'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

You forgot disease. Oh wait, there's money there. Where's the money in climate research? Government grants, please list some of these lucrative cash cows. If anything there's money in producing pseudo science for fossil fuel companies. Giant frauds like carbon capture and storage schemes.

 

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/11/20/carbon-capture-storage-fossil-fuels/

 

https://reneweconomy.com.au/carbon-captures-litany-of-failures-laid-bare-in-new-report/

 

Here's some of the lucrative cash handouts for climate denier scientists.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/13/peabody-energy-coal-mining-climate-change-denial-funding

 

https://www.prwatch.org/news/2016/06/13114/peabody-coal-bankruptcy-reveals-extensive-funding-climate-denial-network

History shows that once a country slips out of democracy its very difficult to ever get it back. Of course countries like Russia that never had a culture of democracy in the first place didn't have much to slip out of.

[Jingthing]

DELETED

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[TropicalGuy]

9 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Good topic, and a very dangerous trend in the world, indicating the bad side of 'access to information', when information is manufactured by bad actors (e.g., Performance Artists like Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson, or Russia's GRU working as the Internet Research Agency) or batshoot crazies (like David Icke).

 

There are degrees of ignorance, however. Folks who think Bill Gates is injecting microchips in them via Covid vaccines are simply too stupid to be allowed to procreate, unless the world is short of janitors. On the other hand, sometimes knowledge of people or entities is so limited that things like Hollywood B-fare or pulp fiction can influence opinions. An example of this latter ignorance is many people's beliefs about the CIA, where some consider it an all knowing, all powerful entity existing everywhere, keeping files on everyone.

 

Reality is quite different than many people believe. Views about cabals 'controlling the world' are silly, but those without knowledge or experience might be forgiven for believing such drivel. The fact is there are far too many variables for any person or group to effectively control much of anything. Also, the 'elite' compete with each other, they don't cooperate on balance. Anybody really think Musk likes Bezos? Chinese billionaires like Indian billionaires? Places like Davos are not conferences aimed at controlling the sheeple; they are places rich folks go to show off the interiors of their new Gulfstream. it's a place folks go to compare (nickname for Richard) sizes. Same with 'clubs' like Bilderberg or Bohemian Grove. Heck, Bezos sent (nickname for Richard) pics to his paramour....he's not a demigod, he's quite human with faults most others don't have (unless sending nickname for Richard pictures is more common than I suspect).

 

As for entities like the agency, it is in its interest to be considered BOTH omnipotent and a goofball organization, because that keeps its adversaries guessing. It traditionally is also a fallguy for Administrations who screw up. Iraq and WMD is a case in point. Because a negative cannot be proven, the agency could only give a minimal opinion on the existence of WMD (<15% chance, 85% chance Saddam nixed his stuff after the first Gulf War and just wanted to enjoy his 'booze, broads and palaces' and not be overthrown by outside forces). It was Cheney and the Neocons hellbent on war, and they co-opted then DCI Tenet.

 

Anyway, disinformation and 'research' is likely going to bring about the end of democracy....until such time as autocrats and self-appointed monarchs are again sent to the guillotine and the world tries democracy again. We move in circles, and society is now moving headstrong into a new Dark Age.

Sent Dick pictures to my China girl years ago……which she said her mother saw….thought that’s really weird showing your mum stuff like that …... no way my mother gets access to my email….especially as she died 22 years ago …….

[ozimoron]

Here's how lies and misinformation led to a real conspiracy, not just a theory. Apparently, they didn't do their own research.

 

D.C. Attorney General Karl Racine was praised on Tuesday after filing a federal lawsuit against the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers.

 

Members of both groups are facing federal conspiracy charges for their alleged roles in the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/oath-keepers-proud-boys-dc/

Edited December 14, 2021 by ozimoron

[LomSak27]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:20 AM, ozimoron said:

On 12/13/2021 at 7:08 AM, LomSak27 said:

Spot on. Although, this years 49.4 C in Lytton British Columbia & Friday night's eighty plus tornado cluster, one growler touching down, moving, for over 300 km were strange anomalies. climate change is looking more fraudulent than ever. 

The tornadoes were stronger and more irregular because of a break down in the gulf stream caused by climate change. This is readily accessible and peer reviewed research.

It is called SARCASM. If unfamiliar with the word, then look it up.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

It is called SARCASM. If unfamiliar with the word, then look it up.

1. SARCASM isn't the same as joking, far from it.

 

2, There's a thread for joking.

 

3. you declared that climate change is a fraud without any qualification or signal. Any reasonable person would conclude that you meant what you said.

 

[TropicalGuy]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:19 AM, ozimoron said:

1. SARCASM isn't the same as joking, far from it.

 

2, There's a thread for joking.

 

3. you declared that climate change is a fraud without any qualification or signal. Any reasonable person would conclude that you meant what you said.

 

Whilst real, climate change IS a massive Fraud. Simply because the problem of human contribution  / human nature here is SO BIG & Complex and Impossible to resolve without a World Govt., Unknown Future Tech & Massive Cost. Jordan Peterson Video Explains.CC  Video Flowchart is unfathomable to all but dedicated scientists so present politics alone precludes resolution.

Goalposts moving every three years is another sure indicator of Fraud. Al Gore made millions saying all major coastal cities would be underwater  and Earth a giant greenhouse by ten years ago. Nothing on those yet ….
 

More important topic to solve is Pollution which might be doable.

[ozimoron]

26 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Whilst real, climate change IS a massive Fraud. Simply because the problem of human contribution  / human nature here is SO BIG & Complex and Impossible to resolve without a World Govt., Unknown Future Tech & Massive Cost. Jordan Peterson Video Explains.CC  Video Flowchart is unfathomable to all but dedicated scientists so present politics alone precludes resolution.

Goalposts moving every three years is another sure indicator of Fraud. Al Gore made millions saying all major coastal cities would be underwater  and Earth a giant greenhouse by ten years ago. Nothing on those yet ….
 

More important topic to solve is Pollution which might be doable.

It's not surprising that climate change requires a global solution. This very fact underpins the right wing failure to acknowledge climate change as either real or a problem. Their politically motivated anathema to global cooperation or global organisations of any kind is the major impediment to getting anything done. This is also the reason why covid is likewise typically labelled a fraud or downplayed so as not to demand strong action. Opposition to the UN and WHO are manifestations of the problem.

 

We often hear the alarmist cries of "world government" when nobody ever suggested such a solution nor would it be necessary. It is just a deflection to convince people that somehow global cooperation is evil. World cooperation is required to solve global problems. The planet is small. The world has often faced the need for global cooperation in the past, in the Spanish Flu, polio and smallpox epidemics and two world wars. Without this cooperation the human race is likely doomed.

 

On climate change, the goal posts may have appeared to have moved but what has happened is that the situation is turning out to be far worse than politicians have been willing to acknowledge in an effort to appease the zealots. Far from "nothing on that yet" we actually see that his prediction will likely come true within this decade. Read the link below. We also see massive permafrost melts, record widfires, record tornados, 38c in the world's northernmost town this week, first time ever to rain on Greenland's ice shelf, disappearing glaciers in the Himalayas, record floods in Australia and the list goes on.

 

Scientists insist that the problem is still solvable but every month we don't act makes it harder. Fossil fuel companies and their donations to right wing governments are the main impediment. What it needs is global cooperation and funding of the scale last seen in 1942 (as a % of GDP).

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/antarctic-ice-shelf-crack-raise-seas-feet-decade-scientists-warn-rcna8918

Edited December 16, 2021 by ozimoron

[ViajeroLA]

I'm not a scientist specializing in climate change or smth like that (just like that two prophets ppl usually mention in conversations about that stuff)) and I ain't no scientist at all. But I have a common sense tested by various not friendly environments.

 

And that common sense says that whoever says "don't do your own research" i.e. "don't even think about doing it the other way" is a fraud. Damn, we don't even need to go that far. Just find any "get-rich-with-crypto=just-invest-..." guy and ask about the information you could find about the founders of their "amazing project".

 

DYOR is the most scientific thing one can imagine, just google about the scientists in the really old ages. Otherwise it's a religion or a cult or smth in between.  But definitely not a science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
Science is a TESTABLE explanation etc... if another OPINION (not even an experiment!) can't be a test.... damn, what kind of stupid thought it was?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, TropicalGuy said:

Whilst real, climate change IS a massive Fraud. Simply because the problem of human contribution  / human nature here is SO BIG & Complex and Impossible to resolve without a World Govt., Unknown Future Tech & Massive Cost. Jordan Peterson Video Explains.CC  Video Flowchart is unfathomable to all but dedicated scientists so present politics alone precludes resolution.

Goalposts moving every three years is another sure indicator of Fraud. Al Gore made millions saying all major coastal cities would be underwater  and Earth a giant greenhouse by ten years ago. Nothing on those yet ….
 

More important topic to solve is Pollution which might be doable.

Utterly false. Actually, whether or not human caused global warming is no longer seriously in dispute. In fact, most of the relatively simple models created in the 70's and 80's do a very good job of accounting for the overall warming of the earth's atmosphere and oceans. 

https://www.science.org/content/article/even-50-year-old-climate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming

 The first person to create  a successful model based on CO2 levels in the atmosphere, has just received the Nobel Prize in Physics. 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/persons-of-interest/the-man-who-predicted-climate-change

 

As for Jordan Peterson...is the the same Jordan Peterson who is a professor of psychology? Why is he any more qualified to expound on the subject, than is, say, a game show host?

And, of course, this presentation is in the form of a video. What is it about AGW denialists that makes them so fond of videos? Maybe it's because videos are more difficult to fact check? 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, ViajeroLA said:

I'm not a scientist specializing in climate change or smth like that (just like that two prophets ppl usually mention in conversations about that stuff)) and I ain't no scientist at all. But I have a common sense tested by various not friendly environments.

 

And that common sense says that whoever says "don't do your own research" i.e. "don't even think about doing it the other way" is a fraud. Damn, we don't even need to go that far. Just find any "get-rich-with-crypto=just-invest-..." guy and ask about the information you could find about the founders of their "amazing project".

 

DYOR is the most scientific thing one can imagine, just google about the scientists in the really old ages. Otherwise it's a religion or a cult or smth in between.  But definitely not a science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
Science is a TESTABLE explanation etc... if another OPINION (not even an experiment!) can't be a test.... damn, what kind of stupid thought it was?

Very few of us can properly interpret scientific and medical research papers and rely on experts to "translate" them into language that us mere mortals can understand. That mainly involves the media. It's a matter of reading the media you can trust. MSM is called main stream media for a reason, it's the media that can be trusted and fact checked.

 

If media isn't fact checked or has a bad rep from fact checkers, or appeals to only a fringe ( the "really intelligent" people ) or doesn't quote and reference source material and carry an endorsement from the source author then I reject it. It's not rocket science.

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, ViajeroLA said:

I'm not a scientist specializing in climate change or smth like that (just like that two prophets ppl usually mention in conversations about that stuff)) and I ain't no scientist at all. But I have a common sense tested by various not friendly environments.

 

And that common sense says that whoever says "don't do your own research" i.e. "don't even think about doing it the other way" is a fraud. Damn, we don't even need to go that far. Just find any "get-rich-with-crypto=just-invest-..." guy and ask about the information you could find about the founders of their "amazing project".

 

DYOR is the most scientific thing one can imagine, just google about the scientists in the really old ages. Otherwise it's a religion or a cult or smth in between.  But definitely not a science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
Science is a TESTABLE explanation etc... if another OPINION (not even an experiment!) can't be a test.... damn, what kind of stupid thought it was?

You're confusing 2 separate uses of "research".  Scientific research is about about hypotheses that can be disproved or disproved based on the unbiased acquisition of data. The kind of research that you propose to undertake is what students, for example, do, when they have to write a term paper. Obviously not the same thing as scientific research.

Edited December 16, 2021 by placeholder

[ViajeroLA]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Very few of us can properly interpret scientific and medical research papers and rely on experts to "translate" them into language that us mere mortals can understand. That mainly involves the media. It's a matter of reading the media you can trust. MSM is called main stream media for a reason, it's the media that can be trusted and fact checked.

 

If media isn't fact checked or has a bad rep from fact checkers, or appeals to only a fringe ( the "really intelligent" people ) or doesn't quote and reference source material and carry an endorsement from the source author then I reject it. It's not rocket science.

In other words: "do your own research". Also. CNN says something? Who funds it? RT says the same? If they are speaking about the same things meanwhile they are funded by the "enemies", they probably aren't lying. Unless they both have the same agenda this time. But you always can search for alternative views or make your own one and decide FOR YOURSELF what your point of view is.

 

I'm not a pro researcher, I'm just saying that it's a MOST SCIENTIFIC thing to QUESTION THE AUTHORITIES <deleted>. And "just trust the science" is like anti-definition of the science. It's NOT THE CULT <deleted>, real scientists had died in pain for that!

 

[ozimoron]

17 minutes ago, ViajeroLA said:

In other words: "do your own research". Also. CNN says something? Who funds it? RT says the same? If they are speaking about the same things meanwhile they are funded by the "enemies", they probably aren't lying. Unless they both have the same agenda this time. But you always can search for alternative views or make your own one and decide FOR YOURSELF what your point of view is.

 

I'm not a pro researcher, I'm just saying that it's a MOST SCIENTIFIC thing to QUESTION THE AUTHORITIES <deleted>. And "just trust the science" is like anti-definition of the science. It's NOT THE CULT <deleted>, real scientists had died in pain for that!

 

I don't ever read CNN and don't watch cable news. It's obvious that I do have a liberal bias but I prefer my media to be less biased and more factual. I think it's safe to trust peer reviewed research that's not contested. "Questioning" scientists who are properly published in reliable journals is a fools errand in my opinion. I also don't ever rely on a single source.

Edited December 16, 2021 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, ViajeroLA said:

In other words: "do your own research". Also. CNN says something? Who funds it? RT says the same? If they are speaking about the same things meanwhile they are funded by the "enemies", they probably aren't lying. Unless they both have the same agenda this time. But you always can search for alternative views or make your own one and decide FOR YOURSELF what your point of view is.

 

I'm not a pro researcher, I'm just saying that it's a MOST SCIENTIFIC thing to QUESTION THE AUTHORITIES <deleted>. And "just trust the science" is like anti-definition of the science. It's NOT THE CULT <deleted>, real scientists had died in pain for that!

 

Informed questioning is one thing. But the science of climate change is a highly technical subject. Are you possessed of the knowledge that would qualify you to do peer review? 

 

What we do know is that global warming is occurring in line with the predictions of climatologists and very much contrary to the predictions of prominent denialists.

[ViajeroLA]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Informed questioning is one thing. But the science of climate change is a highly technical subject. Are you possessed of the knowledge that would qualify you to do peer review? 

 

What we do know is that global warming is occurring in line with the predictions of climatologists and very much contrary to the predictions of prominent denialists.

I don't know sh*t. And btw I surely don't know about that thing you mention as "that global warming is occurring in line with the predictions of climatologists..."

 

My point is that YOU should do your own research before SAYING something. Is it true? Are there facts like "last 47 years the average temperature over Antarctic continent had risen from .... to ....+X ? Or you are just quoting the well known "climatologists" like Bill Gates or Greta 11 y.o. White Privilege or whatever her last name is?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, ViajeroLA said:

I don't know sh*t. And btw I surely don't know about that thing you mention as "that global warming is occurring in line with the predictions of climatologists..."

 

My point is that YOU should do your own research before SAYING something. Is it true? Are there facts like "last 47 years the average temperature over Antarctic continent had risen from .... to ....+X ? Or you are just quoting the well known "climatologists" like Bill Gates or Greta 11 y.o. White Privilege or whatever her last name is?

Do you have any evidence that it didn't? Do you have any of your own research that proves or disproves any aspect of climate change? Do you just assume that it's a fraud because you can't verify the research yourself? Do you self medicate or trust the doctor? How about the engineer who built the bridge you drive over every day? Or the engineer who designed the plane that takes you to Thailand? We all trust experts just to be able to function in life. What makes covid or climate science any different, other than just politics? Nothing is the correct answer.

[Scott]

Post and reply in oversized text have been removed. 

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, ViajeroLA said:

I don't know sh*t. And btw I surely don't know about that thing you mention as "that global warming is occurring in line with the predictions of climatologists..."

 

My point is that YOU should do your own research before SAYING something. Is it true? Are there facts like "last 47 years the average temperature over Antarctic continent had risen from .... to ....+X ? Or you are just quoting the well known "climatologists" like Bill Gates or Greta 11 y.o. White Privilege or whatever her last name is?

I provided links to articles that directly discuss the works of actual scientists, not intermediaries. But clearly you have no interest in reading them. Instead you spout nonsense about Bill Gates and Greta Thunberg. It's a very simple thing to fact check Gates or Thuinberg. But apparently you'd rather bloviate. What makes your allegations particularly ridiculous is that you cite Jordan Peterson, a psychologist, as some sort of authority.

[Berkshire]

10 hours ago, ViajeroLA said:

I don't know sh*t.

 

An honest admission.  From your posts, I would tend to agree.  If you'd just stop right there, you'd be golden. 

[TropicalGuy]

17 hours ago, ozimoron said:

It's not surprising that climate change requires a global solution. This very fact underpins the right wing failure to acknowledge climate change as either real or a problem. Their politically motivated anathema to global cooperation or global organisations of any kind is the major impediment to getting anything done. This is also the reason why covid is likewise typically labelled a fraud or downplayed so as not to demand strong action. Opposition to the UN and WHO are manifestations of the problem.

 

We often hear the alarmist cries of "world government" when nobody ever suggested such a solution nor would it be necessary. It is just a deflection to convince people that somehow global cooperation is evil. World cooperation is required to solve global problems. The planet is small. The world has often faced the need for global cooperation in the past, in the Spanish Flu, polio and smallpox epidemics and two world wars. Without this cooperation the human race is likely doomed.

 

On climate change, the goal posts may have appeared to have moved but what has happened is that the situation is turning out to be far worse than politicians have been willing to acknowledge in an effort to appease the zealots. Far from "nothing on that yet" we actually see that his prediction will likely come true within this decade. Read the link below. We also see massive permafrost melts, record widfires, record tornados, 38c in the world's northernmost town this week, first time ever to rain on Greenland's ice shelf, disappearing glaciers in the Himalayas, record floods in Australia and the list goes on.

 

Scientists insist that the problem is still solvable but every month we don't act makes it harder. Fossil fuel companies and their donations to right wing governments are the main impediment. What it needs is global cooperation and funding of the scale last seen in 1942 (as a % of GDP).

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/antarctic-ice-shelf-crack-raise-seas-feet-decade-scientists-warn-rcna8918

Nice idealistic response Ozi but CC is presently clearly NOT solvable on ANY level. 

[TropicalGuy]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

I provided links to articles that directly discuss the works of actual scientists, not intermediaries. But clearly you have no interest in reading them. Instead you spout nonsense about Bill Gates and Greta Thunberg. It's a very simple thing to fact check Gates or Thuinberg. But apparently you'd rather bloviate. What makes your allegations particularly ridiculous is that you cite Jordan Peterson, a psychologist, as some sort of authority.

JP IS a leading CC authority as he worked extensively for the subject dedicated UN CC Committee. He concluded CC is presently NOT solvable on ANY level; Political, Scientific, Economic. You Tube video.

[TropicalGuy]

14 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Do you have any evidence that it didn't? Do you have any of your own research that proves or disproves any aspect of climate change? Do you just assume that it's a fraud because you can't verify the research yourself? Do you self medicate or trust the doctor? How about the engineer who built the bridge you drive over every day? Or the engineer who designed the plane that takes you to Thailand? We all trust experts just to be able to function in life. What makes covid or climate science any different, other than just politics? Nothing is the correct answer.

Fair Ozi but let’s cut past the high - minded  cultish idealism  business and get realistic & serious…..please.

 

You must very well know, in your heart, as a highly respected critical thinker here, that CC presently cannot be solved on any level; the Politics alone are just Impossible. Then the (theoretical / impossible) Economic Upheaval would also simply Destroy Humanity. It’s not even clear that the obvious Human Env.Damage (barring Pollution) has not simply replaced what Nature was doing previously. 

[ozimoron]

27 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Nice idealistic response Ozi but CC is presently clearly NOT solvable on ANY level. 

How do you define solvable? Survival of the human race? Return to 1800's temperatures? Running up the white flag is NOT an option. There are plenty of things we can do to drastically slow down the rate of increase.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Fair Ozi but let’s cut past the high - minded  cultish idealism  business and get realistic & serious…..please.

 

You must very well know, in your heart, as a highly respected critical thinker here, that CC presently cannot be solved on any level; the Politics alone are just Impossible. Then the (theoretical / impossible) Economic Upheaval would also simply Destroy Humanity. It’s not even clear that the obvious Human Env.Damage (barring Pollution) has not simply replaced what Nature was doing previously. 

I don't agree that economic upheaval is necessarily destructive. There are many jobs in green technology, far more than fossil fuels. West Virginians were promised a return to a golden (sooty) era but it didn't eventuate because so many of the mundane jobs like dump truck driving became automated. We could also stop grazing cows which is a third of our emissions right there. I know that sounds drastic but it's not destruction of humanity drastic. It's arguably a big step forward in improving human health but that would derail this thread so lets not go there. I'm just saying there's plenty we can do easily to quickly reduce our emissions. Electric cars and massive investment in solar, hydrogen and wind technology is another.

 

I dispute that I am highly respected here lol.

[TropicalGuy]

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

Utterly false. Actually, whether or not human caused global warming is no longer seriously in dispute. In fact, most of the relatively simple models created in the 70's and 80's do a very good job of accounting for the overall warming of the earth's atmosphere and oceans. 

https://www.science.org/content/article/even-50-year-old-climate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming

 The first person to create  a successful model based on CO2 levels in the atmosphere, has just received the Nobel Prize in Physics. 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/persons-of-interest/the-man-who-predicted-climate-change

 

As for Jordan Peterson...is the the same Jordan Peterson who is a professor of psychology? Why is he any more qualified to expound on the subject, than is, say, a game show host?

And, of course, this presentation is in the form of a video. What is it about AGW denialists that makes them so fond of videos? Maybe it's because videos are more difficult to fact check? 

 Nothing False stated. Said CC is Real . Human Cause: Partly, Yes. Said it is just too big & complex to presently resolve.” Utter” money- grubbing Fraud to pretend it can. JP served on UN CC Committee for YEARS. Hear Him Out at least ….the Politics alone are just insurmountable, let alone the subsequent utterly destructive Economics. Lay aside your cultish Ideals and get Real & Serious. “Solving” CC efforts are the literal Road To Hell.

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

 Nothing False stated. Said CC is Real . Human Cause: Partly, Yes. Said it is just too big & complex to presently resolve.” Utter” money- grubbing Fraud to pretend it can. JP served on UN CC Committee for YEARS. Hear Him Out at least ….the Politics alone are just insurmountable, let alone the subsequent utterly destructive Economics. Lay aside your cultish Ideals and get Real & Serious. “Solving” CC efforts are the literal Road To Hell.

What part of climate change is not the result of human endeavour? Climate scientists are unanimously of the opinion that the planet is in a natural cooling cycle at present which is being overwhelmed by man made CO2 pollution and deforestation.

 

 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-global-warming-merely-a-natural-cycle/a-57831350

Edited December 17, 2021 by ozimoron

[TropicalGuy]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

How do you define solvable? Survival of the human race? Return to 1800's temperatures? Running up the white flag is NOT an option. There are plenty of things we can do to drastically slow down the rate of increase.

and the politics honestly permits which of those ways  …? You do not preserve humanity by destroying it another way….

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

and the politics honestly permits which of those ways  …? You do not preserve humanity by destroying it another way….

 

I didn't want to make it political but mainly the right wing is resisting serious efforts at fixing the problem. Murdoch's media is one of the main offenders in pushing global warming skepticism. We are far beyond claiming that it isn't real or if it is then it isn't man made.

[TropicalGuy]

33 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I didn't want to make it political but mainly the right wing is resisting serious efforts at fixing the problem. Murdoch's media is one of the main offenders in pushing global warming skepticism. We are far beyond claiming that it isn't real or if it is then it isn't man made.

By Politics I mean Free vs. Unfree States. Murdoch not stopping Biden cooperating & USA is reducing emissions significantly. BUT as the other biggies are not (India & China) it does not matter who does.