Booster doses to increase safety against Omicron -?

[TorquayFan]

It seems to me that without panicking on the one hand or denying the value of a booster on the other hand - a booster shot, after an interval of 3 months + following the 2nd dose, makes a great deal of sense.

 

With 2 Pfizer/BioNTech on board  myself, I've been thinking of a Moderna booster, but this report from BioNTech today, has a remarkable conclusion, that 3 doses of their vax gives the same level of protection against Omicron as 2 doses does against other variants . . . .

 

"Dr Ugur Sahin, the chief executive and co-founder of BioNTech, added: “Our preliminary, first dataset indicate that a third dose could still offer a sufficient level of protection from disease of any severity caused by the Omicron variant."

 

"Prof Jonathan Ball, a Professor of Molecular Virology at the University of Nottingham, said: “Whilst a relatively small dataset, the fact that neutralising antibody levels against the omicron variant after boosting were similar to levels seen against the original coronavirus strains after two doses of Pfizer vaccine – which we know is good at protecting from serious disease – is reassuring." "

 

A 'let it rip' philosophy to head for herd immunity is well understood but the danger is that a smaller % of hospitalisations from a massive number of cases will be difficult to absorb.

 

Here's the link (paywalled) : https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/08/three-doses-pfizer-vaccine-effective-against-omicron-covid-variant/

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Isn't it a bit soon to know? "Indicate" is not a guarantee.

[sezze]

I am all for vaccination , and i find anti vaxxers in general weirdo's and irresponsible . However , in this case , i do wait for results . It does not mean i will turn down my booster (which i think will be planned somewhere around NY 2022 , because 6 months after my 2nd dose of Pfizer ) , but indicate means just nothing . Same like Omicron indicates to create less virulent or indicates more spreading . No , real results , otherwise shut up and if you are not sure , you say "we think" or "1st impressions" . Indications say , 2 shots of Pfizer is not enough to protect from Omicron , does have some protection but very low . But also , this are small scale labtest and not real study . I do know the press is all around finding anybody sharing results for Covid and now especially Omicron , but it doesn't mean you can just say about anything , since if it is wrong it will be more fuel for anti vaxxer movement . You test and you get results and these you share . Rumors help nobody ...

Again this does not mean not to take booster shot , since Delta is still very dominant across the world , unless in certain African areas , and since nothing else is available , better take the booster instead of nothing . Why ? Because maybe it helps , maybe it doesn't but do remember , it is only a few proteines , and are actually the same ( original strain spike) then a original virus , so if you get the virus itself , you get not only the few proteines but the full package .

[Scott]

1 hour ago, sezze said:

I am all for vaccination , and i find anti vaxxers in general weirdo's and irresponsible . However , in this case , i do wait for results . It does not mean i will turn down my booster (which i think will be planned somewhere around NY 2022 , because 6 months after my 2nd dose of Pfizer ) , but indicate means just nothing . Same like Omicron indicates to create less virulent or indicates more spreading . No , real results , otherwise shut up and if you are not sure , you say "we think" or "1st impressions" . Indications say , 2 shots of Pfizer is not enough to protect from Omicron , does have some protection but very low . But also , this are small scale labtest and not real study . I do know the press is all around finding anybody sharing results for Covid and now especially Omicron , but it doesn't mean you can just say about anything , since if it is wrong it will be more fuel for anti vaxxer movement . You test and you get results and these you share . Rumors help nobody ...

Again this does not mean not to take booster shot , since Delta is still very dominant across the world , unless in certain African areas , and since nothing else is available , better take the booster instead of nothing . Why ? Because maybe it helps , maybe it doesn't but do remember , it is only a few proteines , and are actually the same ( original strain spike) then a original virus , so if you get the virus itself , you get not only the few proteines but the full package .

I think that they should stop calling it a booster.  It's pretty clear that it takes at least 3 shots to keep any semblance of real immunity.  

[mtls2005]

It is challenging to wade through the daily marketing hype re: boosters. "Now with double the COVID fighting ingredients."

 

Once they add the skin whitening option there will be a run on vaccines here. ????

 

And getting the one you want, in the dosage you want, on the date you want, in the location you want here may also prove challenging.

 

As a Pfizer 2X here I am leaning towards a Moderna full (single) dose here as close to six months as possible. I've got 2X Moderna pre-paid floating now at 31 March, but can split those and move them around at will (pull in to today for example, or push past 31 March).

 

 

 

[sezze]

21 minutes ago, Scott said:

I think that they should stop calling it a booster.  It's pretty clear that it takes at least 3 shots to keep any semblance of real immunity.  

True , i think there will be more , even after nr 3 . I do my best , if everybody should do instead of listening to weird facialbook , telegram or other posts on internet we will be fine . People want to hear things but they do not know what they talking about . It is the same like chemicals , which i do know , people hear chemicals and then suddenly they all dangerous and they all create cancer , and all kinds of weird stuff , but they forget they basically do not know anything about it , and they listen to anybody giving them any story . It is the same with the vaccines , i do not know , but thats why a company cannot put anything in the market without approval of departments of health from a country . Does that mean , everything is ok , no , but it is reviewed , many people have been tested and is approved to be safe , and much more beneficial then a original infection . 5G in vaccines , thats crazy , making people infertile crazy , all kinds of theories crazy . No vaccines are not harmless , but they way better then infection . And no vaccines do not create all kinds of weird disease also , in case some people are wondering . Unless the original virus does create the same , there is nothing a vaccine will create .

There is no mercury in present day vaccines , and even if it was , what do you know about that ? I do know , since i studied chemistry , and i've seen tons of it at my company and the safety rules there also ... if you do not know stop believing people from facialbook or similar .

[rbkk]

I've had 2 Astra Zeneca doses and am unsure as too the better booster for me. Is it a booster of Pfizer or Moderna? If I understand it correctly the Moderna is a half dose  as a booster? Which option would give me the better chance against Omicron? The local hospital have posted a message today to say just walk-in and chose.

Edit: I'm in the 'eligible' window as my doses were on 7/6/2021 and 30/8/2021.

Edited December 9, 2021 by rbkk

[rbkk]

Update: Just returned from my local hospital. They have Moderna as a booster but only for those with a 6 month window since their 2nd dose. I was told to travel to the provincial regional capital (50 kms) where they will happily give me a booster with a 3+ months window. Seems wrong to ask me to travel when they have the Moderna vaccine there. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by rbkk

[KhunLA]

Living in fear of the air we breathe ... simply mind boggling.  Getting boosters out of fear of ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads

 

"WHO says no deaths reported from Omicron yet as Covid variant spreads"

The Omicron variant has been detected in at least 38 countries but no deaths have yet been reported, the World Health Organization has said, amid warnings that it could damage the global economic recovery."

 

Is it too late to invest.  Fear monging = higher profits ... WAKE UP PEOPLE

IMHO .... Top stories ... Headliner and add on to do nothing but scare you:

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by KhunLA

[Virt]

I think of it like this.

A booster will increase the amount of anti bodies once again, and we still have the delta spreading so who knows which version we get if we are infected.

 

No matter if we get delta or omicron a booster shot should be better than none imo.

[Bkk Brian]

28 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Living in fear of the air we breathe ... simply mind boggling.  Getting boosters out of fear of ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads

 

"WHO says no deaths reported from Omicron yet as Covid variant spreads"

The Omicron variant has been detected in at least 38 countries but no deaths have yet been reported, the World Health Organization has said, amid warnings that it could damage the global economic recovery."

 

Is it too late to invest.  Fear monging = higher profits ... WAKE UP PEOPLE

IMHO .... Top stories ... Headliner and add on to do nothing but scare you:

 

 

So just over a week after the first report of the new variant in South Africa WHO states its not heard of any deaths...........yet. 

 

However if you're using WHO as a reference point now, then I guess you should also take into account what they said just yesterday in their daily briefing:

 

The WHO called on countries to accelerate vaccination programs as much as possible and warn that the Omicron variant may change the course of the pandemic.

The Director-General of the WHO says that Omicron could severely change the trajectory of the pandemic and warned that people need to avoid getting complacent over Covid-19 to make sure we minimise the spread as much as possible.

 

 

[blackprince]

So now the 1st world is obsessed with boosters, talk about short-sighted:

 

" The emergence of Omicron was the “ultimate evidence” of the danger of unequal global vaccination rates, the Red Cross head, Francesco Rocca, said.

“The scientific community has warned … on several occasions about the risks of very new variants in places where there is a very low rate of vaccinations,” he said.

“It’s unbelievable that we are still not realising how much we are interconnected. This is why I call the Omicron variant the ultimate evidence.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads

 

 

[KhunLA]

21 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So just over a week after the first report of the new variant in South Africa WHO states its not heard of any deaths...........yet. 

 

However if you're using WHO as a reference point now, then I guess you should also take into account what they said just yesterday in their daily briefing:

 

The WHO called on countries to accelerate vaccination programs as much as possible and warn that the Omicron variant may change the course of the pandemic.

The Director-General of the WHO says that Omicron could severely change the trajectory of the pandemic and warned that people need to avoid getting complacent over Covid-19 to make sure we minimise the spread as much as possible.

 

 

Money = flip flop statements.  IMHO

 

My daughter pays 'influencers' to sell her products also.  It's part of the profit machine.

[ozimoron]

58 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Living in fear of the air we breathe ... simply mind boggling.  Getting boosters out of fear of ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads

 

"WHO says no deaths reported from Omicron yet as Covid variant spreads"

The Omicron variant has been detected in at least 38 countries but no deaths have yet been reported, the World Health Organization has said, amid warnings that it could damage the global economic recovery."

 

Is it too late to invest.  Fear monging = higher profits ... WAKE UP PEOPLE

IMHO .... Top stories ... Headliner and add on to do nothing but scare you:

 

He [Johnson] said while there wasn’t yet comprehensive data on how dangerous omicron is, rising hospitalization rates in South Africa, where the variant was first detected, suggested it has the potential to cause harm.

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-lifestyle-health-boris-johnson-7164aeee5e2a098ad5cf813fcef388c6

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

He [Johnson] said while there wasn’t yet comprehensive data on how dangerous omicron is, rising hospitalization rates in South Africa, where the variant was first detected, suggested it has the potential to cause harm.

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-lifestyle-health-boris-johnson-7164aeee5e2a098ad5cf813fcef388c6

Then why say anything ... 

... we call that 'public negotiating' in the corporate world.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Then why say anything ... 

... we call that 'public negotiating' in the corporate world.

because there's nothing ambiguous about rising hospitalization rates.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

So just over a week after the first report of the new variant in South Africa WHO states its not heard of any deaths...........yet. 

 

However if you're using WHO as a reference point now, then I guess you should also take into account what they said just yesterday in their daily briefing:

 

The WHO called on countries to accelerate vaccination programs as much as possible and warn that the Omicron variant may change the course of the pandemic.

The Director-General of the WHO says that Omicron could severely change the trajectory of the pandemic and warned that people need to avoid getting complacent over Covid-19 to make sure we minimise the spread as much as possible.

 

 

What else would anyone from WHO say? Entirely on script, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, blackprince said:

So now the 1st world is obsessed with boosters, talk about short-sighted:

 

" The emergence of Omicron was the “ultimate evidence” of the danger of unequal global vaccination rates, the Red Cross head, Francesco Rocca, said.

“The scientific community has warned … on several occasions about the risks of very new variants in places where there is a very low rate of vaccinations,” he said.

“It’s unbelievable that we are still not realising how much we are interconnected. This is why I call the Omicron variant the ultimate evidence.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads

 

 

Given that the economic damage in western countries has only begun to emerge with rising inflation, fuel prices etc, it'll be a hard sell for any government that has to stand in an election to take millions of $ and send it to poor countries. When western people are in peril of losing their homes because the mortgage interest rates are probably going to rise I doubt their first concern is funding vaccines overseas.

Given that many of those countries have a lot of wealth in the hands of a few at the top, IMO it would be better to bring pressure on those excessively wealthy people to fund vaccines themselves.

[blackprince]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that the economic damage in western countries has only begun to emerge with rising inflation, fuel prices etc, it'll be a hard sell for any government that has to stand in an election to take millions of $ and send it to poor countries. When western people are in peril of losing their homes because the mortgage interest rates are probably going to rise I doubt their first concern is funding vaccines overseas.

Given that many of those countries have a lot of wealth in the hands of a few at the top, IMO it would be better to bring pressure on those excessively wealthy people to fund vaccines themselves.

I agree with everything you say here TBL.

 

The only thing I'd add is that if the west continues to fail to honour its pledge to vaccinate the undeveloped world, then the variants will continue to mutate - just as the experts have been warning for the last year.

 

Politics is always the trade off between the short term and the long term, and the short term usually wins.

 

The people I feel most concerned for are the 15-30 year olds. It's so important to get a grip on your life at that age - well, at least it was for me - older people like us are more or less settled I guess in one way or another. And for me personally, living 60 km from the nearest city, my life has hardly changed, despite the fact that I'm going out to work every day with the team.

Edited December 9, 2021 by blackprince

[Bkk Brian]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What else would anyone from WHO say? Entirely on script, IMO.

Yes strange how this evolves with more data daily that can inform advise, can't quite figure that out........

Edited December 9, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What else would anyone from WHO say? Entirely on script, IMO.

who wrote the script? It's amazingly similar to what I've seen the medical profession say.

[burner2014]

Will take my Moderna booster after 4 months after the second Pfizer shot. Hope they allow it but I paid my own money for it.

[TorquayFan]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I noticed this on the NHS website :-

 

"Studies have shown that you only need a half dose of Moderna to boost the immune system well. This half dose of Moderna is expected to have low rate of side effects including myocarditis."

 

I'm looking for a booster myself and if it's 'Moderna' it'll be a half dose. ATB.

[userabcd]

How long does a booster jab last.

[TorquayFan]

User - as usual, we don't really know. The 3rd jab can increase antibodies say 10x but if a variant wholly or partly evades antibodies ?  Most Countries still advise boosters but I wouldn't assume that your 3rd will be your last - in the UK debate, I've seen many references to a 4th jab, 2nd booster being needed in due course. Who knows where this is going ? It's a pain and a half for sure . . .

 

What's known as '2nd generation' vaccines may be the answer - ideally providing stronger and long lasting T-cell immunity and addressing the nucleosid of the virus, (because it only mutates very slowly), in addition to the spike. Scancell's needleless 'Covidity', a DNA vaccine, on trial atm in RSA, works just like that - but Omicron may be old news before it's ready, (Scancell are sure Covidity will control Omicron), but they have to wait for test data.

 

2nd generation vaccines are the answer for this pandemic and hopefully the next.

[TorquayFan]

Just spotted this on the Daily Mail website. Though the DM is widely dismissed on other fronts, their Covid coverage and statistics published have been comprehensive and IMO made without favour.

 

This is a sobering piece about Omicron but worth a look : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10298323/Vast-majority-Britons-NO-PROTECTION-against-Omicron.html