ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[HighPriority]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

A very lengthy justification of an expensive purchase. Which is OK if you are an EV worshiper, or a car worshiper in general. To me, they are a tool to get me from point A to point B, preferably with no fuss. Performance, and bells and whistles don't matter to me. I don't drive any faster than 100 km/hr. The only coddling my cars get is regular maintenance and always Michelin tires.

 

At my age, I would be battling to rack up 5000 km a year. I travel to Chiang Mai from Chiang Rai about 4 times a year, that's the extent of my distance excursions.

 

So what's the point of me owning a million baht vehicle of either description? Dress it up any way you want, a car is a depreciating asset. Financially, I am better off driving the Vios, which my mechanic swears will outlive me.

 

I suppose I should thank EV's for one aspect, if the Vios does die, they are driving down the prices of low mileage secondhand ICE's.

Buy yourself a bike… 🙄

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

A very lengthy justification of an expensive purchase. Which is OK if you are an EV worshiper, or a car worshiper in general. To me, they are a tool to get me from point A to point B, preferably with no fuss. Performance, and bells and whistles don't matter to me. I don't drive any faster than 100 km/hr. The only coddling my cars get is regular maintenance and always Michelin tires.

 

At my age, I would be battling to rack up 5000 km a year. I travel to Chiang Mai from Chiang Rai about 4 times a year, that's the extent of my distance excursions.

 

So what's the point of me owning a million baht vehicle of either description? Dress it up any way you want, a car is a depreciating asset. Financially, I am better off driving the Vios, which my mechanic swears will outlive me.

 

I suppose I should thank EV's for one aspect, if the Vios does die, they are driving down the prices of low mileage secondhand ICE's.

No need to justify the purchase, just explaining how much more economical it is to operate & maintain.   Much less than an ICEV.

 

I think the numbers went over your head.  Over the life of our BEV, we will have saved almost the cost of the initial purchase.  As we do rack up the kms.  20k the first, second 20k took a bit longer, over 1 year.   Rack up the same kms, and an ICEV will cost you the price of the car, to operate & maintain.

 

That's a damn economical purchase, comfy and performs nicely.  If waited 2.5 yrs, then could have save ฿220k on purchase price ... BUT ... loss the same, due to more depreciation of car we sold, and loss of petrol savings on the 45k kms we racked up.  Also missed out on driving a better performing car.

 

This is probably the last car I'll own, and definitely the last car the wife will own, as she won't rack up the kms after I crap out.  And she's 22 yrs younger.   She'll be driving it for another 20 yrs or more.  If she puts 20 kms on a week, that would be a lot for her.

 

Now, about same buy in cost for ICEV & BEV

BEV ... 20k local kms, cost ฿13k a year, charging at home (PEA/MEA)

ICEV ... 20k local kms, cost ฿46k a year. (14 kpL @ ฿32 / Liter)

 

What ever makes one happy.

HAPPY TRAVELS ... Be Safe

 

(adjusted petrol cost, as down from ฿35 to ฿32 / L ... for now)

 

[Lacessit]

59 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No need to justify the purchase, just explaining how much more economical it is to operate & maintain.   Much less than an ICEV.

 

I think the numbers went over your head.  Over the life of our BEV, we will have saved almost the cost of the initial purchase.  As we do rack up the kms.  20k the first, second 20k took a bit longer, over 1 year.   Rack up the same kms, and an ICEV will cost you the price of the car, to operate & maintain.

 

That's a damn economical purchase, comfy and performs nicely.  If waited 2.5 yrs, then could have save ฿220k on purchase price ... BUT ... loss the same, due to more depreciation of car we sold, and loss of petrol savings on the 45k kms we racked up.  Also missed out on driving a better performing car.

 

This is probably the last car I'll own, and definitely the last car the wife will own, as she won't rack up the kms after I crap out.  And she's 22 yrs younger.   She'll be driving it for another 20 yrs or more.  If she puts 20 kms on a week, that would be a lot for her.

 

Now, about same buy in cost for ICEV & BEV

BEV ... 20k local kms, cost ฿13k a year, charging at home (PEA/MEA)

ICEV ... 20k local kms, cost ฿46k a year. (14 kpL @ ฿32 / Liter)

 

What ever makes one happy.

HAPPY TRAVELS ... Be Safe

 

(adjusted petrol cost, as down from ฿35 to ฿32 / L ... for now)

 

I understand your numbers. I don't dispute them, at an annual use of 20,000 km.

 

I am talking about 5000 km a year, if that. The initial capital cost, to me, is not justifiable. Perhaps some of my Scots genes are kicking in.

 

I am also quite confident my Thai GF will be happier ( 23 years younger than me ) to be inheriting an extra 1 million baht than a car losing value every year it is on the road. She will do even less kilometres than me.

 

Each to his own, safe travels to you too.

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I understand your numbers. I don't dispute them, at an annual use of 20,000 km.

 

I am talking about 5000 km a year, if that. The initial capital cost, to me, is not justifiable. Perhaps some of my Scots genes are kicking in.

 

I am also quite confident my Thai GF will be happier ( 23 years younger than me ) to be inheriting an extra 1 million baht than a car losing value every year it is on the road. She will do even less kilometres than me.

 

Each to his own, safe travels to you too.

5k kms a year ... not sure I'd even bother with owning a car 

 

Reality is, for us, we don't even 'need' a car, for local driving.  Everything we need, is less than 5 kms away.   We could easily get by with just the MB, Ebike, or pedal bike.  Can actually walk to local vendors, 300 meters away & 7-11,  just opened a new one, <2 kms away, which is a couple 100m away from the next, down the same road.

 

We have sixteen 7-11s, serving <30k people 

 

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

5k kms a year ... not sure I'd even bother with owning a car 

 

Reality is, for us, we don't even 'need' a car, for local driving.  Everything we need, is less than 5 kms away.   We could easily get by with just the MB, Ebike, or pedal bike.  Can actually walk to local vendors, 300 meters away & 7-11,  just opened a new one, <2 kms away, which is a couple 100m away from the next, down the same road.

 

We have sixteen 7-11s, serving <30k people 

 

I currently use a scooter around Chiang Rai, for shopping.

 

I know there will come a time when I will have to surrender the convenience of the scooter for the safer option of four wheels.

[KhunLA]

45 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I currently use a scooter around Chiang Rai, for shopping.

 

I know there will come a time when I will have to surrender the convenience of the scooter for the safer option of four wheels.

Never ... not giving up my MB, a BEV also 

 

Now that is a major upgrade, as long as you don't need range or top end.  The 125 Wave sat in the carport for years.  Only drove to top up fuel & tires.  We sold it, and following month, I bought the E-MB.

 

Wife was like ... "WTF, we didn't drive the Wave" 

She loves it 

 

Dog loves it also ... 

 

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Never ... not giving up my MB, a BEV also 

 

Now that is a major upgrade, as long as you don't need range or top end.  The 125 Wave sat in the carport for years.  Only drove to top up fuel & tires.  We sold it, and following month, I bought the E-MB.

 

Wife was like ... "WTF, we didn't drive the Wave" 

She loves it 

 

Dog loves it also ... 

 

My Yamaha TTX was bought secondhand as well, 9000 km. It's now at 35,000 km, still running sweetly.

 

I bought a Chinese electric scooter in Australia, the type you assemble yourself. Range about 8 km, top speed 30 km/hr.

 

Where I lived in Australia, there could be side winds of 50-60 km/hr on the foreshore. I sold it to a neighbor for what I paid for it, when I moved to Thailand.

 

Nice looking dog. They love having their noses in the wind.

[Pib]

 

Is that hills/islands in the background OR Tesla/Neta stock market price?😜

 

[LosLobo]

On 6/6/2025 at 1:56 PM, KhunLA said:

@Lacessit  continue over here, as off topic enough, talking about my replies, let alone ROI on vehicles in that thread.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1362851-my-wife-wanted-me-to-sign-a-document-any-money-she-gets-is-hers/page/3/#comment-19851553

 

... "You shelled out what? 800,000 baht for an EV? More? ... I bought a 2006 Toyota Vios for 230,000 baht about 12 years ago. It had 83,000 km on the odometer. I've done 120,000 km in it, never missed a beat. It's worth about 80,000 baht now.  ...  That's 12,500 baht a year in depreciation. What's yours, Mr. Financial Genius?" ... 

 

First off, MG ZS & T. Vios is not an apples & apples comparison.  Along with new vs 2nd hand purchase & depreciation, as most is loss simply driving off the lot.  Depends if keeping till vehicle dies, or not drivable any more, and then worth what.  

 

We energize ours with 'excess' solar, if driving 20k kms a year locally, that's ~฿59k a year saved vs petrol.   Just during the 8 yr warranty, that's ฿400k saved.  Still retains 70-80% battery capacity.  Actually more, but I think warranty states 70 or 80%

 

If having to pay PEA/MEA to charge at home, still save ฿40k a year.  Actually cost calculation between MG ZS EV & ICE, as we owned both.

 

New versions, S5, has a lifetime battery warranty, any owner.  Easy to sell 2nd hand if wanting.  Though at 10 years old, no car bought for <฿750k is going to be worth much.  Just keep or give to one of the kids.  What we did with our 7 yr old Mazda 2.  She smartly sold it, before it's impending death and bought an Atto 3.

 

Estimated (conservation), life span of LFP battery (MG ZS), 2500 cycles, or 920k kms or 46 years @ 20k kms a year, and still retains 70% of battery capacity.   So that car will never be sold.  When the rest can keep up with the battery, the battery pack will be added to the solar.   46.3kWh usable X 70% = 32kWh, or ฿130k if bought today.  2X 15kWh ESS @ ฿65K each.

 

Adds value when the car dies, instead of, ICEV - simply parts sold & scrap metal by weight, or, BEV - parts sold, battery pack sold, or, repurposed for your solar, to live on, a couple more decades of use.

 

Numbers ... paid ฿949k for our ZS (no price war)

Insured value, 2.5 yrs owning, ฿590 (?)

New price now ... ฿829k (supposedly future ZSs - hybrids)

New replacement model (S5) ... ฿739k

About same price as the under performing top end Yaris/Vios.

For apples to apples price point comparison.  Though cost to operate ICEV, is 4X as much, wen charging at home, without solar, instead of buying petrol. 

 

Or better comparison, sedan / sedan, Yaris/Vios and MG4, priced at only ฿609k, same lifetime battery, same savings over buying petrol.

 

For easy math ... cost of ownership for 10 yrs

... BEV @ ฿600K save ฿40k year (no petrol, 10 yrs) =  ฿400k saved = ?

... ICEV @ ฿600K cost ฿400k extra (over 10 yrs, petrol) =  ?

 

#1 ... I wonl't buy a 2nd hand car here, I prefer new

#2 ... at this stage in ife, I wouldn't buy a 7 yr old car

We sold 3 cars at the 7 yr / 125k kms mark

(2025 - 12 yrs = 2013-7 yrs = 2006)

#3 ... it wouldn't be a Vios, (owned 2), I prefer better comfort & performance now.

 

And yes, buying 2nd hand and keeping till dies, is usually (pre-BEV),  a better economic value, and exactly what I did when living in USA, with 1 exception, and that was a work truck, as needing dependability. 

 

Now, 'fact is' ...  long game is owning a BEV, whether new, or better savings, 2nd hand.

... BEV cost the same or less

... they perform better

... cost less to operate & maintain

... go MG (nice line up; MG4 or S5), and never worry about the battery ... NEVER 

 

2006, a 2nd hand car was the way to go, if not wanting new.  2025, no, fool's folly.

Here are the real numbers, stripped of marketing gloss:

• Depreciation – An MG ZS electric crossover loses about 50 % of its purchase price in less than three years, roughly 475,000 baht.
• Solar setup cost – A 5-kilowatt rooftop array costs around 150,000 – 200,000 baht; any “free” electricity only shows up after 5 – 7 years of pay-back time.
• Annual energy at 20,000 km – The MG ZS electric car costs about 12,000 baht in electricity while say a Toyota Yaris Ativ petrol sedan costs about 46,000 baht in fuel. That is a 2-to-1 gap not 4-to-1.
• “Lifetime” battery warranty – Skipping a scheduled MG service voids it; read the fine print.
• Long-life battery, shorter-life car – Even if the battery pack survives 900,000 km, the suspension, electronics, and bodywork will not.

Net result: you save roughly 34,000 baht a year on energy but lose well over 120,000 baht a year once depreciation and the cost of a solar array are counted.
 

Bottom line: even with rooftop solar already paid for, the ZS may save tens of thousands in fuel yet still burns well over a hundred-thousand baht in lost value every year—next to, say, a Toyota Yaris Ativ, the maths stays deep in the red.

[KhunLA]

40 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Here are the real numbers, stripped of marketing gloss:

• Depreciation – An MG ZS electric crossover loses about 50 % of its purchase price in less than three years, roughly 475,000 baht.
• Solar setup cost – A 5-kilowatt rooftop array costs around 150,000 – 200,000 baht; any “free” electricity only shows up after 5 – 7 years of pay-back time.
• Annual energy at 20,000 km – The MG ZS electric car costs about 12,000 baht in electricity while say a Toyota Yaris Ativ petrol sedan costs about 46,000 baht in fuel. That is a 2-to-1 gap not 4-to-1.
• “Lifetime” battery warranty – Skipping a scheduled MG service voids it; read the fine print.
• Long-life battery, shorter-life car – Even if the battery pack survives 900,000 km, the suspension, electronics, and bodywork will not.

Net result: you save roughly 34,000 baht a year on energy but lose well over 120,000 baht a year once depreciation and the cost of a solar array are counted.
 

Bottom line: even with rooftop solar already paid for, the ZS may save tens of thousands in fuel yet still burns well over a hundred-thousand baht in lost value every year—next to, say, a Toyota Yaris Ativ, the maths stays deep in the red.

You can't count the solar install, unless specifically installed for the BEV.  Which would be stupid.   We contracted the house, and bought the MG ZS ICE version about the same time.  Had no intentions of owning a BEV at that time.  Only the ZS was available & expensive.  House took almost 2 yrs to build.  Which time we contracted solar along the way.  

 

Once house & solar done, they updated the ZS BEV version, to larger and better (LFP) chemistry.  And knock 240k off the price with govt incentives.  Already having solar, seemed a no brainer.

 

As 12k X 4 = 48k, just a tad over 46k.   As I posed, I updated the petrol cost, as old numbers & memory were based on 35 baht a L.

 

10 year old car's depreciation is sort of irrelevant, if bough at 600k +/-, which both the MG4 & Vios cost (apples to apples).  Both won't be worth much, but the savings if racking up the kms, adds up quick.  34k saved, instead of spent, is a bit of extra pocket change over 10 yrs.

 

Added performance is nice also.  Along with adding battery pack to solar, or selling, when car becomes undrivable.  Electric motors would get a better price also, verses and old ICE.

 

Still way ahead with a BEV, especially now at the low price points.

MG4 569k

Yaris 549k

https://www.mgcars.com/th/promotions

https://www.toyota.co.th/en/pricelist