Thailand road carnage continues: 12,000 dead this year so far

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

Gold Star Sir . Spot on.  Watch them trying to park here at Lotus.  Big space and wife is outside the vehicle waving her arms trying to tell hubby which way to turn the steering wheel. Don't know what it is but see confusion so many times and not just driving. At school we had to learn 12X tables.  Here anything over 10 and they get lost. EG had a coffee and cake a couple of days ago. Coffee 35 B , cake 35 B.  I went to pay, gave the chap 70 B  he then seperated the 70 in to two piles to help him work it out.

No different here. I blame them being allowed to use calculators/ computers in school and never learn mental arithmetic.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Not really they mostly seem to be sitting around and when they set up a checkpoint there are enough of them at the check point that they could spread out LOL

 

I agree there are ways to avoid it or make it simple but while it may seem like a legit system it was stated in jest.

 

The true way I would suggest they do it is the old tried and true way no helmet thank you for your bike go buy a helmet and come back with the sales receipt and wearing your helmet and we will let yo go.  If not then we will hoveae bike at our compound.

IMO they would buy the helmet and just not wear it once through the check point..

[Live Long and Prosper]

This is only for those who are pronounced dead at the scene. If you die later your not included in the numbers

 

[ianwheldale]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:28 PM, ThailandRyan said:

As I said in my post more than 21000 dead from Covid just this year and that's since March.  12k road deaths is from the start of the year.  Unknown the number that died from accidents at the hospital but one can venture to say that it would be when combined with the dead on scene that it would be less over all then Covid so far.

21k have not died FROM covid!

[GinBoy2]

Oh Dear God, yet another 'road carnage' story.

 

Some of us have been around here long enough to remember the countless stories, statistics, deaths and the inevitable 'crackdown' which will be announced! 

 

I'll be long turned to dust before, if it ever will, change

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Oh Dear God, yet another 'road carnage' story.

 

Some of us have been around here long enough to remember the countless stories, statistics, deaths and the inevitable 'crackdown' which will be announced! 

 

I'll be long turned to dust before, if it ever will, change

Hopefully your not turned to dust in a vehicle accident where the car burns to the ground with you in it....

[connda]

Be sure to wear a mask when you drive.  You may die of Covid.  ????

[Dont confuse me]

3 hours ago, Thaijack2014 said:

I'm sorry, but now you are comparing a 12 year old child that has no driving experience with the grown ups? Don't get me wrong. She did what some Thais do on the road, but SHE has an excuse: 12 years and no driving lessons whatsoever (I presume). She can still learn, go to a driving school and by the time she can drive on the road, does it better. Those Thais on the roads had their chances to learn to drive, but for many Thais being able to move the car, they think they can drive. In the Netherlands and in Germany, you have to follow many lessons before the teacher says that you can do the test. But by that time, you not only know how to handle the car, but also all the rules you have to obay.

Your 12 year old daughter didn't have it. But most Thais who have the proper age had their chance to learn everything around driving, but are often tought wrong.

I'm sorry your missing the point!

Your comparing Netherlands and Germany with Thailand...as the saying goes, you can't tell a Dutch man the time" 

[BadSpottedDog]

4 hours ago, Chivas said:

Until Thailand introduces a "proper" driving test for 2 and 4 wheels (and introduces in addition punitive jail sentences for drink dring) the insane death toll with continue indefinatly

We went through getting our driver's license here. It's shameful. The training is a joke. Everyone is buried in their phone or asleep during the videos (which I don't think really makes a difference anyway), and police never give out moving violations! 
There needs to be accountability BEFORE someone dies, not after. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about the Covid-19 infection survival rate and the replies have been removed.  This topic is about:

 

Thailand road carnage continues: 12,000 dead this year so far

[ThailandRyan]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:43 PM, Kadilo said:

You’re right,  no comparison, as the vast majority of Covid deaths are the very old with pre existing conditions who may have died regardless with or without Covid. 
 

Too much focus and “banging on” about Covid and not enough on something that it’s killing thousands every year and the total is not a true one as the ones that die in hospital are not counted in these numbers so your comparison is meaningless. 

Your the one who started the comparison survey. I just added the Information obtained for the year from worldometers. But slas road deaths are looked at as population control and never any enforcement is done.

[Thaijack2014]

3 hours ago, Dont confuse me said:

I'm sorry your missing the point!

Your comparing Netherlands and Germany with Thailand...as the saying goes, you can't tell a Dutch man the time" 

Well I think it is fair to compare, because I had a Dutch driver's license and drove over twenty years to my work in Germany (around 270 km from home). I can only compare my experience with the skills people have here. I also did the exam for the Thai drivers license (motorcycle and car). The knowledge you need here to aquire it is a joke. The test has literally nothing to do with what you need to know in traffic. My Thai wife went to a driving school and picked up some rules, but even she doesn't realize what you need to handle a car safely through traffic.

On the other hand...in spite of some idiots (ok, many) I like driving in Thailand better than in Germany or my home country. Here I had one fine in 9 years, in the Netherlands I had a lot more. Also people here are not aggressive as the Germans...

But coming back at a 12 year old..you can't bring her to compare. She's not driving cars. The way she drives a cart has at this point nothing to do with her driving skills in about 5 to 6 years from now. You might be the one who can make a difference and teach her. You most likely know enough to help her become a good driver.

[Damrongsak]

Downtown Loei, Nov 2021 Google street view.  Cop, guy in back of pickup, guy with no helmet.  To be fair, about half the people were wearing helmets.

 

[Thunglom]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:09 PM, Rocking Robert said:

It’s a very simple fix enforce the law if you know you’re going to get 1000 bath fine every time you don’t wear a helmet trust me you will start wearing a helmet. All the laws

.... or a very clean motorbike?

[Thunglom]

10 hours ago, Dont confuse me said:

I'm sorry your missing the point!

Your comparing Netherlands and Germany with Thailand...as the saying goes, you can't tell a Dutch man the time" 

Belgium didn't have any driving test until the 1970s

[Thunglom]

11 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Oh Dear God, yet another 'road carnage' story.

 

Some of us have been around here long enough to remember the countless stories, statistics, deaths and the inevitable 'crackdown' which will be announced! 

 

I'll be long turned to dust before, if it ever will, change

Whereas I agree there has been no change, I think that change eventually is inevitable - no government can afford to run with roads that have a higher death rate than a full-out war.

[Thunglom]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:21 PM, sbf said:

The Thai test may be extensive, but that does not mean much in my recent experience.

No driving test anywhere is particularly effective on its own.

Focusing on single issues of any kind is also non-productive - half the posts on this thread alone are of the "all they have to do is............... and the problem is solved", kind.

This is, of course, nonsense. As I said earlier there needs to be a holistic approach as used in Europe, NZ and a few other countries. Then, over the next decade the crash rate (and the death rate) will fall.

In fact, the collision rates in Thailand are not proportionally as high as you'd expect. The deaths are 10 to 12 times that of the UK yet the number of collisions are only about two or three times greater. This means that you are more likely to die AS A RESULT of an accident - e.g. roadside hazards, emergency services, poor road design etc.  In a 4-wheeled vehicle, your chances of dying (per 100k population) are slightly less than in the USA.  The glaring difference in Thailand is the 73% of deaths that occur with motorcyclists.

Whereas the first few months of driving are certainly safer if you've had a good training, in a life time of driving it is constructive experience and life-long-learning that make a difference. But if the driving environment is as poor as it is in Thailand then training help insignificantly.

One of the most worrying things is that the longer people drive, the better they think they are. But in reality, it is not necessarily the case - drivers get into bad habits - unless they receive ongoing help they just continue to get further into bad habits, think they are great drivers and blame everyone else. This is particularly prevalent in foreign drivers in Thailand who fail to realise that the traffic around them has developed over decades in a different way from their home country - they fail to adapt and then adopt a quasi-racist superiority that in fact just hides their own ignorance. Thai drivers are far better suited to the conditions than most foreign drivers. Just because they can operate a motor vehicle doesn’t mean they are “an expert”

[Thunglom]

6 hours ago, Thaijack2014 said:

I can only compare my experience with the skills people have here

Unfortunately people are vey bad at assessing their own skills....

 

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

 

“ ….. there are only three types of drivers; the too fast, the timid and oneself.” 
― Virginia Graham, Say Please

 

“There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well, drive and make love.” – Stirling Moss

[bristolgeoff]

No change from previous years,I don,t know what u can do to change it.thais will be thais

[Orinoco]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

 This is particularly prevalent in foreign drivers in Thailand who fail to realise that the traffic around them has developed over decades in a different way from their home country - they fail to adapt and then adopt a quasi-racist superiority that in fact just hides their own ignorance. Thai drivers are far better suited to the conditions than most foreign drivers. Just because they can operate a motor vehicle doesn’t mean they are “an expert”

Get away,

Don't start blaming us for the way these morons of the roads of Thailand behave. it's  100% a Thai problem.

What a laugh.

 

[Thaijack2014]

2 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Unfortunately people are vey bad at assessing their own skills....

 

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

 

“ ….. there are only three types of drivers; the too fast, the timid and oneself.” 
― Virginia Graham, Say Please

 

“There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well, drive and make love.” – Stirling Moss

I have to agree with that...

[jacko45k]

23 hours ago, Wazoo said:

All it takes is what Europe does. Adverts on road safety etc.  If u r from the uk everyone remembers the Green Cross code.. etc.

That is not all it takes.... policing and punishment for those who break driving regulations needed.

[paulikens]

why are there so many deaths? when they're all wearing their masks on their motorbikes, I thought that prevented you dying in an accident????

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, paulikens said:

why are there so many deaths? when they're all wearing their masks on their motorbikes, I thought that prevented you dying in an accident????

No, no, they need helmets too!

Edited December 13, 2021 by jacko45k

[Thunglom]

10 hours ago, Orinoco said:

Get away,

Don't start blaming us for the way these morons of the roads of Thailand behave. it's  100% a Thai problem.

What a laugh.

 

Judging by your comment, you have absolutely no idea about how road safety works.

[Thunglom]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

That is not all it takes.... policing and punishment for those who break driving regulations needed.

again you are just seeing individual issues and suggesting they are the solution - as I pointed out earlier, it requires a holistic approach and this requires a major seachnge in government policies.

[Orinoco]

18 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Judging by your comment, you have absolutely no idea about how road safety works.

And you have absolutely no idea of how Thailand works.

I did post my thoughts of the real issue of why there are so many  crazy people on the roads here. The problem starts way before they take charge of a road vehicle

Good day.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Orinoco

[Thunglom]

50 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

And you have absolutely no idea of how Thailand works.

I did post my thoughts of the real issue of why there are so many  crazy people on the roads here. The problem starts way before they take charge of a road vehicle

Good day.

 

 

 

 

A completely incorrect assessment of what is happening on the roads Thailand. 

It is unfortunate that so many foreigners take such a shallow and ill-thought out view.

“The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behaviour regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” 

 

People accept archaic ideas on road safety without question but things have moved on and this is reflected in the dramatic drop in traffic injury figures of countries that have adopted the “new” thinking. The problem is that if someone is told something they haven’t thought about before and it is backed it up with logic and reason, cognitive dissonance kicks in and they ignore even the most powerful evidence.

 

In Thailand, the default position for foreigners is to turn on the vitriol when talking about their fellow road users... they automatically exclude themselves from the equation and whilst implying that their driving skills are far superior to those of any Thai people.

 

On the whole though, if we were to believe everything the non-Thais posting on chat forums said, we wold have to conclude that almost every foreigner is an above average driver! Which is mathematically impossible...

 

Detailed anecdotal descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving achieve nothing. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e. blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplifying matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea.

[Orinoco]

1 minute ago, Thunglom said:

A completely incorrect assessment of what is happening on the roads Thailand. 

It is unfortunate that so many foreigners take such a shallow and ill-thought out view.

“The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behaviour regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” 

 

People accept archaic ideas on road safety without question but things have moved on and this is reflected in the dramatic drop in traffic injury figures of countries that have adopted the “new” thinking. The problem is that if someone is told something they haven’t thought about before and it is backed it up with logic and reason, cognitive dissonance kicks in and they ignore even the most powerful evidence.

 

In Thailand, the default position for foreigners is to turn on the vitriol when talking about their fellow road users... they automatically exclude themselves from the equation and whilst implying that their driving skills are far superior to those of any Thai people.

 

On the whole though, if we were to believe everything the non-Thais posting on chat forums said, we wold have to conclude that almost every foreigner is an above average driver! Which is mathematically impossible...

 

Detailed anecdotal descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving achieve nothing. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e. blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplifying matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea.

You just don't get it do you.

Jog on.

 

[mtraveler]

Honestly, after watching the behavior of drivers on Thai roads, I'm always surprised that the death statistics are as LOW as they are.  I'm not making light of people losing their lives; that's terrible.  But from what I see when I'm out driving, I would expect the death toll to be significantly higher.