A lot of people are not refusing, they are waiting for Moderna vaccinations which they booked.

23 minutes ago, Thaifly88 said:

whats stopping you getting AZ ?

Tell him where he can get it then? 

Maybe it is because none of the people holding out trust this flip flopping, money grabbing government enough to pay for something that is not top quality. 

 

My brother in law paid for Modern and still has no idea when he will receive it. Had to get Sinofarm (paid again) to satisfy his employer.

What a joke... =[

 

How about acquiring Modern, Pfizer and J&J, then offer it for FREE to the entire population?

Then make sure it is done right the first time through without falling all over themselves in the process (them = government, hospitals, etc...) !

 

Not in Thailand... =[

 

 

A third-rate education system creates people less well educated and very susceptible to rumour and fear. The younger generations are better off than the middle-aged upwards. Not everyone lives in the cities and many live a simple life.

 

False rumours on the effect of the Chinese vaccines, ill-effects in those vaccinated, and deaths caused by vaccination have an effect on many.

 

 

3 hours ago, webfact said:

These are people who are either hesitant, outright anti-vaxxers or people who have been unable to get even a single Covid-19 jab. 

Lets not mention the ones who paid for Moderna in June who have been waiting to get vaxed, but not before the government allowed and made sure that the Thai Red Cross to get their hands on the 1.1 million doses of the first 1.9 million doses that arrived in the beginning of November, you know the ones that didn't pay for it upfront and ordered at the end of the ordering dates, therefore pushing those mere unvaccinated mortals down the line. 

 

Let's also not mention this to the media who appear to only report on what they are told to report on, journalism at it's best of course.

 

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by 4MyEgo

23 minutes ago, connda said:

But new research is constantly surfacing.  As their are no long-term studies for the safety of mRNA vaccines, it will be literally years before the metadata shows causation.  In the meanwhile there is a full-court press to silence all but the 'officially accepted narrative."  Unfortunately, that is not how scientific inquiry works.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

 

Steven Gundry

An interesting former mainstream doc who now runs a health supplements empire and espouses some questionable views:

 

"He is best known for his disputed claims that lectins, a type of plant protein found in numerous foods, cause inflammation resulting in many modern diseases.^[5] His Plant Paradox diet suggests avoiding all foods containing lectins.^[6] Scientists and dieticians have classified Gundry's claims about lectins as pseudoscience.^[6][7] He sells supplements that he claims protect against or reverse the supposedly damaging effects of lectins.^[8]"

 

 

He is the host of the Dr. Gundry Podcast on health and nutrition.^[22] Gundry writes articles for Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop website which has been criticized for promoting quackery.^[23]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gundry

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Thaifly88 said:

whats stopping you getting AZ ?

 

Unavailability of a regime of just AZ to non Thai Nationals under 60 whose Embassy has not arranged vaccination for its citizens and who are not prepared to go to a clinic and get a certificate saying they are diabetic/hypertensive like many under 60's did.

 

That said I note that a link to AIS vaccination offering has been posted by TallguyinBangkokk for which I thank him.

 

As a Life Sciences graduate who studied Immunology I know enough to know I don't know enough, but one of the things we covered was what happens when the immune system turns on your body's own produced proteins (autoimmunity). Also as an actual Life Sciences graduate I am aware that an mRNA vaccine doesn't "change your DNA", neither am I an antivaxxer (who as we all know wear MAGA hats and drive pickups with rear window shotgun racks).

 

All of you experts on vaccines and the immune system I congratulate you - at the first lecture on immunology our PhD and published lecturer explained that we don't fully understand the immune system but we think we understand bits of it. if only she had known a full understanding was available on TV and Twitter.

 

Let me lay it out for you, unless you have studied science to the point where you can critique the methodology of a scientific paper you really should not be quoting the findings of individual research papers - especially when 40% of research doesn't replicate and there are too many non peer reviewed journals publishing. Quoting someone who can reasonably be assumed to be an authority such as a Professor of Immunology is of course different.

 

Also Life Sciences and medical undergraduates spend the first semester ploughing through Wolfe's 'The Biology of the Cell' or a modern equivalent because you can't really understand something such as the immune system without an understanding of the most basic unit of life: the cell. Throwing words like Immunoglobulin, Helper T cell, Cytokine around without that knowledge is not coming at it from a firm base.

 

Good Day to all.

 

 

Vaccination reduces the risk of contracting Covid-19.... thus, the risk of that person who did not contract Covid-19 because they were vaccinated of passing along Covid-19 is zero.

 

When a community is vaccinated, there are of course breakthrough infections, but they occur at a lesser rate than infections in community that has not been vaccinated. 

 

You have also failed to mention that the vaccinated individuals are also far less likely to suffer severe symptoms and require hospitalisation than those who have not been vaccinated. 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by onthedarkside
quote of, and response to, hidden post removed

The vast majority of Thais I have spoken with want to either avoid the Sinovac, or would have preferred the vaccines with a higher efficacy. 

 

Could it be plain "resistance to bottom of the barrel efficacy? 

Just another example of how the Govt is totally out of touch with the people that it is supposed to be representing. Offer the Vax abstainers one the well know Farang Vaccines and I'm sure that will satisfy a majority of them....

28 minutes ago, mokwit said:

 

 

Unavailability of a regime of just AZ to non Thai Nationals under 60 whose Embassy has not arranged vaccination for its citizens and who are not prepared to go to a clinic and get a certificate saying they are diabetic/hypertensive like many under 60's did.

 

That said I note that a link to AIS vaccination offering has been posted by TallguyinBangkokk for which I thank him.

 

As a Life Sciences graduate who studied Immunology I know enough to know I don't know enough, but one of the things we covered was what happens when the immune system turns on your body's own produced proteins (autoimmunity). Also as an actual Life Sciences graduate I am aware that an mRNA vaccine doesn't "change your DNA", neither am I an antivaxxer (who as we all know wear MAGA hats and drive pickups with rear window shotgun racks).

 

All of you experts on vaccines and the immune system I congratulate you - at the first lecture on immunology our PhD and published lecturer explained that we don't fully understand the immune system but we think we understand bits of it. if only she had known a full understanding was available on TV and Twitter.

 

Let me lay it out for you, unless you have studied science to the point where you can critique the methodology of a scientific paper you really should not be quoting the findings of individual research papers - especially when 40% of research doesn't replicate and there are too many non peer reviewed journals publishing. Quoting someone who can reasonably be assumed to be an authority such as a Professor of Immunology is of course different.

 

Also Life Sciences and medical undergraduates spend the first semester ploughing through Wolfe's 'The Biology of the Cell' or a modern equivalent because you can't really understand something such as the immune system without an understanding of the most basic unit of life: the cell. Throwing words like Immunoglobulin, Helper T cell, Cytokine around without that knowledge is not coming at it from a firm base.

 

Good Day to all.

Thanks. A voice of reason in the wilderness of "scared of the dark, non Vax types". You are sure right about the flag waving, fake patriot crowd. I will die for my nation, but I won't risk a vaccine. Yeah, right. Tell that nonsense to someone more gullible, please. 

42 minutes ago, Chiang Mai Will said:

A third-rate education system creates people less well educated and very susceptible to rumour and fear. The younger generations are better off than the middle-aged upwards. Not everyone lives in the cities and many live a simple life.

 

False rumours on the effect of the Chinese vaccines, ill-effects in those vaccinated, and deaths caused by vaccination have an effect on many.

 

 

You mean similar to the French, Germans and Dutch spreading false rumours about Astra Zenica then? Less educated people! 

Several posts with vaccine misinformation and/or unsourced and unsubstantiated claims have been removed, along with ensuing replies.

 

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

If it begins with Sino something it's a no no, quite simple.

Interesting but with respect, here in Cambodia "Sino something" vaccines were very much a yes, being the only ones available free to the general public including us ex-pats. So different to Thailand which still needs to find and "first dose" 10 million people. For reference in today's (23 November 2021) Cambodian press:-

 

"Cambodia is less than then three percent away from achieving its targeted national vaccination rate of 14.5 million people when it crossed 14,100,034 on November 22."

 

https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50975716/cambodia-vaccinates-14100034-people-of-targeted-14-5-million-against-covid-19/

 

This is one of the contributing factors towards the country's complete re-opening and the availability of alcohol without any restrictions . I am fully vaccinated with 2 doses of Sinovac and have my vaccination card.

2 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

You don't need to investigate, you know already.. How many people wanted to have Moderna, or Johnson and Johnson. And what does the Government do?? First jab Sinovac ordering more and more, second Astra because good for the wallet too and than as a booster Pfizer and maybe later next year more Moderna available... The people who don't want 3 kinds of vaccine they will wait and therefor they are not vaccinated yet

govt has the number of people that ordered and paid for Moderna.  The govt pushes Sinovac then decides that when a shipment of world recognized vaccines enters Thailand, the govt doesn't allow it to be freely distributed to the hospitals to give to those who paid already.  Instead the govt is jabbing those that got the Sinovac and Astazeneca.  The govt doesn't give Astrazeneca to those under 60 due to problems they have been having.  Thus I see on the regular daily news, some people have already had 3 or 4 jabs as they got the original Thai and Chinese and now get first jabs of recognized vaccines.  Since my family plans to go to the US for daughter's college, we will need the US recognized vaccines, not the Chinese or Astrazeneca here.  A new shipment of moderna just arrived, 1 million doses, I will be watching to see how many people get it as a booster before it goes out to the hospitals for those that have already paid for it.

 

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Why ?   2 reasons come to mind for myself;  1. prefer to avoid any side effect of, or unknown long term effects of vaccine 

Fair point, but what of the unknown side effects of Covid-19, or the unknown long term effects of Covid-19 ?

Why are you not more concerned of those than than the vaccine ?

 

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

& 2. don't feel the need to, as the infection rate and recovery rate is astronomically in your favor, both worldwide & Thailand.

If you are in a non-risk group...

 

 

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

My last calculation, a couple days ago, by taking world population vs deaths, and chance of dying from C19 was 0.0655%

Try that again....  

 

258,464,273 Covid-19 cases world wide. 

5,175,770 Covid-19 deaths world wide - thats 2.002%

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

IF the argument is true that without vaccination Covid-19 will continue to spread to everyone in the world, then you have a higher rate of dying from it than you have calculated. 

 

Thus: IF you are thinking your chances of dying from Covid-19 are 0.0655% its because of an aggregate statistic calculation that not everyone will contract Covid-19.

 

How is that achieved ???? (that not everyone catches Covid-19) - its either through natural immunity (which a lot of people probably have) or through vaccine immunity and protection. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

For Thailand, just now, chance of dying is at < 0.03% of the 70 million population of Thailand.

As above, the raw stats do not tell the whole story. 

 

IF you are over 70, living in Bangkok, going out regularly, unvaccinated your probability of getting ‘hit’ by Covid-19 is much higher than a national average. 

IF you are in Germany right now, going out regularly, unvaccinated, your probability of getting ‘hit’ by Covid-19 is again much much higher. 

 

If someone wishes to avoid the inevitable they have to lock themselves away. If someone wishes to avoid the ‘hit’ when the inevitable happens (contracting covid-19) vaccination reduces the chances or serious symptoms for we (all of us) have no idea if they will be impacted severely or not. 

 

I know of 7 people with Covid-19 (at the moment) - 4 of them are feeling really crappy with influenza symptoms (which is no fun) - its not worth shutting the world down for ‘influenza’ symtoms, but its defiantly worth vaccinating the world so we don’t have to shut it down so there are not more people with far worse symptoms than influenza symptoms !!!

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, connda said:

But new research is constantly surfacing.  As their are no long-term studies for the safety of mRNA vaccines, it will be literally years before the metadata shows causation.  In the meanwhile there is a full-court press to silence all but the 'officially accepted narrative."  Unfortunately, that is not how scientific inquiry works.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

Likewise, there are no long term or even short term studies on the negative effects of the vaccines. That is not stopping the anti Vax crowd from lamenting anything from a drop in fertility, to heart inflammation, to Bill Gates famous implanted tracking devices, caused by getting a vaccine. Bizarre stuff coming out of the dark right these days. 

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

What's your informed opinion on mRNA vaccines and Sino vaccines?

my information comes from this....yours comes from Where?

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

 

 the risk of that person who did not contract Covid-19 because they were vaccinated of passing along Covid-19 is zero.

 

i disagree

4 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

Offer them a T-Shirt....... 2 if they take Sinovac..................

 

--------------------------------------

 

 

 

Think a free bottle of chang with each jab would do it

Slam the gate shut on the unvaccinated! Restrict where they can go and what they can do!

it is not them that’s the problem it’s who they will infect and the beds in hospitals. 

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Whether mRNA or inactivated vaccines, they are efficacious against serious illness and hospitalization. The vaccines will not alter your DNA nor have microchips or other surveillance features which many ill-intended provocateurs are peddling. 

you seem to know all, what the worlds leading scientists have no idea about...  we not worthy....

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

Try that again....  

 

258,464,273 Covid-19 cases world wide. 

5,175,770 Covid-19 deaths world wide - thats 2.002%

Yes, but the population of the earth has grown 100,000,000 at the same time even allowing for covid deaths and at the same time total economic destruction effecting billions. It's all nonsense

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

How about inflammation of the heart endothelial membrane?

You can take it from me who has had first hand experience that there are far far more dangerous antibiotics being dished out than the mRNA vaccines

When the vaccine programme started Walls were giving away 1 million free ice creams. Perhaps they should change to pork sausages.

10 minutes ago, wombat said:

i disagree

well said....   yes here in patong see  people breathing all over each other.. tourists think they had VACCS so nothing to wory about....   I been vacced and stay well away from all.... sure I miss my LB kisses but  it is what it is

5 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

You can take it from me who has had first hand experience that there are far far more dangerous antibiotics being dished out than the mRNA vaccines

yeah.... I had some white stuff oze and Dr have me what she said antibitics injection, holy cow... I felt like nanobots crawling thrrough me.. yeah the what thing went away but at what cost to my body?   never heard of or seen that before...

5 hours ago, webfact said:

The Ministry of Public Health has instructed health officials across Thailand to find out why there are still so many people refusing to get vaccinated against COVID-19, so appropriate campaign strategies and incentives can be developed to encourage them to get inoculated, said Permanent Secretary Dr. Kiattibhoom Vongrachit

I [as an expat] had 2x AZ shots at a local municipality building near my home location.

Healthy Thais under the age of 60 were given 1st shot Sinovac, 2nd shot AZ

Many refused the Sinoshot after registering, and signing in at the vaccination centre.

As they checked in and asked what they were going to get they simple said no and walked away.

 

We waiting for Moderna which we paid for in June but as it seem you stole a big part of the moderna lot for use elswhere

 

11 minutes ago, AussieinThaiJim said:

Slam the gate shut on the unvaccinated! Restrict where they can go and what they can do!

it is not them that’s the problem it’s who they will infect and the beds in hospitals. 

Actually there is evidence that the virus is mutating in the immonocompromised so it is them not the unvaccinated that your suggestions should be directed towards. It's not whether you are vaccinated or not but whether you are mounting an immune response. If we took the suggestions of you and others the logical conclusion would be test everyone for antibodies and those who had been vaccinated but had not mounted an immune response who should be restricted. How is it when the boot is on the other foot? Still keen on your measures?