Thailand road carnage continues: 12,000 dead this year so far

[Scott Tracy]

I don't care, frankly.

 

The reason I don't care, is that no one apart from people on this forum seem to care, and there's nothing they can or will do.

 

it all starts with personal responsibility. Everyone knows, traffic on the road travels on the left, except bike riders that are too lazy to travel in the right direction and U turn where it is safe to do so. Everyone knows that lights are required at night.  To see and be seen. Here we seem to have bikers using headlights, yes, lights worn on their heads. No tail lights. 

Everyone knows that U turns are high risk, lorry drivers need a lot of room turning and sometimes use the bulk of their lorry to intimidate other road users. Pick ups should not carry passengers in the back...all.personal choices, all sensible things. 

[Orinoco]

1 hour ago, VenturaAce said:

Thai driving and road sense or lack of it, is one thing that has always baffled me. Generally Thai people are very polite, caring, good manners. But as soon as they are on the roads they change into racing drivers who need to be first place at all times. No kindness is given, no right of way considered. Suddenly they become the most selfish people on the planet, hence the horrific death toll. The only thing I would do is start educating them at school, road sense classes from a young age and maybe the next generation won't be so reckless. 

Nah.

You just noticed  the true Thailand.

They hide it well.

Anger and Rage are just under the veneer.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Orinoco

[Thaijack2014]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

As I said in my post more than 21000 dead from Covid just this year and that's since March.  12k road deaths is from the start of the year.  Unknown the number that died from accidents at the hospital but one can venture to say that it would be when combined with the dead on scene that it would be less over all then Covid so far.

I agree with you. I googled the figures last year and I too found out that death because of Covid outnumbered the deathtoll on the road. All in all it is in a population of around 70 million about 1,7 % of the population. Indeed every death is 1 too many, but in reality the chance you'll NOT die in a road accident is about 98,3%. The chance NOT to die of Covid is around 97%. 

 

Oh and the natural deaths in Thailand (Covid excluded): about 8021 in 2021, that's around 1.14%. The chance to make it to next year is then.... about 98,86% I believe.

 

Here's a link to all of this: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/THA/thailand/death-rate

 

So yes, Thailand is a very very dangerous country to drive around, right?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Thaijack2014
Information added

[MrJ2U]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Accident experts put it at 25,000 annually - 80% of them on two wheels. 

That's the jist of it.

 

Taxes are so damned high on cars that not many Thais can afford to drive them.

 

Much safer than riding on two wheels.

 

In a car crash you might get a dent on your car bumper.

 

Driving a motorcycle you'll get a dent on your skull.

Edited December 11, 2021 by MrJ2U

[simola]

As long as nobody dies from covid.

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

1000 dead per month on Thai roads ? other matters to work on besides Delta and Omicron........

Yes, with the majority of deaths being on motorcycles then taking some personal responsibility and wearing a crash helmet would bring down the numbers considerably. Pity even basic safety measures are not being implemented by so many people.

 

Yes many other reasons but this is one that people can control right now if they wanted to.

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

As I said in my post more than 21000 dead from Covid just this year and that's since March.  12k road deaths is from the start of the year.  Unknown the number that died from accidents at the hospital but one can venture to say that it would be when combined with the dead on scene that it would be less over all then Covid so far.

There’s a vaccination to largely prevent deaths from Covid,but unlikely to ever be a vaccination to cure the utter stupidity of so very many Thai drivers. It goes beyond proper road training and enforcement evidenced by some of the mindless manoeuvres they undertake (pun alert) devoid of any common sense pertaining self survival. It may be they’re simply not bright enough to drive… 

[Chongalulu]

52 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

A country where you can accumulate 3 DUI's and still have 10 points spare.

Drink driving convictions in most western countries are a huge inconvenience. Mandatory ban for at least a year in UK ,often more than that. Continue to drive on a ban and you’re facing jail time. Even after the ban you’ll be hit with a massive insurance premium hike,if you can even find an insurer. The record on your licence stays for 10 years and insurers will ask for details of convictions for past 5 years and 'have you EVER been convicted of DUI ' ! A very expensive conviction ..

[Rimmer]

A troll post removed

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

A junta based government is not going to do anything to address the deaths of people that would most likely vote against them in any election. If 40 generals died on the roads a day, ot would be addressed tomorrow

We can but hope… ???? 

[Almer]

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

how many of these are due to

 

a. lack of helmet

b. lack of skill

c. too many on bike

d. I am motorcycle you move big truck

All of them

[Almer]

14 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

There’s a vaccination to largely prevent deaths from Covid,but unlikely to ever be a vaccination to cure the utter stupidity of so very many Thai drivers. It goes beyond proper road training and enforcement evidenced by some of the mindless manoeuvres they undertake (pun alert) devoid of any common sense pertaining self survival. It may be they’re simply not bright enough to drive… 

I think they are bright enough  but seem not to care , happens everyday and today was no surprise, 2 minutes from my Issan village home motorbike pulls out from a side Soi didn’t look at all, same Soi 2nd motorbike looked but didn’t bother to stop I am only 2 cars length from the Soi, no helmet ladies in there early fifties, the second lady was fortunate there was nothing coming from the other direction giving me time to move over to avoid her, she knew she was in the wrong by the sheepish look she gave when I passed her, nothing new same same.

[Almer]

Who can we blame, the truck or the bike, somebody was in the wrong or not taking care, forget the helmet against an 18 wheel truck they are of little use, of course helmets save lives but without the collision the helmet argument doesn’t come into it.

In a country where graft and brown envelopes are spoken about on a daily basis, and if so, why are there not more more police on the roads picking up the cash?

[Chongalulu]

13 minutes ago, Almer said:

I think they are bright enough  but seem not to care , happens everyday and today was no surprise, 2 minutes from my Issan village home motorbike pulls out from a side Soi didn’t look at all, same Soi 2nd motorbike looked but didn’t bother to stop I am only 2 cars length from the Soi, no helmet ladies in there early fifties, the second lady was fortunate there was nothing coming from the other direction giving me time to move over to avoid her, she knew she was in the wrong by the sheepish look she gave when I passed her, nothing new same same.

A classic demonstration of stupidity. That’s why they wear no/cheap helmets . Cheap helmets for cheap heads..

[thecyclist]

The real number of road fatalities is much higher. If you die on the way to the or later from your injuries in the hospital you did not die, at least as far as the statistician is concerned. 

[daveAustin]

Reported road deaths are probably as wrongly tallied as covid. It’s around 3 an hour dead at scene but likely double overall. Covid more like 10x. 
And no it won’t change. Helmets and blocking Uturn points would make a difference. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by daveAustin

[cjinchiangrai]

4 hours ago, Kadilo said:

“While politicians bang on about Covid their compatriots are lying dead in the road in their thousands. “

So much focus on something that predominately kills the very old while with pre existing conditions while over 12,000 perish on the roads. 

Stupid driving is not contagious, covid is. Addressing one threat has nothing to do with addressing other threats.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, Chivas said:

Until Thailand introduces a "proper" driving test for 2 and 4 wheels (and introduces in addition punitive jail sentences for drink dring) the insane death toll with continue indefinatly

I've posted this before from time to time, so if you've already seen it then pass on.
 

There are many reasons Thais drive as they do.

1 - I have never detected any sign of common sense in a Thai, and I've been living here for over 25 years. I am not sure how you teach that, but anyway there is no movement to do so.

2 - The Thais have a Me First mentality that is deeply ingrained, and that is the last thing you want to see in a driver.

3 - The education system demands that you do not think for yourself but listen and obey, so Thais do not develop the necessary skills to actually think. That may result in my first point above.

4 - Learning to drive in a proper and responsible manner is quite difficult, and Thais do not do difficult. Thais do 'near enough', but on the roads that isn't 'good enough'. One mistake can cost lives, so being lucky enough to get it right most of the time isn't good enough either.

5 - They have absolutely no concept that the vehicle they are attempting to operate is a potential killer. No concept at all.

6 - Along with inadequate teaching of all things about how to drive properly and safely, there is no test to determine if you have reached a standard where you are not a danger to yourself and others before you take to the road.

7 - Thais do not seem able to join the dots, and realise that if, for example, they drive at 120 kms an hour five metres behind the vehicle in front, or drive at night with no rear light (or front light if they are driving on the wrong side of the road because they have no concept of the danger), then they would have no time to react if the vehicle in front brakes suddenly. Ask any Thai what their safe braking distance is and they would have no idea.

8 - There are zero police patrols to help prevent accidents by pulling aside selfish and stupid drivers. Their only presence is setting up road blocks which seems in my experience to have only one purpose - to check your tax disc is in the window and up to date.

9 - Police have absolutely no interest in enforcing the law even when they are static beside the road, watching kids three or four on a bike go by with no helmet, no license, no ability to properly control the bike they are on. And that goes also for the parents and schools who allow Thailand's future to play Russian Roulette every time they go out. The police know they get paid anyway, so why work?

10 - The government does nothing to resolve the road death/accident toll as nothing practically can be done. The problem began decades ago when Thais first began to drive in numbers. No meaningful test was introduced and enforced, and now it is far, far too late. It would mean retraining every driver (and who would do that - it would be similar to those who teach English not being able to speak the language themselves). And it would mean the drivers having to take a proper western-style test before gaining a license. And it would mean police patrols to catch those who drive as if they are playing a video game. Now, anyone can drive as they like and put themselves and others in danger as they know they have zero chance of being caught. They can drive that way with total impunity. And it would require said (non-existent) police to actually enforce the law. And not one of those things is possible in Thailand.

And that is why the government does absolutely nothing to address the problem, as it is out of control and without a fundamental change in the whole of Thai society and culture it cannot be remedied. The government knows that but can't say it.

To finish, nothing can or will change and survival on Thai roads will continue to be a lottery. All we can do is remember the words that were used in the 70s police drama Hill Street Blues as the force were sent out on patrol - 'Let's be careful out there'.

[Farangus]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

How on earth do you arrive at the people that die on the roads in Thailand would not vote for the present government ?

I appreciate that 80 percent of the road deaths are motorcycle users . 

So all motorcycle users would not vote for the present government in your opinion?

I think that something else is meant here: Even the most loyal to the current government, Thais will vote against this government if there is stricter traffic control, stricter rules for issuing driver's licenses and stricter traffic police control on the roads (with real fines and  jail for drunk driving) ...

[cjinchiangrai]

22 minutes ago, Almer said:

Who can we blame, the truck or the bike, somebody was in the wrong or not taking care, forget the helmet against an 18 wheel truck they are of little use, of course helmets save lives but without the collision the helmet argument doesn’t come into it.

In a country where graft and brown envelopes are spoken about on a daily basis, and if so, why are there not more more police on the roads picking up the cash?

At some level, both are to blame. When I am behind the wheel, I have only one mission, get there without injuring anyone. Time does not matter, who is first in line does not matter, whether I am in your way or not does not matter.

 

The police are so busy pulling over people for no helmet, they do not pay attention to speeding and illegal passing that kills so many. It is a daily event to be passing a bike on the shoulder while some moron is passing me in the opposing lane. It really crowds the bike.

 

[rudi49jr]

I don’t believe that for a minute, that number is probably at least twice as high.

[Burma Bill]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

An eighteen wheel truck did a turn into the industrial estate and that was the end of him.

 

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Another "sop" ( the Thai word for corpse) that needed to be scraped off the road

As a retired UK forensic expert, who has witnessed victims at scenes of crime and in mortuaries, I personally find this kind of reporting disrespectful to the deceased's family and friends. We always showed respect in press conferences.

How about "the victim's remains were removed from the road on a stretcher......."

 

However, I must accept it as I know the Thais love gory details!!

Edited December 11, 2021 by Burma Bill
additional information

[Kadilo]

17 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Stupid driving is not contagious, covid is. Addressing one threat has nothing to do with addressing other threats.

 

No one is talking about not addressing both issues. The point is the focus is too much “banging on” about Covid which is disproportional to,other areas of concern. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Kadilo

[joloit]

I recall some government  official saying, that a committee will look into this matter and make suggestions on how to tackle this problem after the last 7-days-of-danger. Any updates???

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Scott Tracy said:

Pick ups should not carry passengers in the back

That is against the law. But, well, you know........

As in the other part of your post, I agree, If they don't care, why should we. Nothing to do with us. Their culture, their life. Where I do care is about the non-bike drivers who can kill me at any minute with the way they drive. In the past 18 months I have not been out on the roads at night, ever since a speeding pickup nearly wiped me out when I was standing outside my house. He was so close to me, on the wrong side of the road, that I could smell the heat of his engine. I was looking the other way and didn't expect something coming at me like that on the wrong side of the road.

[Dont confuse me]

A few years back I took my  12 Yr daughter to a go-kart track.

What I witnessed sums up Thai Road users.

The second the engine was fired up she was off, nothing happening behind the eyes, purely focusing on what's directly in front of her little nose not the slightest idea what was approaching or what was directly to her left or right.

As for slowing down upon her return a Sputnik could have approached slower!

Normality (more or less) returned once she alighted the kart.

Unfortunately  I don't think this attitude to driving will change as she gets older.

[cjinchiangrai]

6 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

No one is talking about not addressing both issues. The point is the focus is too much “banging on” about Covid which is disproportional to,other areas of concern. 

5 million dead people might disagree.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

10 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

 

As a retired UK forensic expert, who has witnessed victims at scenes of crime and in mortuaries, I personally find this kind of reporting disrespectful to the deceased's family and friends. We always showed respect in press conferences.

How about "the victim was removed from the road on a stretcher......."

 

However, I must accept it as I know the Thais love gory details!!

There's at least one website devoted to road accident victims (I hesitate to use the word accident). Glanced at it one day and discovered that a body run over by a heavy truck can be squashed to look like a sheet of cardboard. But you probably know that.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Bangkok Barry

[cjinchiangrai]

1 minute ago, Bangkok Barry said:

There's at least one website devoted to road accident victims (I hesitate to use the word accident). Glanced at it one say and discovered that a body run over by a heavy truck can be squashed to look like a sheet of cardboard. But you probably know that.

True, but the body has to be on the ground to run over it. The car that knocked the bike over left already. The truck was probably tailgating though.

 

[HappyExpat57]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

"sop" ( the Thai word for corpse)

Commonly refers to "Standard Operating Procedure" around the world.

Pretty sad irony.