10,000 Anti-coup Demonstrators Expected At Sanam Luang Rally

[lukamar]

Attackers 'thought he was drunk'

A key member of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship yesterday admitted former Senator Kraisak Chonhavan was assaulted at its Saturday night rally.

However, Kokaew Pikulthong defended the assault saying those involved thought Kraisak was a "drunk causing chaos".

Article

As always there are probably 2 sides to the story with the truth somewhere in the middle.

Edited June 11, 2007 by lukamar

[sriracha john]

People disagree with anti-coup rally: Polls

Assumption University's ABAC Poll says three-quarters of respondents disagree with the rally against the interim government and the Council for National Security. They say the protest will not solve political problems, but rather, intensify the turmoil.

More than 4-thousand eligible voters from 20 provinces were surveyed.

In addition, sixty-four (64) percent of respondents believe the new charter will provide a solution to the political chaos. Two-thirds of participants intended to take part in the referendum on the charter, and nearly seventy percent said they would accept the new constitution.

Respondents in the South agreed most with the new draft charter.

Another pollster, Rajabhat Suan Dusit University , says half of its respondents are worried the elections might be delayed by political turmoil.

About 3-thousand people from 12 provinces, including Bangkok, took part in the survey.

The major factor which the public believed would hinder or delay the elections was ongoing tension caused by political factions.

Other reasons included fear of a potential coup, any change of prime minister, and any decision to reject the new charter.

- Thailand Outlook

[ColPyat]

Colpyat; I think you are misreading a few things. First all I am saying is I agree with him that it is a possibility. Second I pointed out some of Thaksin’s personality traits that support his theory. The profiling I am doing has nothing at all to do with hypnosis, but is actually psychological criminal profiling done by law enforcement. If I recall correctly you said it was a very unprofessional use of psychology. I hope not too many people in law enforcement were too insulted by your remark about them. I guess you will find out though. I made that point before in another thread but at that time you had just started another holiday so you may have missed it.

Based on your insinuation that I need read books on Thai history and I was agreeing with Kraisak, I guess Kraisak also must need to read the same books. However that is a bit of a paradox that I would like for you to explain at some point. If he did not read the books it is fair to assume others in government also did not read the books. So if that is the case what is the relevance of the books you insist on?

I am very sorry, but you are out of your depth here. Unless you have omitted the usual qualifications necessary for "criminal profiling" on your website, such as advanced degrees in Psychology/Psychiatry in addition to years of experience in law enforcement, you simply are not qualified to do that. And that in addition that you have just not enough basic knowledge on the subject matter of Thai politics, history, culture, etc.

You agree with Kraisak. Do you have any idea about his personal history other than that he was a senator?

[ColPyat]

Leaders incited melee: Kraisak

Former senator claims protest has another motive than to support Thai Rak Thai and oust the CNS

Former senator Kraisak Chonhavan said yesterday he had been assaulted by protesters at the anti-coup rally on Saturday night, and accused the organisers of inciting violence with ulterior motives.

"I've never encountered this kind of incident ... None of the demonstrations against the government saw demonstrators use violence as happened last night," Kraisak said at a press conference.

"The leaders of the demonstration did not try to stop the attackers but apparently incited the use of force. So, I would say that the organisers were irresponsible and tried to incite violence."

- The Nation

Kraisak is lying.

The organizers have on Sanam Luang asked the demonstrators not to use violence. For several minutes they have let the crowd repeat a chorus not to use violence. At the police barracks they, and especially Dr. Weng have tried to hold the protesters back from the police block, have asked them to sit in front of the block instead of pushing. That worked for a few minutes at the first block, but not at the next two blocks, the one at just after Saphan Pan Fa, or directly in front of Army head quarters.

Kraisak could not have known this, because at that time he was not there even.

When Kraisak came, and several people have indeed said that he appeared intoxicated, he came from the direction of the UN building, and was rather quickly recognized and attacked. The organizers have straight away called over loudspeaker that the crowd should stay where they are, that there is nothing happening. One of the organizers went over straight away, and helped holding the several dozen people back who went there, and calmed the ones down who were involved in the attack.

And if Kraisak should recall, because he was there, and it was reported at the time in the medias, during the PAD rallies there were the lone nutters who suddenly appeared holding pro Thaksin banners up, and who were subsequently attacked by the crowd, and similarly rescued by the police, with organizers trying to calm the crowd down the same way.

The Demonstrations against the Thaksin government have provable seen similar incidents. None of the higher ranking people in the TRT government have been so stupid though to appear at these demonstrations.

If Kraisak makes allegations such as he did right now, that to the most part can be clearly proven to be wrong, the question here is who else has these ulterior motives he accuses others of having.

[lukamar]

People disagree with anti-coup rally: Polls

A Poll for a Poll, so to speak...

The poll you quoted was from 3,554 Thai adults, conducted from May 20 to May 26, 2007 in the metropolitan Bangkok area, Margin of error is 2.5 per cent. That is prior to the May 30 ruling which would defiantly changed the poll numbers if conducted after the verdicts.

=======================

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Former Opposition Leader Favoured by Thais

June 11, 2007

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - The leader of Thailand’s Democratic Party - Phak Prachatipat (PP) is very popular in Bangkok, according to a poll by Bangkok University Research Institute. 39 per cent of respondents in Thailand’s capital would prefer to have Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister after the next general election.

Deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of the Thai Love Thais Party - Phak Thai Rak Thai (TRT) is second with 21.5 per cent,

Full Article.

======================

This poll was carried out in Bangkok after the tribunal verdicts. Seems over 20% of Bangkok's residents still want to see Thaksin in power.

Edited June 11, 2007 by lukamar

[John K]

Colpyat; I think you are misreading a few things. First all I am saying is I agree with him that it is a possibility. Second I pointed out some of Thaksin’s personality traits that support his theory. The profiling I am doing has nothing at all to do with hypnosis, but is actually psychological criminal profiling done by law enforcement. If I recall correctly you said it was a very unprofessional use of psychology. I hope not too many people in law enforcement were too insulted by your remark about them. I guess you will find out though. I made that point before in another thread but at that time you had just started another holiday so you may have missed it.

Based on your insinuation that I need read books on Thai history and I was agreeing with Kraisak, I guess Kraisak also must need to read the same books. However that is a bit of a paradox that I would like for you to explain at some point. If he did not read the books it is fair to assume others in government also did not read the books. So if that is the case what is the relevance of the books you insist on?

I am very sorry, but you are out of your depth here. Unless you have omitted the usual qualifications necessary for "criminal profiling" on your website, such as advanced degrees in Psychology/Psychiatry in addition to years of experience in law enforcement, you simply are not qualified to do that. And that in addition that you have just not enough basic knowledge on the subject matter of Thai politics, history, culture, etc.

You agree with Kraisak. Do you have any idea about his personal history other than that he was a senator?

Colpyat, call it a hobby, I am not charging for it and I find it an enjoyable challenge to test how good my skills are and so far my score is on the high side. Just because I elect not to list many of my qualification does not mean they are not there. The reason are simple why I don’t and if you want to know them you can PM me. As for Kraisak, that for now is irrelevant. I am looking at the message and not the messenger as it applies to this thread and it was your post if I recall.

Now just to shed things in another light for you and this is the only mention of it I will make here. Meaning if you want to open a thread in the general section on it you are welcome.

All the wonderful books you are so insistent that I read are actually case histories of how people reacted to various situations and stimuli in the past. Any history book that talks about people and what they did is basically just a case history with another name, and it is all about human psychology. As you have pointed out on many occasions if I want to know what will happen and why I need to read the books.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, call it a hobby, I am not charging for it and I find it an enjoyable challenge to test how good my skills are and so far my score is on the high side. Just because I elect not to list many of my qualification does not mean they are not there. The reason are simple why I don’t and if you want to know them you can PM me. As for Kraisak, that for now is irrelevant. I am looking at the message and not the messenger as it applies to this thread and it was your post if I recall.

Now just to shed things in another light for you and this is the only mention of it I will make here. Meaning if you want to open a thread in the general section on it you are welcome.

All the wonderful books you are so insistent that I read are actually case histories of how people reacted to various situations and stimuli in the past. Any history book that talks about people and what they did is basically just a case history with another name, and it is all about human psychology. As you have pointed out on many occasions if I want to know what will happen and why I need to read the books.

I don't know what to say anymore.

Are you trying to tell me that because you are a hobby criminal profiler you won't need to inform yourself about history, anthropology, and political science, as related to Thailand especially, because you know a bit about psychology but don't have any advanced degrees in the subject?

[John K]

It all boils down to cause and effect mixed with personalities, egos, greed, and the desire of some for total power. That tends to be deeper than culture so in many cases you could change the cover of the book, rename the places and you would never know the difference.

[ColPyat]

It all boils down to cause and effect mixed with personalities, egos, greed, and the desire of some for total power. That tends to be deeper than culture so in many cases you could change the cover of the book, rename the places and you would never know the difference.

Great generalization.

And if you have no idea about Thailand's history, culture and society - all things that psychology alone cannot possibly explain as these subjects are covered by completely different branches of science - you will always have a very dim idea of which factors are actually involved in the chain reaction of cause and effect, and are bound to walk in the dark until you decide to educate yourself about the specifics.

Can we go back please to the demonstration, please? This is just getting too painful.

[John K]

as I said start a new thread so this thread will not get off topic.

Edited June 11, 2007 by John K

[farang prince]

That's quite a taffy pull that you two guys are engaged in. Now I know the cause of global warming....

[ColPyat]

BANGKOK: More than 8,000 Thais rallied in Bangkok yesterday - AFP

Thaksin’s allies, who have organised daily anti-junta protests, claimed some 40,000 people joined yesterday’s rally.

- AFP

=================

yep.... extremely inflated numbers coming out of ADD, PTV, and Thaksinistas.

I think an apology is in order now, SRJ, as now even the Bangkok post reports an estimated number of 20 000 protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119348

Army says police can handle mobs

Around 20,000 demonstrators marched to the army headquarters Saturday night and clashed with police.

[sriracha john]

People disagree with anti-coup rally: Polls

A Poll for a Poll, so to speak...

The poll you quoted was from 3,554 Thai adults, conducted from May 20 to May 26, 2007 in the metropolitan Bangkok area, Margin of error is 2.5 per cent. That is prior to the May 30 ruling which would defiantly changed the poll numbers if conducted after the verdicts.

=======================

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Former Opposition Leader Favoured by Thais

June 11, 2007

This poll was carried out in Bangkok after the tribunal verdicts. Seems over 20% of Bangkok's residents still want to see Thaksin in power.

and 75% want him and his hoodlums to <deleted>...

[sriracha john]

BANGKOK: More than 8,000 Thais rallied in Bangkok yesterday - AFP

Thaksin’s allies, who have organised daily anti-junta protests, claimed some 40,000 people joined yesterday’s rally.

- AFP

=================

yep.... extremely inflated numbers coming out of ADD, PTV, and Thaksinistas.

I think an apology is in order now, SRJ, as now even the Bangkok post reports an estimated number of 20 000 protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119348

Army says police can handle mobs

Around 20,000 demonstrators marched to the army headquarters Saturday night and clashed with police.

You want me to apologize for an official Agence France Presse's news article?

Sorry, but that's not in my purview...

How about PTV's claim of 40,000.... is in under your purview to apologize for those exaggerations?

Some more number figures...

About 13,000 protesters gathered at Sanam Luang - Associated Press

[ColPyat]

BANGKOK: More than 8,000 Thais rallied in Bangkok yesterday - AFP

Thaksin’s allies, who have organised daily anti-junta protests, claimed some 40,000 people joined yesterday’s rally.

- AFP

=================

yep.... extremely inflated numbers coming out of ADD, PTV, and Thaksinistas.

I think an apology is in order now, SRJ, as now even the Bangkok post reports an estimated number of 20 000 protesters.

http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119348

Army says police can handle mobs

Around 20,000 demonstrators marched to the army headquarters Saturday night and clashed with police.

You want me to apologize for an official Agence France Presse's news article?

Sorry, but that's not in my purview...

How about PTV's claim of 40,000.... is in under your purview to apologize for those exaggerations?

Some more number figures...

About 13,000 protesters gathered at Sanam Luang - Associated Press

As i am not part of PTV or any other group, i have nothing to do with what they claim.

I posted here my personal estimate of about 20 000, which was attacked by you and a few others in the usual not very polite manner (no, i am not a "Thaksinista"). Now this number was correlated by the Bangkok Post as well, and other reports speak of about 15 000, which also is far closer to my estimate than what you came up with.

But yes, as quick as you are with personal attacks, as slow you are to accept having been wrong with your accusations and to apologize for that.

Rather sad.

[Johpa]

When you finally start understanding that this is not some sort of epic battle between "good" and "evil", "Thaksin" and "Gen. Sondhi", but a far more complex issue that explains itself through several decades of Thai history (it would really be advantageous to read some books here, in the long form).

And no, one dos not need to be a hypnotic profiler to predict that there are some very unstable times ahead. And that will not be just the next days or weeks or months, but many years. We are just at the preliminary rounds of huge social upheavals in Thailand.

The larger issue is not terribly complex: it is all a matter of which group is going to claim the biggest slice of the pie, which group is going to be able to kin muang more than the other groups. Or will some of the newer groups insist on a more equitable division of the spoils. And since no one group is in a dominant position, there is lots of movement surrounding the traditional entrenched centers of power such as the Democratic Party, the Bureaucratic polity, the military, the police, and the old sakdina aristocracy. The complexities are in the ever shifting alliances.

But I agree with you that we are in the preliminary rounds here of more significant social upheaval as new centers of power emerge and others weaken. For example, Thaksin represented an unforseen, by the existing powers, emergence of a new power center, based upon the wealth generated by his monopolies in the areas of communications and technology. Now monopolies are not new in Thailand, but I doubt the old guard, you know rice, tapioca, and cement style monopolist familes, or even Thaksin himself, initially recognized the manna from heaven that flowed from monopolies based upon more modern technologies.

Apart from nouveau riche members of the elite who also want a generous share of the pie, we also have a greatly expanded middle class attempting to have a voice, not to mention a rural electorate that is far better educated and informed than earlier generations. Sometimes I think that members of the elite, with the likes of Sonthi Limthongkul, are trying hard to prevent the middle class from uniting with the rural folks with a divide and conquor campaign based upon fear. But the fear is perceptible amongst all the players now as they look into the future and see the inevitable great change upon the horizon, but still unable to read the tea leaves.

[sriracha john]

When did I come up with ANY estimates?

If I cite various news agency reports, these are not MY estimates. Can you see how that works?

but irregardless of this number or that number... I see no body supporting PTV's exaggerated figure of 40,000.

Edited June 11, 2007 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

When did I come up with ANY estimates?

If I cite various news agency reports, these are not MY estimates. Can you see how that works?

but irregardless of this number or that number... I see no body supporting PTV's exaggerated figure of 40,000.

You came up though with personal snides.

But whatever, what else would i expect.

Lets go back to the topic, please.

[ColPyat]

The larger issue is not terribly complex:

Learning the basics, it is not that enormously complex.

Well, other than that many factors cannot be debated about in public outside purely academic discussions, and even there extreme caution has to be used.

The two for me most unpredictable factors are the increasingly educated and outspoken rural population, and the mostly from the rural sectors emerging urban worker class. Those classes have to a large part supported Thaksin, and now it really is going to be interesting to follow the development of those classes.

[Jai Dee]

Metropolitan Police Chief insists no report of the movement outside Bangkok

The Metropolitan Police Chief Adisorn Nonsee (อดิศร นนทรีย์) said he has not heard of any movements from undercurrents in provinces outside of Bangkok.

Metro Police Chief Adisorn says although PTV groups have spread their demonstrations outside of Sanam Luang to the Army HQ, he still insists that his forces use the softer approach when dealing with the demonstrators. He further said he has instructed his unit to collect and audio and visual recordings on a daily basis as a form of evidence should cases occur.

The Metro Police Chief denies the movement of the people outside Bangkok, adding that he has not yet received reports of unrests.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 11 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

CNS is worried about people who misunderstand political situation

The Council for National Security (CNS) admits that it is concerned for members of the public who do not understand the current political situation accurately.

Gen. Somjet Boonthanom, (สมเจตน์ บุญถนอม), the CNS Deputy Secretary-General, the CNS will have a meeting today (Jun 11) to talk about the anti-CNS demonstration. The CNS members will analyze the situation and seek ways to address the problem.

Gen. Somjet says the CNS has not closely followed the protestors’ demand for the CNS members to step down within days. However, he says the CNS has ordered security officials to maintain order during the rally.

This morning, the Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC) had a meeting to determine whether the demonstration will escalate into violence. The ISOC will coordinate with all security-related units and intelligence agencies so problems would be solved quickly.

The ISOC is preparing to televise Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont’s speech on the image of Thailand through all state-owned channels soon.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 11 June 2007

[Mid]

The Council for National Security (CNS) admits that it is concerned for members of the public who do not understand the current political situation accurately.

respectfully sir , I would contend that they understand far too well .......................................

[Plus]

So PTV were able to bring thousands of thugs looking for an excuse to beat up somebody. Hardly a political force.

Their voices should not be recognised until they renounce violence - this is basics. Otherwise it's a form of terrorism:"We'll create mayhem until you do as we say".

Should rally organisers be held responsible if something happens? Did they try their best to stop people from attacking Kraisak? Did they make a half hearted effort?

[jdinasia]

So PTV were able to bring thousands of thugs looking for an excuse to beat up somebody. Hardly a political force.

Their voices should not be recognised until they renounce violence - this is basics. Otherwise it's a form of terrorism:"We'll create mayhem until you do as we say".

Should rally organisers be held responsible if something happens? Did they try their best to stop people from attacking Kraisak? Did they make a half hearted effort?

Or did someone with a mic point him out to the crowd?

[Tony Clifton]

People disagree with anti-coup rally: Polls

A Poll for a Poll, so to speak...

The poll you quoted was from 3,554 Thai adults, conducted from May 20 to May 26, 2007 in the metropolitan Bangkok area, Margin of error is 2.5 per cent. That is prior to the May 30 ruling which would defiantly changed the poll numbers if conducted after the verdicts.

=======================

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Former Opposition Leader Favoured by Thais

June 11, 2007

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - The leader of Thailand’s Democratic Party - Phak Prachatipat (PP) is very popular in Bangkok, according to a poll by Bangkok University Research Institute. 39 per cent of respondents in Thailand’s capital would prefer to have Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister after the next general election.

Deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of the Thai Love Thais Party - Phak Thai Rak Thai (TRT) is second with 21.5 per cent,

Full Article.

======================

This poll was carried out in Bangkok after the tribunal verdicts. Seems over 20% of Bangkok's residents still want to see Thaksin in power.

One could also say the poll was carried out prior to upcoming verdicts in court cases that don't look to good for Thaksin and his 20%.

[younghusband]

So PTV were able to bring thousands of thugs looking for an excuse to beat up somebody. Hardly a political force.

Their voices should not be recognised until they renounce violence - this is basics. Otherwise it's a form of terrorism:"We'll create mayhem until you do as we say".

Should rally organisers be held responsible if something happens? Did they try their best to stop people from attacking Kraisak? Did they make a half hearted effort?

Did he make an effort to understand what really happened? Did he fall without thinking into accepting the "official" version of events? Did he suspect for a nanosecond that Kraisak might have attempting to provoke an incident, whether intoxicated or not? Does he blindly accept and endorse everthing this discredited junta inflictson the country? Can he not see that the coup was the ultimate form of violent terrorism?

[Plus]

The man was assaulted. Both BP and the Nation said he was talking to foreign journalists when the trouble started.

[ColPyat]

So PTV were able to bring thousands of thugs looking for an excuse to beat up somebody. Hardly a political force.

Their voices should not be recognised until they renounce violence - this is basics. Otherwise it's a form of terrorism:"We'll create mayhem until you do as we say".

Should rally organisers be held responsible if something happens? Did they try their best to stop people from attacking Kraisak? Did they make a half hearted effort?

Read my posts.

The organizers have never incited violence.

First you ridicule the demonstrations, stating since day one that there won't be many people. Even a few days ago you stated that there won't be many participants, and that all will go away. Now, proven wrong in your prediction, you label all protesters as "thugs" that were organized.

[ColPyat]

The man was assaulted. Both BP and the Nation said he was talking to foreign journalists when the trouble started.

And several reports said that he appeared to be intoxicated, including the "daily news".

He was assaulted and saved the exact same way the lone Thaksin supporters were during the PAD demonstrations, as was reported at the time.

[jdinasia]

Here a rather comical incident that could have ended tragic. Why on earth would Kraisak walk alone to a demonstration where thousands of people hate his guts for his involvement with the PAD, and not expect to be attacked? Jesus, even in the far more peaceful PAD crowd Thaksin supporters were physically attacked and had to be rescued by the police. Unbelievable...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30036478

Kraisak alleged protesters provocative with ulterior motives

Former senator Kraisak Chonhavan said Sunday that anti-coup protesters were apparently inciting violence with ulterior motives.

Kraisak was speaking to a press conference during which he recounted a physical attack against him by some protesters Saturday night.

Kraisak said he went to observe the demonstration by the so-called pro-democracy front against dictatorship in front of the Army headquarters Saturday night because he noticed a lot people joined the rally.

Kraisak said he wanted to observe the rally because he had sympathy for many former Thai Rak Thai executives who were banned from politics for five years although they had not done anything wrong so he would like to observe whether the rally was related to the ban or not.

Kraisak said he was speaking to foreign reporters at the rally site when someone on a mobile public addressing unit shouted that he should go home and leave the rally.

He said he walked to the person, telling him that he would like to listen to the speakers of the rally but while he was explaining his stand, a group of young men attacked him by kicking and punching him and throwing objects to him.

He said a few policemen rescued him from the scene. He added that he would not file a complaint with police against his attackers.

The Nation

But strangely now the villains are saying he was drunk .... yet the foriegn press didn't report that

oh wait a guy with a Mic points him out to the crowd .... but they were not inciting violence .... oi!