Anyone else "dislike" the brave new world and want to get off?

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are impressed by totalitarianism?

No, are you impressed with anarchy ?

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No one asked the NZ public if that was what they wanted.

Sure they did, thats why they have a constitution and an elected legislature .

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

people have smoked for hundreds of years,

People have been doing alot of things for hundreds and thousands of years that we don't allow now.

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

it's less dangerous than alcohol,

That's highly debatable. 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

they are apparently in favour of legalising cannabis smoking.

I was thought cannabis was illegal in New Zeland , 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I can't think of one instance when they did though.

Who puts the money in your bank each two weeks. Must be fairies. 

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I never posted anything about the "deep state" but you attempt to drag the thread down the 1984 rabbit hole.

Completely off topic.

My rant was just what it said, no more and no less, and those that wish to imply it has hidden meanings can go start their own thread.

I never mentioned "deep state" either. We are left to guess what your title means so don't fall off the turnip truck if we get it wrong ????

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Who puts the money in your bank each two weeks. Must be fairies. 

I would have preferred to keep the 20% of my wage I paid for that.

Nobody gave me anything I didn't work and pay for.

And the government always took/redistributed more than was fair.

[zzaa09]

Overthinking one's fabricated illusions might be unhealthy. 

[zzaa09]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed it takes time, and that time is more than I'm willing to take for media. It's not like I'd give up TVF for the new, so it would be more time wasted that I can use far better actually doing things instead. Even the time on TVF is more than I should use. 

I sometimes wonder how so many have so much time to spend on "social media". Do they not have lives away from the screen?

Far too much Kool-Aid being distributed these days.

Obvious.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2021 at 3:50 PM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Last post on this I promise. 

Do you concur that corporations limited free will by their long reach, and by bamboozling youth, to make smoking seem good and sexy. Probably. 

Getting rid of packaging say, and adding grisly images,  could be seen as a step too far on corporation's rights but I like the fact that someone says 'Corporations are using free speech and free will arguments as a cynical weapon to sell an addictive poison to our youth and we are going to fight back. Joe Camel is banned but you can sell them in a white box with a horrifying picture '. 

Banning smoking is a step too far I guess.  It's not going to kill you in the short term, or have terrible consequences for society, except a higher health care bill. 
Limiting free will and free markets is not ideal but inaction based on philosophical purity can have bad consequences due to there not being a level playing field between rich and poor and corporations and individuals. Sometimes government bodies can actually help society become fairer and healthier and better.

Disclaimer: I am a bureaucrat. 

 

The problem with that is if they succeed with tobacco does anyone with a brain imagine they won't be looking to do it with other things?

Bureaucrats destroyed my life, so not my favourite species.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:21 PM, ozimoron said:

I never mentioned "deep state" either. We are left to guess what your title means so don't fall off the turnip truck if we get it wrong ????

You are the one said "As far as off topic is concerned the title is so vague that it invokes Orwell and probably encompasses unspoken agendas and propaganda but I'm happy to leave it at that." which is what the deep state is IMO.

 

How about accepting the title as it is and stop trying to make it something it isn't? No one else didn't understand it.

 

 

[seedy]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Bureaucrats destroyed my life

What stops you from accessing your pension deposits from here ?

The fact that it is 'Against the Law' ?

It's your $$$

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:09 PM, sirineou said:

No, are you impressed with anarchy ?

Sure they did, thats why they have a constitution and an elected legislature .

People have been doing alot of things for hundreds and thousands of years that we don't allow now.

That's highly debatable. 

I was thought cannabis was illegal in New Zeland , 

Anarchy is NOT the only alternative to totalitarianism.

Constitution is "unwritten" so not worth a tin of <deleted>.

Elected- what a laff.

Do tell.

Alcohol is IMO the most dangerous legal drug on the planet, causing more mayhem and destruction than smoking ever caused.

It is, but they apparently want to legalise it.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, seedy said:

What stops you from accessing your pension deposits from here ?

The fact that it is 'Against the Law' ?

It's your $$$

If I leave the country for more than 26 weeks my pension is cancelled.

The bureaucrats think it's their money and I should be grateful for the pittance they give me.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If I leave the country for more than 26 weeks my pension is cancelled.

The bureaucrats think it's their money and I should be grateful for the pittance they give me.

The NZ pension? I didn't know that. I believe the Aussie pension is fully "transportable".

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The NZ pension? I didn't know that. I believe the Aussie pension is fully "transportable".

NZ pension is if one applies and jumps through the bureaucratic hoops ( Thai immigration is easy compared to NZ bureaucracy ).

Edited December 25, 2021 by thaibeachlovers
for reasons I don't want to put on the post

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Anarchy is NOT the only alternative to totalitarianism

and totalitarianism is not the only alternative to legislation you don't like

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Constitution is "unwritten" so not worth a tin of <deleted>.

I thought you don't like totalitarianism. You also don't like constitutional democracy?

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Elected- what a laff.

 For someone who does not like totalitarianisms you sure have a strange sense of humor.

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Alcohol is IMO the most dangerous legal drug on the planet,

Like that preverbal bodily orifice  we all have, we all also have an opinion.

 

  

 

[zzaa09]

Quickly becoming saturated by extreme cultural-centricity of a unsophisticated and fanciful manner. 

Time to get off. 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

and totalitarianism is not the only alternative to legislation you don't like

I thought you don't like totalitarianism. You also don't like constitutional democracy?

 For someone who does not like totalitarianisms you sure have a strange sense of humor.

Like that preverbal bodily orifice  we all have, we all also have an opinion.

 

  

 

IMO we haven't had anything resembling democracy since members of parliament were elected by MMP.

We also don't have a written constitution ergo no constitutional democracy as in the USA.

 

This is straying into politics so I'll leave it at that.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO we haven't had anything resembling democracy since members of parliament were elected by MMP.

We also don't have a written constitution ergo no constitutional democracy as in the USA.

 

This is straying into politics so I'll leave it at that.

You are right , we are straying of topic.

When I mentioned constitution I did not do it to argue the nature of the NZ one, but to help make the point that there is a set of agreed apron principles that aid the governance of a courtly, Every country  has that including NZ. One can not be a constitutional monarchy without a constitution. 

So A rose by any other name.....

The point with in the context of the " Totalitarianisms" claim as it pertains to the  tobaccos ban in NZ is that the ban is carried out with in the legal governing structure supported by the agreed upon principles (if one does not like the word constitution)  that has been agreed upon if not by a constitutional convention, then by referendum. Which is IMO much more democratic than a constitutional convention. 

   But that's neither here nor there. if a constituency does not like the legislation in question I am sure there is a mechanism for changing it .

Hence not Totalitarian by definition. .  

IMO and I hope the opinion of any reasonable person. that  Tabaco has  no redeeming value and should be eliminated.. It provided no value what so ever to society other than the profits to the tobaccos industry while inflicting significant cost and suffering to society.

  People in the future will look back in our time in relation to smocking , in the same way we look back to some of the practices of cavemen and wonder how we could possible had been so stupid.  

[Fat is a type of crazy]

On 12/24/2021 at 3:30 PM, BritManToo said:

I would have preferred to keep the 20% of my wage I paid for that.

Nobody gave me anything I didn't work and pay for.

And the government always took/redistributed more than was fair.

 

17 hours ago, seedy said:

What stops you from accessing your pension deposits from here ?

The fact that it is 'Against the Law' ?

It's your $$$

It may be that Age pensions are different for UK as compared to Australia and New Zealand. Tax paid through your life is not a factor in how much age pension you get. I have a friend who's a good artist and musician but been on the dole for pretty much forty years. Lazy sod. He is 56 but when he gets to 67 he'll get the same aged pension as others.  The pension is not your dollars set aside from contributions. 

Individuals and employers make payments to superannuation which, for public servants on the old schemes like me, can be called a pension if we take it as a fortnightly payment but it is not the government Aged Pension. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[seedy]

In Canada you get 2 - Canada Pension Plan which is based on your earnings thru your life. Max contributions - max amount.

Old Age Pension which is based on age. You can apply for - and receive - benefits at age 60 if you choose for both.

They say if you live to - 72 ? - you will benefit with more than you paid in. But who knows - can't be bothered to look, figure it out, whatever.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, seedy said:

They say if you live to - 72 ? - you will benefit with more than you paid in. But who knows - can't be bothered to look, figure it out, whatever.

Lemmie see ........

UK NI = 20% of your wage for your working life,

In my case average of 7k5 GBP x 20 = 150,000 pounds.

Compound interest over 40 years would increase that to around 300,000 pounds.

So at age 66 they pay me 9,000 pounds/year ...... with no further interest I'd need to be 100 before I broke even. 

[Bluetongue]

Although I use social media and have adapted to newer forms of entertainment I have been less efficient or quick at so doing as maybe someone a bit younger or a bit more tech savvy. I am a people person and I get the most enjoyment in life, attending live events and catching up in person with family and friends. But as things have played out, I spend about half my time here in Thailand living quietly and hardly seeing anybody, the other half the time back in Australia working and socialising. I find it hard to socialize here, friendships just aren't the same. I think it was that old Thailand hand used to write for the BP that said something along the lines of "you can live here and get on with people but they are not friends".

 

I have Aussie friends who will not get the pension here, unless they go back for two years, its a tough call, and as a long time ex bureaucrat I entirely agree that they make rules and red tape completely unfair. No one attacks them anymore, I just saw an old video of Kerry Packer (an Australian tycoon of a bygone era) giving it to the Government and bureaucrats of the day for passing too many new laws without repealing old ones. The Australian tax system must be the most complicated its ever been. I try to fly under the radar for all those things, its getting harder and harder.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

IMO and I hope the opinion of any reasonable person. that  Tabaco has  no redeeming value and should be eliminated.. It provided no value what so ever to society other than the profits to the tobaccos industry while inflicting significant cost and suffering to society.

  People in the future will look back in our time in relation to smocking , in the same way we look back to some of the practices of cavemen and wonder how we could possible had been so stupid.  

Perhaps tobacco was a better buzz back in 1586 when it was brought back to England. No smoker has ever been able to tell me why they smoke, and I'm not going to try it myself, but apart from addiction and suppressing appetite I see no reason to smoke, though they must have had other ideas in WW2 when ciggies were issued with rations.

I don't think there was a tobacco industry in the 16th century.

 

BTW, cavemen probably were stupid. Sometimes when looking at people around me I wonder if we actually progressed at all.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

Although I use social media and have adapted to newer forms of entertainment I have been less efficient or quick at so doing as maybe someone a bit younger or a bit more tech savvy. I am a people person and I get the most enjoyment in life, attending live events and catching up in person with family and friends. But as things have played out, I spend about half my time here in Thailand living quietly and hardly seeing anybody, the other half the time back in Australia working and socialising. I find it hard to socialize here, friendships just aren't the same. I think it was that old Thailand hand used to write for the BP that said something along the lines of "you can live here and get on with people but they are not friends".

 

I have Aussie friends who will not get the pension here, unless they go back for two years, its a tough call, and as a long time ex bureaucrat I entirely agree that they make rules and red tape completely unfair. No one attacks them anymore, I just saw an old video of Kerry Packer (an Australian tycoon of a bygone era) giving it to the Government and bureaucrats of the day for passing too many new laws without repealing old ones. The Australian tax system must be the most complicated its ever been. I try to fly under the radar for all those things, its getting harder and harder.

The old Thailand hand was probably Bernard Trink. It's sad what the B P did to him. They were not his friends.

[Grecian]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Lemmie see ........

UK NI = 20% of your wage for your working life,

In my case average of 7k5 GBP x 20 = 150,000 pounds.

Compound interest over 40 years would increase that to around 300,000 pounds.

So at age 66 they pay me 9,000 pounds/year ...... with no further interest I'd need to be 100 before I broke even. 

You're getting NI contributions and income tax rates mixed up.

NI was about 10%

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Grecian said:

You're getting NI contributions and income tax rates mixed up.

NI was about 10%

I understood NI contributions also paid for the NHS, so not just pensions. Tell me if that's wrong.

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, Grecian said:

You're getting NI contributions and income tax rates mixed up.

NI was about 10%

You pay 10%, employer pays 10%, but employers aren't charities, they just pay you less to fund their 10%.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I understood NI contributions also paid for the NHS, so not just pensions. Tell me if that's wrong.

My employer provided free private health care, I didn't use the NHS.

(I didn't use the private health care either as I was always healthy)

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My employer provided free private health care, I didn't use the NHS.

(I didn't use the private health care either as I was always healthy)

I not only worked for the NHS, but it removed my cancerous prostate and extended my life, plus many smaller operations. I was happy to pay NI, and would have still been happy to pay twice as much. Every time I have to go to the Dr in NZ I wish I was in the UK ( but only when going to the Dr ).

[GammaGlobulin]

"Also, all the townies decide to go driving in the country"

 

I wish you knew what "townies" actually are.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

On 12/22/2021 at 12:30 PM, 473geo said:

I tell people now my hardest job is putting socks on ????

You put socks on? Why would you do that?