Thai health officials told to discover why many still refuse to get vaccinated

[mtls2005]

As of yesterday ~ 47 mm people have at least one shot, so they are not refusing the vaccine. 39.4 mm have had two doses and 3 mm have had three doses.

 

I've been a harsh critic of the vaccination efforts here forever, but I've come around and have to say they've made an impressive recovery.

 

Keep pushing, get those second doses in, push the boosters where necessary (sino-vac/pharm).

 

They know who has and hasn't been vaccinated. Get the 1 mm health volunteers incentivized (cash money, but these sorts of plans usually are corrupted though) to get the unvaxxed vaxxed. Offer direct subsidies (yes, subject to corruption) to citizens, foreigners and migrant workers to get vaxxed.

 

Get migrant workers vaccinated - this will be challenging for the illegals.

 

Come up with an adolescent/pediatric solution.

 

It's going to require dedication and focus, which are usually not practiced here on any issue save not letting the proles have a representative legal system or government, for the long term.

 

 

[Scott]

14 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Video about the evolution SARS-CoV-2 released by the National Institute of Health (US Govt Agency)

 

 

 

Title: Evolutionary Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 Dr. Bedford shares insights that radically change earlier major miscalculations on the mutation rate of the virus.

 

 

9:12 Emerging hypothesis the primary driver driving increased adaptive capacity in SARS-CoV 2 is within host mutation in immunocompromised individuals

 

 

20:40 - SARS-COV2 rapidly evolving now 5x faster than the flu

 

A study which consists of one immunocompromised individual and mutations that occurred is hardly evidence that it is the immunocompromised that are a major factor in variants of concerns.  

 

Any time a virus can run unchecked in individuals and in a population the number of mutations is going to increase.  Those variants that have the highest level of success are the ones that can bypass the immune system of the healthy.  

 

But thanks for sharing this video.  I will watch it in it's entirety a little later.  

 

[blackprince]

7 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

The solution to prevent overloading hospitals, is to stop hospitalizing every person who tests positive. Most other countries are doing this. All of my many friends who have had covid, have recovered/quarantined at home. While here in Thailand, anyone who tests positive is whisked away to a hospital for 2 weeks. Even if they're asymptomatic or even if it's a false positive. (refer to previous article on Asean Now about the foreigner forced to hospitalize just for being exposed to someone positive).

Agreed re Thailand, although recently in my area of Thailand  the policy has shifted, and mild cases are quarantined together, but not in hospitals or field hospitals, to reduce pressure on hospitals.

 

But my question about ethics is more general. Would it be ethical for the NHS in the UK for example (I use the NHS as an example because it's the best known national government health service) to turn away people who need treatment? (Unlike in Thailand it has only been policy in the UK to hospitalise cases that need treatment.)

 

The approach that you are proposing, and which I agree with hypothetically, could only be achieved in the UK (and US) by turning away people who need treatment. Is this ethical? Would it result in massive "civil disobedience"? Would it be ethical to subject already stressed health workers to greater stress?

[SteveJames]

I already had Bells Palsy 2 years ago and have receipts with photo on from Pattaya hospital just before the Pandemic started and Sinovac has higher risk of Bells Palsy : https://news.yahoo.com/higher-risk-bells-palsy-sinovacs-004336902.html

 

People have personal reasons and its clear in many human rights documents that our fore-fathers fought for

 

I also don't want to try an experimental MRNA vaccine.   My wife is sensitive to allergies and we haven't been out in over 3months so we are not a risk to others

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[Scott]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Video about the evolution SARS-CoV-2 released by the National Institute of Health (US Govt Agency)

 

 

 

Title: Evolutionary Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 Dr. Bedford shares insights that radically change earlier major miscalculations on the mutation rate of the virus.

 

 

9:12 Emerging hypothesis the primary driver driving increased adaptive capacity in SARS-CoV 2 is within host mutation in immunocompromised individuals

 

 

20:40 - SARS-COV2 rapidly evolving now 5x faster than the flu

 

Again, thanks for posting.  It's a very technical discussion and it's a little hard to follow some of the charts on a computer screen, but very informative.

 

There is no indication from what he said that immunocompromised people would be any more likely to produce a dangerous variant than anyone else.   He used an immunocompromised patient who was hospitalized for 150 days (no idea if he recovered or died), to track the multiple mutations that occur all the time on various parts of the virus, mostly with the  spike.  These mutations do not produce new variants, they simply change the structure of the virus.  Some may be more advantageous to the virus; some may not.  In a person with a very low immune response this would be easier because there is less immune response interfering with variations.  

 

[Scott]

10 minutes ago, SteveJames said:

I already had Bells Palsy 2 years ago and have receipts with photo on from Pattaya hospital just before the Pandemic started and Sinovac has higher risk of Bells Palsy : https://news.yahoo.com/higher-risk-bells-palsy-sinovacs-004336902.html

 

People have personal reasons and its clear in many human rights documents that our fore-fathers fought for

 

I also don't want to try an experimental MRNA vaccine.   My wife is sensitive to allergies and we haven't been out in over 3months so we are not a risk to others

 

If you in fact have a condition which prevents you from getting the vaccine, you may well be able to get a medical exemption.

[Venom]

19 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I [as an expat] had 2x AZ shots at a local municipality building near my home location.

Healthy Thais under the age of 60 were given 1st shot Sinovac, 2nd shot AZ

Many refused the Sinoshot after registering, and signing in at the vaccination centre.

As they checked in and asked what they were going to get they simple said no and walked away.

 

We also went with the older technology. Those that want the mRNA are more then welcome. Enjoy. 

[Venom]

19 hours ago, hotchilli said:

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Venom

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, mokwit said:

I am not keen on novel, untested "vaccines" like mRNA "vaccines".

 

The two main mRNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, are hardly untested at this point, having first undergone international clinical trials before being given emergency use authorization internationally, and Pfizer already having been given full authorization in the U.S. And many hundreds of millions of doses already given just in the U.S. and EU over the past year.

 

 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccine-doses-by-manufacturer?country=~USA

 

Quote

Usually with a therapeutic the type of side effects that take it off the market become evident over a much longer time period than we have experienced with mRNA vaccines.

 

The US CDC seems to disagree with your attempt to liken the side effect timeframes of therapeutic drugs with those of COVID vaccines.  Saying below that vaccine side effects, when they have occurred, historically have come within 6 weeks after having been vaccinated.

 

"Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. For this reason, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) collected data on each of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines for a minimum of two months (eight weeks) after the final dose. CDC is continuing to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines even now that the vaccines are in use."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/after.html

 

[mokwit]

46 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

vaccine side effects, when they have occurred, historically have come within 6 weeks after having been vaccinated.

The ones we know about now. If people are given repeated doses over along period of time we may become aware of others. I was not trying to conflate a vaccine with a drug, thank you.

 

Do you know anything about the reporting process for side effects for a drug (and that definition would apply to a "vaccine" in this context). it often takes years for a side effect profile to emerge.

Edited November 24, 2021 by mokwit

[mokwit]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination.

This is not a vaccine as vaccines have traditionally been defined, although I gather Websters has updated its definition of a vaccine to include mRNA "vaccines". AZ and Sino are vaccines.

Edited November 24, 2021 by mokwit

[mokwit]

28 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

hundreds of millions of doses already given just in the U.S. and EU over the past year.

OK and the incidences of myocarditis for example are very few, but we don't know what the situation might be with repeated presentations over time which is where we are headed.

[mokwit]

As I have said before, I studied immunology and am the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know, unfortunately, I seem to be the only one who recognise he doesn't know what he doesn't know about the extremely complex immune sytem/response.

[Chiang Mai Will]

22 hours ago, Chris.B said:

You mean similar to the French, Germans and Dutch spreading false rumours about Astra Zenica then? Less educated people! 

Touché!

[vivananahuahin]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

As I have said before, I studied immunology and am the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know, unfortunately, I seem to be the only one who recognise he doesn't know what he doesn't know about the extremely complex immune sytem/response.

very easy to understand without more comments, protected people must protect themselves from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection which did not protect the protected.

[Thunglom]

There are a few medical exemptions to getting vaccinated - but they are a minuscule percentage of the population.

It is very important to find out why so many don't want to get vaccinated.

These people are dangers to both themselves and society. They are also vulnerable to con artists and various other conspiracy theorists ewhich means they are a threat to democracy.

These easily lead, gullible people need to be educated and vaccinated.

[Eligius]

It is prudent and wise, in my view, to refuse these new 'vaccines'. The latest medical research published 8 November 2021 by Dr. S. Gundry in the medical journal, 'Circulation' (article entitled: 'MRNA COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers ...') warns of DRAMATIC incident rates of heart damage after taking the Covid mRNA vaccines. Here is the link to the Abstract: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

[Karma80]

 

24 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

It is very important to find out why so many don't want to get vaccinated.

A deep mistrust of this government overall, but specifically an ad-hoc make it up as you go along strategy, and lack of access to proper vaccine regimes? One of many reasons.

[welshissan]

23 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

I suggest that you register your MIL with the government official vaccination program for the over 60 with underlying health conditions/diseases and await the schedule date to receive the first dose. 

 

Underlying conditions include:

• Severe Chronic Respiratory Diseases (CRDs)

• Coronary artery disease (CAD)

• Chronic kidney disease (CKD) (5th stage)

• Stroke

• Cancer patients receiving chemotherapy

• Diabetes

• Obesity (weight > 100 kg or BMI > 35 kg/m²)

Thank you Eric, we did that months ago

[wealthychef]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:49 PM, moon47 said:

 

 

How about acquiring Modern, Pfizer and J&J, then offer it for FREE to the entire population?

Then make sure it is done right the first time through without falling all over themselves in the process (them = government, hospitals, etc...) !

 

Not in Thailand... =[

 

 

How about if the US government forces the patents to be released on these medicines so all countries can make it cheaply in their own nations without paying extortion fees?  

[A1Str8]

People refuse to get vaccinated coz they are afraid what might happen. 

An interesting observation is that we're here today coz we got vaccinated as kids. Many things killed kids a long time ago and they never got to grow up. That doesn't happen anymore coz of vaccines and modern medical science. 

 

On a side note I did get vaccinated because in my country companies pay you large sums to get vaccinated. So I did. I expect to get paid whatever I do. 

[Thunglom]

15 hours ago, Karma80 said:

 

A deep mistrust of this government overall, but specifically an ad-hoc make it up as you go along strategy, and lack of access to proper vaccine regimes? One of many reasons.

I think we need something a bit more substantial than Thaivisa guesswork.

 

[zzaa09]

22 hours ago, BadSpottedDog said:

The solution to prevent overloading hospitals, is to stop hospitalizing every person who tests positive. Most other countries are doing this. All of my many friends who have had covid, have recovered/quarantined at home. While here in Thailand, anyone who tests positive is whisked away to a hospital for 2 weeks. Even if they're asymptomatic or even if it's a false positive. (refer to previous article on Asean Now about the foreigner forced to hospitalize just for being exposed to someone positive).

The officialdom learning curve [as observed from what others are doing] is a wee bit slow here. 

 

[Odysseus123]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:21 AM, Credo said:

I doubt they are going to demand that locals be vaccinated and give foreigners a free pass.

...And neither should they..

[Odysseus123]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:50 PM, Chiang Mai Will said:

A third-rate education system creates people less well educated and very susceptible to rumour and fear.

I think the Thais are doing rather well -they have been hit hard but are bouncing back.

I have no interest in Western Caucasian Lord Jim's ands their less than stellar intellectual performances.

Fakirs in the UK

Libertarians and anti-vaxxers from the land of addled American pie.

[BadSpottedDog]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:56 PM, Russell17au said:

Sorry, but you are incorrect about the Astra-Zeneca because my wife's 21 year old daughter was forced to have Astra-Zeneca as her 1st jab by the university that she is attending and that happened last Thursday afternoon and early Friday morning we took her to hospital with severe side effects and early Friday afternoon she was transferred to ICU in a coma which was found to be caused by blood clots which is why originally Astra-Zeneca was not the be given to anyone under 60, but thankfully on Sunday the wife's daughter came out of the coma. The treating doctor told us that it was a good thing that we got her to the hospital early which gave them a chance to treat her which saved her life and the doctor also told the whole family not to get vaccinated with Astra-Zeneca because they do not know if there could be a genetic link that would cause problems with another family member 

Thanks for posting. I'm interested to know what hospital. We are trying to find a doctor to get legitimate exemption for medical reasons, and would also like to know (if you're in Thailand), do the powers that be, honor them? 

[Russell17au]

29 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

Thanks for posting. I'm interested to know what hospital. We are trying to find a doctor to get legitimate exemption for medical reasons, and would also like to know (if you're in Thailand), do the powers that be, honor them? 

Yes, I am in Thailand and I would guess that your chances of seeing this doctor would be zilch as he does not have his own practice and he does not attend out patience he only works in the ICU so unless 1 of your family members is admitted to the ICU then there would be a zero chance of seeing him. I thought the same thing as you and asked him where his practice was so that we could go to him for future medical needs and he told me that I would only ever be able to see him under the same circumstances that we are under now and at the ICU of the hospital. As for the powers that be accepting legitimate medical exemptions, nobody knows.

[BadSpottedDog]

15 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, I am in Thailand and I would guess that your chances of seeing this doctor would be zilch as he does not have his own practice and he does not attend out patience he only works in the ICU so unless 1 of your family members is admitted to the ICU then there would be a zero chance of seeing him. I thought the same thing as you and asked him where his practice was so that we could go to him for future medical needs and he told me that I would only ever be able to see him under the same circumstances that we are under now and at the ICU of the hospital. As for the powers that be accepting legitimate medical exemptions, nobody knows.

Thank you for answering! ❤️ 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, BadSpottedDog said:

We are trying to find a doctor to get legitimate exemption for medical reasons, and would also like to know (if you're in Thailand), do the powers that be, honor them? 

What would be the purpose of such a letter? Thailand isn't forcing people to vaccinate.

[BadSpottedDog]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

What would be the purpose of such a letter? Thailand isn't forcing people to vaccinate.

You mean they aren't "yet".
We want to be prepared in case that does happen, and we also need to travel at some point.