Water pressure problem despite stronger pump

[mrmicbkktxl]

Just bought a Mitsubishi water pump 305 W to increase the pressure in 1st floor.Before we had a Panasonic 250W.Ground floor water pressure was good and increased now.Upstairs low pressure before and now.

What can be the reason?Water heater upstairs has 3500W is that to low?Are maybe the pipes to small?

Funny thing is if I let the water in the thing(Bathroom upstairs) running while taking a shower(Bathroom upstairs) the pressure increases by 10% but still not enough.

Any suggestions?

 

[Artisi]

Blocked filter in the shower head of the heater, some heaters have an inbuilt adjustable  flow restricter - check if there is one and it's not stopping the flow. 

The difference between 250 and 305 w isn't all that much. 

[VocalNeal]

The difference in head (pressure) from 250 to 305 is only about 3 metres. What you do get is potentially more flow. 

Have a look at the hose that feeds the water heater. It may be quite small. You can get bigger ones but not hugely bigger. 

By standing on a chair and elevating the heater inlet and outlet hoses you can pour vinegar through the heater.

 

Last resort? A new water heater with an integral "jet" pump. 

[vinci]

maybe turn up the pressure, adjust the pressure on the pump

[Artisi]

Just now, vinci said:

maybe turn up the pressure, adjust the pressure on the pump

How do you do that? 

[vinci]

 

[mrmicbkktxl]

5 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

The difference in head (pressure) from 250 to 305 is only about 3 metres. What you do get is potentially more flow. 

Have a look at the hose that feeds the water heater. It may be quite small. You can get bigger ones but not hugely bigger. 

By standing on a chair and elevating the heater inlet and outlet hoses you can pour vinegar through the heater.

 

Last resort? A new water heater with an integral "jet" pump. 

From the ground where the pump is located to the first floor it's only 3.50 meters height difference so I thought 305w is more than sufficent,I will have a look tomorrow and maybe post some pics

[Artisi]

8 minutes ago, vinci said:

 

Not the OP's problem, he is asking about low pressure not won't  shut down? 

Plus it's  a new pump so you can assume the upper / lower pressure limits have been factory set. 

[sezze]

It is more then enough .

Check for filter blockage .

2nd and what i think this is : the route the waterline takes . Meaning , small pipe , long way , many corners .  How to solve it ... this might be tricky . Cut down the route to upstairs . Instead of the long pipe with each tap going out , and finally going upstairs , check if you can go upstairs faster . Potentially cutting the main entrance ( pressure side from pump ) to make a connection there to go upstairs already .

Stronger pumps , essentially got about the same pressure . It is only the flow which is higher . There are off course different pumps , but unless you are working with something else then the blue pipes i wouldn't recommend it .

Other option , small inline booster pump in line going up . They are cheap and very small .

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/220v-100w-silent-booster-water-pump-220v-booster-pump-household-mute-for-tap-water-pipelineheater-i1429564768-s3694848161.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.1.37722025Xy77di&search=1

[sometimewoodworker]

45 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

From the ground where the pump is located to the first floor it's only 3.50 meters height difference so I thought 305w is more than sufficent,I will have a look tomorrow and maybe post some pics

It is more than enough, as was the previous pump. 
Your problems are not in the pump. 
regrettably many people go with small pipes, many 90 degree bends and often don’t clean the filters that are in many appliances. 
An ideal install has at least 1” pipes feeding everywhere that are only reduced to the ½” pipes at the point you connect the outlets also dual 45 degree bends wherever possible.

 

So without actually inspecting the pipe work I can virtually guarantee that you have ½” pipe everywhere multiple 90 degree bends and very likely some restrictions in the pipes going to the second level of your house.

 

if your pipes are surface mounted you will be able to redo the upstairs feed without too much difficulty.

If you have a garden hose you can confirm that the pipes are the problem by feeding it from a ground floor outlet and running it up to an upstairs drain, you will see that the height makes almost no difference so proving a pipe work problem. You could also try feeding your upstairs shower with it, again proving a pipe work problem.

 

When we built we used 32mm PP-R pipe buried in the walls as that is virtually guaranteed to be leak proof. We now have showers available when there is a power cut (far too often here) with just a 3 meter head of water.

 

 

[Elkski]

56 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It is more than enough, as was the previous pump. 
Your problems are not in the pump. 
regrettably many people go with small pipes, many 90 degree bends and often don’t clean the filters that are in many appliances. 
An ideal install has at least 1” pipes feeding everywhere that are only reduced to the ½” pipes at the point you connect the outlets also dual 45 degree bends wherever possible.

 

So without actually inspecting the pipe work I can virtually guarantee that you have ½” pipe everywhere multiple 90 degree bends and very likely some restrictions in the pipes going to the second level of your house.

 

if your pipes are surface mounted you will be able to redo the upstairs feed without too much difficulty.

If you have a garden hose you can confirm that the pipes are the problem by feeding it from a ground floor outlet and running it up to an upstairs drain, you will see that the height makes almost no difference so proving a pipe work problem. You could also try feeding your upstairs shower with it, again proving a pipe work problem.

 

When we built we used 32mm PP-R pipe buried in the walls as that is virtually guaranteed to be leak proof. We now have showers available when there is a power cut (far too often here) with just a 3 meter head of water.

 

 

Wow. I love plumbing like this.  Or I loved it, Until I started using PEX and crimps.    

So far no one has explained why the OP feels the upstairs shower flow increases when he runs the sink at the same time.    So far my imagination can only think of one thing and I haven't looked at the pump specs.  The low pressure switch, if it has a high and low one.  But this doesn't make sense unless OP just observed the low flow for a short time before the pump kicked in.  Is there a pressure reservoir?  Rubber boot in a can? By turning on the faucet the low pressure switch would kick on the pump sooner and seem to make the shower flow more as the pressure rises to the high limit.   But in the long term after pump nears high limit turning the faucet off should increase shower flow. 

I think OP need to test some pressures upstairs and down with flow on and off.  And also communicate with someone watching the pump kicking on and off.  I even thought maybe upstairs is on a loop or something but can't imagine how turning on the faucet increases shower flow in steady state conditions.   Please post more info because this sort of puzzle can be solved from a couch. 

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

Wow. I love plumbing like this.  Or I loved it, Until I started using PEX and crimps.    

So far no one has explained why the OP feels the upstairs shower flow increases when he runs the sink at the same time.    So far my imagination can only think of one thing and I haven't looked at the pump specs.  The low pressure switch, if it has a high and low one.  But this doesn't make sense unless OP just observed the low flow for a short time before the pump kicked in.  Is there a pressure reservoir?  Rubber boot in a can? By turning on the faucet the low pressure switch would kick on the pump sooner and seem to make the shower flow more as the pressure rises to the high limit.   But in the long term after pump nears high limit turning the faucet off should increase shower flow. 

I think OP need to test some pressures upstairs and down with flow on and off.  And also communicate with someone watching the pump kicking on and off.  I even thought maybe upstairs is on a loop or something but can't imagine how turning on the faucet increases shower flow in steady state conditions.   Please post more info because this sort of puzzle can be solved from a couch. 

A crystal ball always helps. 

[bunnydrops]

My take

If it was a blockage in the line, the upstairs pressure would still reach maximum when there isn't anything running. There would be a sudden stream and then the pressure would drop off when the water was turned on. For the pressure to never reach peak, the restriction would have to be at the very end of the line.

[Will B Good]

Pumps don't create pressure.......only downstream restrictions give rise to pressure.

 

Pumps only impart kinetic energy to a fluid.

 

Nothing to do with the thread....just felt like saying it.

 

 

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Pumps don't create pressure.......only downstream restrictions give rise to pressure.

 

Pumps only impart kinetic energy to a fluid.

 

Nothing to do with the thread....just felt like saying it.

 

 

That is correct, but to the layman it is a meaningless concept, they expect x flow at y pressure from the shower head without understanding why ????

[Nojohndoe]

For sure I would be looking at a flow restriction involving the water heater. Blocked filter/s either on inflow or at shower head. Have found one model had a tubular filter inserted in the control tap that was well concealed.