The definition of 'fully vaccinated' is changing to three Covid-19 doses

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/17/world/coronavirus-newsletter-intl-17-11-21/index.html

 

Waning vaccine immunity and rising infections due to the Delta variant has prompted wealthy nations to reconsider the definition of "fully vaccinated" -- which usually means two Covid-19 jabs.

 

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson admitted as much on Monday, saying boosters were vital to prevent pandemic restrictions from being reintroduced. "It's very clear that getting three jabs -- getting your booster -- will become an important fact and it will make life easier for you in all sorts of ways," he told a press conference.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by metisdead
14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Captain Monday]

Required probably every 6-9 months 

[blackprince]

Johnson is also the guy who said privately "let the bodies pile high". A true embarassment to any British person, patriotic or otherwise. He has been behind the curve all the way on covid and many other issues.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/26/pressure-mounts-on-boris-johnson-over-alleged-let-the-bodies-pile-high-remarks

 

On other hand as a Brit, though quite a lapsed one, I do have some pride in Astra Zeneca making the Oxford vaccine intellectual property freely available, even though the knowhow and facilities to benefit from this is beyond many developing countries.

 

But yes, we all know boosters are preferable for current vaccines, but...

 

1. What about the commitment developed nations made to vaccinating the whole world (new variants thrive among the unvaccinated rest of the world).

 

2. There have been very encouraging developments in other approches to the pandemic, for example i. pills.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59163899

 

and ii. Tcell research which I linked a week ago and don't have time to do now.

 

We are still in the early stages of a cure for covid, and I have full confidence in the ability of pharmaceutical researchers to get us there, even though I have less confidence in the motives of most pharmaceutical corporations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[blackprince]

55 minutes ago, blackprince said:

On other hand as a Brit, though quite a lapsed one, I do have some pride in Astra Zeneca making the Oxford vaccine intellectual property freely available, even though the knowhow and facilities to benefit from this is beyond many developing countries.

 

We are still in the early stages of a cure for covid, and I have full confidence in the ability of pharmaceutical researchers to get us there, even though I have less confidence in the motives of most pharmaceutical corporations.

 

Re para 1. I should have said Oxford University's contractual stipulation with Astra Zeneca that its IP would be made freely available, at least until the pandemic is under control.

 

Re para 2. I'll forestall critics by saying: Yes of course pharmaceutical companies need to make a profit, but dig deeper into the economics of the industry and discover that we the tax payer fund a lot of pharms research via government handouts and taxbreaks for "Big Pharma", yet we don't participate in the profits. In other words we take the risk but we don't get the rewards;  the risk is socialised but the profits are privatised.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by blackprince

[lkv]

1 hour ago, geistfunke said:

quoted post removed

Whoever wishes to go an airplane, bus, train, enter the mall, go watch a movie, drink in a bar, go to a club / concert /event, enter public institutions, go to work.

 

Many of the above are already required in many countries in Europe, some more some less.

 

The next step will be the green certificate expiring at 9 months, to allow a three month window for the booster, in lieu of the vaccine becoming mandatory.

Edited November 18, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of trolling post removed

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, geistfunke said:

quoted post removed

Actually you can't unless you've got some black market source. As public health services note, this is mainly a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Hospital ICUs are being stressed mostly due to them. Those who have been triply inoculated pose little threat to that system.

Edited November 18, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[onthedarkside]

A trolling post and ensuing replies have been removed.

 

[Presnock]

One has to love the officials here.  The CM gov says that his goal is 100% vaccinations by the end of November 2021.  They fail to take into account that over a 100K have paid for Moderna yet when there is any shipment of Moderna, the central govt takes it and provides 3rd and 4th jabs for those they consider to be more important.  My wife plans to take our dau back to US so needs 2 jabs of approved vaccines and that means NO for Sinovac or Sinopharm which the govt insists all get together with Astrazeneca or Moderna or Pfizer.  I read last week that China had sent another shipment of Sinovac to Thailand - not sure if it was a donation or paid for.  But that means additional jabs of the Chinese vaccines.  If the govt loves them so much why are giving boosters of something diff.  Last week there was a news article that the Min of Health was turned away in Switzerland for a WHO conference as he only has 2 Sinovac jabs.  My wife is so far down the line waiting for a Moderna jab that we figure it will be sometime in 2nd quarter of next year.  

 

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

My wife plans to take our dau back to US so needs 2 jabs of approved vaccines and that means NO for Sinovac or Sinopharm which the govt insists all get together with Astrazeneca or Moderna or Pfizer. 

Two weeks ago there was AZ+Pfizer walk-in at several locations in CM for everybody. I didn't see any report of anybody being turned away. Why didn't you take your wife there instead of complaining?

[FridgeMagnet1]

9 minutes ago, Presnock said:

One has to love the officials here.  The CM gov says that his goal is 100% vaccinations by the end of November 2021.  They fail to take into account that over a 100K have paid for Moderna yet when there is any shipment of Moderna, the central govt takes it and provides 3rd and 4th jabs for those they consider to be more important.  My wife plans to take our dau back to US so needs 2 jabs of approved vaccines and that means NO for Sinovac or Sinopharm which the govt insists all get together with Astrazeneca or Moderna or Pfizer.  

 

Noz that’s completely untrue. Sinovac, double dose is accepted in the US 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/d0d4156d-ace9-4119-ac3e-a1e4d4bf6440

 

who told you such nonsense that Sinovac wasn’t recognized in the US?

[FridgeMagnet1]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Two weeks ago there was AZ+Pfizer walk-in at several locations in CM for everybody. I didn't see any report of anybody being turned away. Why didn't you take your wife there instead of complaining?

Any WHO approved vaccine is approved for travel in the US, that included Sinovac and Sinopharm.

 

[edogthong]

I think everyone is neglecting a key property of the very nature of evolution of viruses. We keep hearing about how newer variants are more contagious but what the media often conveniently forget to mention is how the newer variants are also less deadly and generally less dangerous. Viruses won't survive for long if they kill off their hosts. The weaker variants survive and take over. This fact combined with better treatment alternatives means that eventually, the need for boosters will gradually diminish. It's also worth noting that the risk and occurrence of side effects only increase with every booster. Many of those who gotten sick after their first two jabs will refuse to get a third. And those who've gotten a third and gotten sick will refuse a fourth and so on. This world wide push to get everyone injected can't go on forever. The pendulum always turns to swing the other way eventually. 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, edogthong said:

I think everyone is neglecting a key property of the very nature of evolution of viruses. We keep hearing about how newer variants are more contagious but what the media often conveniently forget to mention is how the newer variants are also less deadly and generally less dangerous. Viruses won't survive for long if they kill off their hosts. The weaker variants survive and take over. This fact combined with better treatment alternatives means that eventually, the need for boosters will gradually diminish. It's also worth noting that the risk and occurrence of side effects only increase with every booster. Many of those who gotten sick after their first two jabs will refuse to get a third. And those who've gotten a third and gotten sick will refuse a fourth and so on. This world wide push to get everyone injected can't go on forever. The pendulum always turns to swing the other way eventually. 

Where is your evidence that the newer variants are less deadly?

Delta is believed to be more than twice as contagious as previous variants, and studies have shown that it may be more likely than the original virus to put infected people in the hospital. People who are not vaccinated are most at risk, and the highest spread of cases and severe outcomes is happening in places with low vaccination rates.  

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-things-to-know-delta-variant-covi

Maybe in the long run it's true that contagious pathogens become less virulent. Maybe. It's actually not a settled question. But it's still very early days

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, edogthong said:

I think everyone is neglecting a key property of the very nature of evolution of viruses. We keep hearing about how newer variants are more contagious but what the media often conveniently forget to mention is how the newer variants are also less deadly and generally less dangerous. Viruses won't survive for long if they kill off their hosts. The weaker variants survive and take over. This fact combined with better treatment alternatives means that eventually, the need for boosters will gradually diminish. It's also worth noting that the risk and occurrence of side effects only increase with every booster. Many of those who gotten sick after their first two jabs will refuse to get a third. And those who've gotten a third and gotten sick will refuse a fourth and so on. This world wide push to get everyone injected can't go on forever. The pendulum always turns to swing the other way eventually. 

A completely fact free post. 

 

How about some links to back up what otherwise seem to be your dreams? 

[placeholder]

  A new variant may be less deadly. A new variant could also be more deadly. There are way too many immunologically naive humans out there for predictions about whether the virus will in the short run evolve to be more more or less deadly. 

 

It should be pointed out that there are 2 main factors. One is transmissibility and the other is mortality. If a mutation makes a virus more dangerous but also more transmissible then if the transmissibilty rate outweighs the virulence rate it could spread more rapidly. Or, if the opposite were the case, it could burn itself out. It's all a matter of numbers.

Edited November 20, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[edogthong]

Instead of comparing this virus to Ebola, it would perhaps be more fair to compare it to the original SARS virus which actually did "fade away". This name of this virus is literally a sequel to the one that faded away. 

[Danderman123]

17 minutes ago, edogthong said:

Instead of comparing this virus to Ebola, it would perhaps be more fair to compare it to the original SARS virus which actually did "fade away". This name of this virus is literally a sequel to the one that faded away. 

It took severe lockdowns in China and Vietnam for SARS 1 to fade away.

 

But, the point is that some virus pathogens do fade away, and some don’t. Nothing can be assumed.

[edogthong]

15 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

It took severe lockdowns in China and Vietnam for SARS 1 to fade away.

 

But, the point is that some virus pathogens do fade away, and some don’t. Nothing can be assumed.

You just assumed that lock downs were responsible for SARS fading away. You have presented no proof of that being the actual reason.

[Danderman123]

22 minutes ago, edogthong said:

You just assumed that lock downs were responsible for SARS fading away. You have presented no proof of that being the actual reason.

Let's just say that Sars was contained, due to active measures. 

[Virt]

Right now there is an issue with boosters that will cause a problem in a few months here in DK, for Danes who want to go to Thailand in their winter vacation.

 

A normal COVID-19 pass is valid a year after second shot, but a booster is not extending that year, so we have elderly people who's COVID-19 pass will be invalid by Feb 2022 even if they had their booster shot Dec 2021.

 

Anyone know if Thailand recognize boosters and if it gives them 6 or 12 months extra?

 

Personally my COVID-19 pass will be invalid in June 2022 even if i get my booster that is planned in Feb 2022, so i can't travel in July as usual if boosters are not giving extended time on the COVID-19 pass.

 

As for boosters and the future.

I think when the various new pills are released, we will see a completely new way of handling this pandemic.

If the pills work as supposed to, they should stop the virus production if taken in time, so that would lead to minimal chance of infection others and minimal chance of hospitalization.

 

If the sceptics get sick, they still have a second chance with the pills, and i think a lot of them would say yes to a pill, even if they refuse vaccines, and of course pills could also be used for the vaccinated people that get covid, to stop the virus production as soon as possible.

 

It's nice with some weapons in the arsenal to beat this virus, so we can move on 

 

Until then it's going to be a very bumpy road.

Austria is one example and it's going to be interesting to see how they are going to force people into getting their shots after Feb 2022 when it is made mandatory.

[onthedarkside]

A post citing quoted material without a weblink to the original source has been removed, along with a trolling post and replies.

 

[jayboy]

As unfortunately all too usual a worthwhile question - what does fully vaccinated now mean? - has been swamped by mainly irrelevant responses.Returning to the topic and specifically to booster jabs in Thailand, I haven't seen that much about the Thai Government's position but I assume that policy will be to recommend booster jabs to all which is in line with international practice.Most expats I know have received their first two jabs in the Thai public system but have booked or intend to book booster jabs from private hospitals.The recommended time between the 2nd AZ jab and booster (preferably Moderna or Pfizer) is 5 to 6 months.Does anyone have information on Thai government policy on boosters - I may well have missed it? I doubt whether it's realistic to expect most Thais to go to private sector sources for booster jabs. 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Virt said:

Right now there is an issue with boosters that will cause a problem in a few months here in DK, for Danes who want to go to Thailand in their winter vacation.

 

A normal COVID-19 pass is valid a year after second shot, but a booster is not extending that year, so we have elderly people who's COVID-19 pass will be invalid by Feb 2022 even if they had their booster shot Dec 2021.

 

Anyone know if Thailand recognize boosters and if it gives them 6 or 12 months extra?

 

Personally my COVID-19 pass will be invalid in June 2022 even if i get my booster that is planned in Feb 2022, so i can't travel in July as usual if boosters are not giving extended time on the COVID-19 pass.

 

As for boosters and the future.

I think when the various new pills are released, we will see a completely new way of handling this pandemic.

If the pills work as supposed to, they should stop the virus production if taken in time, so that would lead to minimal chance of infection others and minimal chance of hospitalization.

 

If the sceptics get sick, they still have a second chance with the pills, and i think a lot of them would say yes to a pill, even if they refuse vaccines, and of course pills could also be used for the vaccinated people that get covid, to stop the virus production as soon as possible.

 

It's nice with some weapons in the arsenal to beat this virus, so we can move on 

 

Until then it's going to be a very bumpy road.

Austria is one example and it's going to be interesting to see how they are going to force people into getting their shots after Feb 2022 when it is made mandatory.

Maybe in Denmark there aren't a lot of politically aligned covid denialists. But in many western nations there are. Lots of these people are in denial about the severity of covid. Because the medicine is most effective when given in the first 5 days, when symptoms can still be ignored or discounted, it may not do much good for the unvaccinated. But for those rare individuals who are fully vaccinated and still suffer a symptomatic breakthrough infection, it's a blessing.

[freedomnow]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:31 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Waning vaccine immunity

You forgot "in less than a year"

 

Oh wait, last time recently I brought up the rapid reduction in effectivety of these vaccines I was yet again dubbed an anti-vaxxer by the binary majority...of course it was FAKE NEWS NEWS from outside the MSM news 'narrative'.

 

I'm not antivaxxer, I'm anti- <deleted> vaccine - whitewashed as better than it is.

 

I'm all for a more effective vaccine that has better research on side effects.

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

You forgot "in less than a year"

 

Oh wait, last time recently I brought up the rapid reduction in effectivety of these vaccines I was yet again dubbed an anti-vaxxer by the binary majority...of course it was FAKE NEWS NEWS from outside the MSM news 'narrative'.

 

I'm not antivaxxer, I'm anti- <deleted> vaccine - whitewashed as better than it is.

 

I'm all for a more effective vaccine that has better research on side effects.

What don't you understand about the fact that you're at far greater risk of dying or developing serious symptoms if you're not vaccinated?

And thanks for setting the loaded standard "that has better research on side effects." Just because you're not happy with the research that shows side effects are few and far far outweighed by the effects of coming down with covid, doesn't mean that research hasn't been very thorough, The kind of results you're looking for comes from the dept, of fiction, where I suspect you hale from.

[Virt]

27 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

You forgot "in less than a year"

 

Oh wait, last time recently I brought up the rapid reduction in effectivety of these vaccines I was yet again dubbed an anti-vaxxer by the binary majority...of course it was FAKE NEWS NEWS from outside the MSM news 'narrative'.

 

I'm not antivaxxer, I'm anti- <deleted> vaccine - whitewashed as better than it is.

 

I'm all for a more effective vaccine that has better research on side effects.

Our National serum institute in Denmark finished their own research and it not been peer reviewed on anything, but their conclusion is that even if certain vaccines efficiency are reduced A LOT after 6 months, they still provide a good protections against severe illness and deaths,

so it's not all bad news.

New vaccines are under development and some provides better results than the mRNA vaccines, but still has to go through phase 3 trials, so we have to wait and see how it goes.

 

As for better research on side effects.

Here is an interesting read.

It's not like they started from scratch......

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-did-we-develop-a-covid-19-vaccine-so-quickly

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Virt said:

Our National serum institute in Denmark finished their own research and it not been peer reviewed on anything, but their conclusion is that even if certain vaccines efficiency are reduced A LOT after 6 months, they still provide a good protections against severe illness and deaths,

so it's not all bad news.

New vaccines are under development and some provides better results than the mRNA vaccines, but still has to go through phase 3 trials, so we have to wait and see how it goes.

 

As for better research on side effects.

Here is an interesting read.

It's not like they started from scratch......

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-did-we-develop-a-covid-19-vaccine-so-quickly

This finding about continued effectiveness in reducing hospitalizations and deaths has been found to be the case everywhere it's been studied.

[jackdd]

18 hours ago, Virt said:

Anyone know if Thailand recognize boosters and if it gives them 6 or 12 months extra?

Vaccines don't have an expiry date in Thailand, so if you got two shots at some point you are considered vaccinated in Thailand.