that’s all gone. This has all got to be reimbursed to the shops, banks and the friends and family member who have been dragged into the saga. It’s amazing here how people will borrow money from friends who will for a little interest for themselves the borrow that money from someone else, only to be left holding the bill themselves at the end. In the case of one friend who lent money says to anyone in the village that’ll listen that she’s owed 5m Baht ????.  Now what’s this got to do with banks you may ask ? Well my girlfriend when I suggested that my friends wife must have had help from someone at the bank because she is not that adept with technology to carry the fraud out single handedly immediately agreed and gave me the impression that the banks are not as trustworthy and open to recourse as they are are in say the UK Moral maybe is protect yourself from your loved ones and the bank.

[david555]

4 hours ago, blackprince said:

The moral of this story is to pay the tiny fee for the sms service.

 

These notify you immediately of any movements in or out, even of tiny adjustments of a few baht which are incurrred due to forex adjustments for online international payments.

KK alert Happens instant , when taking the bills out ATM the beep goes already on my smartphone , same when buying with card in shop ....

beep-beep !

Edited November 16, 2021 by david555

[DBath]

On 11/14/2021 at 6:06 PM, couchpotato said:

A very good friend of mine I have known here over a dozen years has just had around 500,000 cleared out of his account in such a manner over a two week period. 

The individual amounts were insufficient to send him an sms each time but accumulated

 

Sorry this is a fabricated story or the guy is lying.

You do realise that 500k over a 14 day period, is 35,700 baht a day, and we are expected to believe nobody noticed it, or the bank wouldn't investigate big sums like that, and that 35k a day is to small of an amount to send an SMS. 

Come on....????

 

There’s one or more ridiculous skeptic on almost every thread. You do realize, in your thorough and supreme analysis, the OP is a moderator on this forum and quite unlikely to make up such a story. 
 

Probably just one minor detail you happened to overlook. 
 

Come on, man!

[DBath]

5 hours ago, dj230 said:

3 hours ago, worrab said:

The other day I went into my local Bangkok Bank to arrange the statements ready for my extension of stay application. She put my account book, which is only for the 800,000k amount but always has a bit more to allow for bank charges etc, through for an update and gave it back to me. There had been an interest payment and tax paid on it. This distracted us as only farangs pay tax on interest and it was not until a couple of days later I noted there had been a number of withdrawals. 7 in total spread over 2 days but only for paltry amounts between 33 and 36 baht. I went back to the Bank and pointed this out and immediately she knew what had happened.

Apparently these hackers only go for small amounts so as to not alert the banks but luckily the banks are now aware of this and stopped my card after the 7th transaction. Many people, she was telling me, had numerous small transactions, 20 or 30, like this, then multiply that by all the Thai banks and very large sums of money were accumulated by the gang.

I have been reassured that this problem with security has been resolved. I was given a new card and the money is being repaid to that account. 

I will just add to this that I have a SMS alert on the other account but not this one for Immigration. Costs would be 30 baht a month and that will alert for even a withdrawal of 1 baht!! Worth doing I reckon.

It probably is worth doing, but what kind of bank charges for something like this?
 

The cost of administering to them is minuscule compared to the fraud prevention benefits they reap. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by DBath

[NoshowJones]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:34 PM, clivebaxter said:

OP give us a clue which bank and where

Thank goodness I keep the bulk of my money in my UK bank, hand over 800.000 to my bank for retirement extns?? I don't think so.

[chilly07]

Have set all my accounts to zero including transfers and frozen all my cards and have sms notifications on all transactions.

Recommend everyone does the same.

Only problem is remembering to reverse when needing to make a transaction.

 

. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by chilly07