Meta v Matrix

[bradiston]

The Meta. Is this the Matrix in all but name?

[kekalot]

it's more meant to be like that movie Ready Player One, look it up if you're not familiar with it.

[bradiston]

4 minutes ago, kekalot said:

it's more meant to be like that movie Ready Player One, look it up if you're not familiar with it.

Seen it. But that's just for gaming. I don't believe that's what they have in mind.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:42 PM, bradiston said:

The Meta. Is this the Matrix in all but name?

Some explanation would help. We don't all spend our lives behind a screen.

[patman30]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:40 PM, bradiston said:

Seen it. But that's just for gaming. I don't believe that's what they have in mind.

its the same thing, the gaming arena is where social media happens for many of younger generation
this is what a meta world becomes, which is like a stepping stone towards the matrix.
an interesting show to watch is Upload
if you can see through the programming
you will realize how sinister this can all be

[patman30]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some explanation would help. We don't all spend our lives behind a screen.

"Meta" is the the new name of facebook
and is also a term used for virtual world
where your "digital twin" your avatar does everything in VR

it can lead to a very dark place like in ready player one
where people end up being content in a box with VR

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, patman30 said:

"Meta" is the the new name of facebook
and is also a term used for virtual world
where your "digital twin" your avatar does everything in VR

it can lead to a very dark place like in ready player one
where people end up being content in a box with VR

Thank you. I didn't know that, but I refuse to use facethingy, so wouldn't.

 

I won't comment as I know nothing personally about facethingy or the twit thing or suchlike. This forum is the only one I go on.

[bradiston]

11 minutes ago, patman30 said:

"Meta" is the the new name of facebook
and is also a term used for virtual world
where your "digital twin" your avatar does everything in VR

it can lead to a very dark place like in ready player one
where people end up being content in a box with VR

That's what occurred to me. I know very little of what Zuckerberg has in mind, but it seemed there were parallels with the Matrix virtual world, if it can be described as such. Even now, I'm plugged in most of my waking life, via my phone. Unplugging even from the current level of virtuality would be difficult for me, and I'm not even into VR or gaming. I know how addictive gaming is. I know how addictive coding can be. And just FB, online forums, such as this, soak up a lot of hours. Seems my brain was custom made for a Metaverse/Matrix that controls my life.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

That's what occurred to me. I know very little of what Zuckerberg has in mind, but it seemed there were parallels with the Matrix virtual world, if it can be described as such. Even now, I'm plugged in most of my waking life, via my phone. Unplugging even from the current level of virtuality would be difficult for me, and I'm not even into VR or gaming. I know how addictive gaming is. I know how addictive coding can be. And just FB, online forums, such as this, soak up a lot of hours. Seems my brain was custom made for a Metaverse/Matrix that controls my life.

IMO the only way to avoid being sucked into some virtual on line world is to avoid as much as possible anything to do with on line eg I only use real money; very rarely a card, though when the bank was closed at new year I had to use a card to get real money from an ATM to purchase something. I have an e mail account as dentists etc use that for appointments, and I spend time on this forum- too much time, as it isn't just gaming that is addictive.

Otherwise, I have a phone that is just for calls, nothing on line; I have a real camera ( though it is digital as there just isn't the affordable infrastructure for film any more ) - I don't use a phone to take photos, I use DVDs for movies, not off the internet ( op shops sell them for 50 cents to $2-50 ), and I always leave the phone behind when I'm working outside. I think I'm as unconnected as it's possible to get in this Brave New World I inhabit, though it's not of my choosing.

Were it possible I'd live in a world that had 1970s technology. I loved being alive in the 70s and was able to do everything I wanted to, despite no internet.

 

I can't help wondering what will happen if the internet stopped working for some reason eg hacking, war, the sun emitting a pulse that destroyed all electronics etc. I don't think it would end well.

[bradiston]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the only way to avoid being sucked into some virtual on line world is to avoid as much as possible anything to do with on line eg I only use real money; very rarely a card, though when the bank was closed at new year I had to use a card to get real money from an ATM to purchase something. I have an e mail account as dentists etc use that for appointments, and I spend time on this forum- too much time, as it isn't just gaming that is addictive.

Otherwise, I have a phone that is just for calls, nothing on line; I have a real camera ( though it is digital as there just isn't the affordable infrastructure for film any more ) - I don't use a phone to take photos, I use DVDs for movies, not off the internet ( op shops sell them for 50 cents to $2-50 ), and I always leave the phone behind when I'm working outside. I think I'm as unconnected as it's possible to get in this Brave New World I inhabit, though it's not of my choosing.

Were it possible I'd live in a world that had 1970s technology. I loved being alive in the 70s and was able to do everything I wanted to, despite no internet.

 

I can't help wondering what will happen if the internet stopped working for some reason eg hacking, war, the sun emitting a pulse that destroyed all electronics etc. I don't think it would end well.

No. I mean all of us being held in a state of suspended animation somewhere, stacked 10,000 high and 1,000,000 across, would either die or wake up. Not what Sugarhill wants. With 99% of the population living in a virtual world, which takes up no actual space, apart from that occupied by the 10 billion bodies whose brains are generating their very own virtual world, the other 1% have the whole planet to themselves. Jeff and Mark and Elon, and selected chums, that is.

 

[bradiston]

6 hours ago, bradiston said:

No. I mean all of us being held in a state of suspended animation somewhere, stacked 10,000 high and 1,000,000 across, would either die or wake up. Not what Sugarhill wants. With 99% of the population living in a virtual world, which takes up no actual space, apart from that occupied by the 10 billion bodies whose brains are generating their very own virtual world, the other 1% have the whole planet to themselves. Jeff and Mark and Elon, and selected chums, that is.

 

And  Bill. Microsoft are buying Activision for $69 billion. Seems virtualization is the way forward, now that the weaknesses of globalisation have been exposed by Covid.

[The Hammer2021]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some explanation would help. We don't all spend our lives behind a screen.

In front of

[Tippaporn]

22 hours ago, patman30 said:

its the same thing, the gaming arena is where social media happens for many of younger generation
this is what a meta world becomes, which is like a stepping stone towards the matrix.
an interesting show to watch is Upload
if you can see through the programming
you will realize how sinister this can all be

Check out Joe Allen if one wants to learn more about transhumanism, which I believe is where Zuck wants to go with this.  There are lots of important people, including China, pursuing this with mega financial backing.  It's an in depth subject and I agree, it has the very real potential to become quite sinister in, as usual, the wrong hands.

Mark Zuckerberg Is Planting The First Church Of The Metaverse

 

Now the idea of uploading one's self to a virtual environment to either prolong life or exist forever is, in my opinion, impossible without question.  For one you'd have to be able to locate one's consciousness, one's life force.  Good luck with that.  Assuming that were possible then the task would be to figure out how to transfer consciousness, existing in whatever unknown medium it currently resides in, into some silica medium.  Let's not even think about compatibility issues.  Good luck with that.

One other small consideration.  If consciousness survives death (and as of yet that scenario cannot be ruled out), and I believe it does survive, then what's the point of trying to evade death to live in some cheap replica of reality created by the likes of some Bill Gates?  Blue screen, anyone?  Crashes?  Stuck in an endless loop?  Lousy code?  Oops, someone unplugged your chord.  LOL

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Meanwhile in California:

 

1) The homeless encampments continue to grow.

2) The stores continue being ransacked with smash and grab looting.

3) The trains are now being broken into as they move along the tracks, and looted of all that wonderful online ordering.

 

The apparent solution? Strap on Zuck's VR glasses and dive into his Metaverse, free of all those bothersome problems.

 

He might even go slap his name on another hospital for good measure.

[patman30]

33 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Now the idea of uploading one's self to a virtual environment to either prolong life or exist forever is, in my opinion, impossible without question. 

agreed, this is where it can get sinister
i have seen quite a few programs that have similar concepts where people can be uploaded
they are programming the next gens for this imo.
to accept it as a possibility, it would also be easy to fake with video calls to others who uploaded,
once they have you in the meta there will be no way of ever knowing if you are interacting with bots or people

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Meanwhile in California:

 

1) The homeless encampments continue to grow.

2) The stores continue being ransacked with smash and grab looting.

3) The trains are now being broken into as they move along the tracks, and looted of all that wonderful online ordering.

 

The apparent solution? Strap on Zuck's VR glasses and dive into his Metaverse, free of all those bothersome problems.

 

He might even go slap his name on another hospital for good measure.

Silly humans.

[Tippaporn]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

agreed, this is where it can get sinister
i have seen quite a few programs that have similar concepts where people can be uploaded
they are programming the next gens for this imo.
to accept it as a possibility, it would also be easy to fake with video calls to others who uploaded,
once they have you in the meta there will be no way of ever knowing if you are interacting with bots or people

They're encouraging everyone to get digitally plugged to the point of dependency.  Who has their finger on the switch to unplug you?

[Tippaporn]

A phony clown show metaverse brought to you by a phony clown of a human being.
 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Check out Joe Allen if one wants to learn more about transhumanism, which I believe is where Zuck wants to go with this.  There are lots of important people, including China, pursuing this with mega financial backing.  It's an in depth subject and I agree, it has the very real potential to become quite sinister in, as usual, the wrong hands.

Mark Zuckerberg Is Planting The First Church Of The Metaverse

 

Now the idea of uploading one's self to a virtual environment to either prolong life or exist forever is, in my opinion, impossible without question.  For one you'd have to be able to locate one's consciousness, one's life force.  Good luck with that.  Assuming that were possible then the task would be to figure out how to transfer consciousness, existing in whatever unknown medium it currently resides in, into some silica medium.  Let's not even think about compatibility issues.  Good luck with that.

One other small consideration.  If consciousness survives death (and as of yet that scenario cannot be ruled out), and I believe it does survive, then what's the point of trying to evade death to live in some cheap replica of reality created by the likes of some Bill Gates?  Blue screen, anyone?  Crashes?  Stuck in an endless loop?  Lousy code?  Oops, someone unplugged your chord.  LOL

The Dune books got there first. One of the parts of the history are of cybernetic machines that carry a human brain around for millennia. Nothing is really impossible, but hopefully not in my lifetime.

 

Vanilla Sky ( Tom Cruise movie ) deals with  being in a computer generated world after death of the body.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Meanwhile in California:

 

1) The homeless encampments continue to grow.

2) The stores continue being ransacked with smash and grab looting.

3) The trains are now being broken into as they move along the tracks, and looted of all that wonderful online ordering.

 

The apparent solution? Strap on Zuck's VR glasses and dive into his Metaverse, free of all those bothersome problems.

 

He might even go slap his name on another hospital for good measure.

If everyone is in a virtual world how do the mega rich make money off them? Thinks........ perhaps plug them into some sort of power station, like human batteries? Oh, was that already thought of?

 

Perhaps the plan is to make life so unpleasant for most of us that we willingly opt for the virtual.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Now the idea of uploading one's self to a virtual environment to either prolong life or exist forever is, in my opinion, impossible without question.  For one you'd have to be able to locate one's consciousness, one's life force.  Good luck with that.  Assuming that were possible then the task would be to figure out how to transfer consciousness, existing in whatever unknown medium it currently resides in, into some silica medium.  Let's not even think about compatibility issues.  Good luck with that.

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Of course it's possible. Our brains function on electricity. Biological electricity is the same as digital electricity, ergo possible to transfer electrical impulses from human brain to digital media. Wait till the AI super computer exists. No problem for it.

[bradiston]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555555555555555

Of course it's possible. Our brains function on electricity. Biological electricity is the same as digital electricity, ergo possible to transfer electrical impulses from human brain to digital media. Wait till the AI super computer exists. No problem for it.

Yes, and from a point of total ignorance on my part, what about quantum states where you could be both dead and alive at the same time?

[patman30]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555555555555555

Of course it's possible. Our brains function on electricity. Biological electricity is the same as digital electricity, ergo possible to transfer electrical impulses from human brain to digital media. Wait till the AI super computer exists. No problem for it.

A.I. doesnt work like that????
not in its current form anyway.

is it possible to manipulate a brain with electricity? Yes
will we be able to upload ourselves onto digital media? No.

"electrical impulses" being recorded are not what we are talking about
but conciousnesses being able to live and grow digitally,
and not a program based on an individual, but the individual soul itself.
you can prove me wrong when they "bring out the tech" lol
there is always the same catch.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555555555555555

Of course it's possible. Our brains function on electricity. Biological electricity is the same as digital electricity, ergo possible to transfer electrical impulses from human brain to digital media. Wait till the AI super computer exists. No problem for it.

Go ahead and physically locate your consciousness.  LOL  We are not our brains and search as you may you will never find your consciousness residing somewhere in your brain.  The brain is the physical counterpart of the mind.  The mind is not physical.  Now work that out.  How to upload something that is nonphysical into a physical apparatus.

There are many, many other reasons why it's not possible.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Yes, and from a point of total ignorance on my part, what about quantum states where you could be both dead and alive at the same time?

Flickering on and off.

[bradiston]

On 1/19/2022 at 1:43 PM, Tippaporn said:

Go ahead and physically locate your consciousness.  LOL  We are not our brains and search as you may you will never find your consciousness residing somewhere in your brain.  The brain is the physical counterpart of the mind.  The mind is not physical.  Now work that out.  How to upload something that is nonphysical into a physical apparatus.

There are many, many other reasons why it's not possible.

How about introducing imagination into the equation! I mean, I can imagine, ie visualize, a journey across Mars terrain, probably because I've seen it on a NASA video at some time. But, I can't imagine a dinner in a 3 star Michelin restaurant consisting of lobster and champagne. Well, maybe I can, but is this what Sugar Mountain is going to offer me? The Matrix was an all encompassing existence for those inside it, although the only inhabitants we meet are the agents Smith. The other inhabitants weren't aware of their "non existence". They had no consciousness. They were software creations, as evidenced by the programmer who asks Neo about the lady in the red dress.

 

Anyway, to return to imagination. Or dreams. Can these be captured and replayed? Developed, enhanced, realised? Will we all become part of somebody else's metaworld?

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

How about introducing imagination into the equation! I mean, I can imagine, ie visualize, a journey across Mars terrain, probably because I've seen it on a NASA video at some time. But, I can't imagine a dinner in a 3 star Michelin restaurant consisting of lobster and champagne. Well, maybe I can, but is this what Sugar Mountain is going to offer me? The Matrix was an all encompassing existence for those inside it, although the only inhabitants we meet are the agents Smith. The other inhabitants weren't aware of their "non existence". They had no consciousness. They were software creations, as evidenced by the programmer who asks Neo about the lady in the red dress.

 

Anyway, to return to imagination. Or dreams. Can these be captured and replayed? Developed, enhanced, realised? Will we all become part of somebody else's metaworld?

Imagination is a quality, a faculty, just as reasoning is.  What dreams are is, in my humble opinion, as little understood as our understanding of what consciousness is. or, in other words, what we are.  Hence one of the reasons I put forward to argue the impossibility of "uploading" ourselves into some machine.

 

I provide the following about dreams (and related matters) not because I expect that what it relates to be understood fully, or even partially.  That's not to say that one cannot intellectually or intuitively begin to grasp what it's attempting to describe.  I include it only to give an idea, a hint of the lack of our current knowledge as it relates to what life is in order to dispel any notion of the feasibility of capturing and transferring life itself into some computer as if it were no different than installing some app.

If one had even a slightly deeper understanding of what we are, of what life is, then not only would one immediately comprehend the impossibility of uploading our being to a machine one would understand, also, the absolute undesirability of confining ourselves to such an impoverished existence.

 

"In sleep and dream states you are involved in the same dimension of existence in which you will have your after-death experiences. You do not remember the most important part of these nightly adventures, and so those you do recall seem bizarre or chaotic as a rule. This is simply because in your present state of development you are not able to manipulate consciously within more than one environment.

 

(9:15.) Now, as you have memory of your waking life and as you retain a large body of such memory for daily physical encounters, and as this fount of memory provides you with a sense of daily continuity, so also does your dreaming self have an equally large body of memory. As there is continuity to your daily life, so there is continuity in your sleeping life.

 

A portion of you, therefore, is aware of each and every dream encounter and experience. Dreams are no more hallucinatory than your physical life is. Your waking physical self is the dreamer, as far as your dreaming self is concerned: You are the dreamer it sends on its way. Your daily experiences are the dreams that it dreams, so when you look at your dreaming self or consider it, you do so with a highly prejudiced eye, taking it for granted that your “reality” is real, and its reality is illusion.

 

(9:20.) Its reality is far more native to your being, however. If you do not find coherence in the dream state, it is because you have hypnotized yourselves into believing that none exists. Of course you try to translate your nightly adventures into physical terms upon awakening, and attempt to fit them into your often limited distortion of the nature of reality.

 

To some extent this is natural. You are focused in a daily life for a reason. You have adopted it as a challenge. But within its framework you are also meant to grow and develop, and to extend the limits of your consciousness. It is very difficult to admit that you are in many ways more effective and creative in the sleep state than the waking state, and somewhat shattering to admit that the dream body can indeed fly, defying both time and space. It is much easier to pretend that all such experiences are symbolic and not literal, to evolve complicated psychological theories, for example, to explain flying dreams.

 

The simple fact is that when you dream you are flying, you often are. In the dream state you operate under the same conditions, more or less, that are native to a consciousness not focused in physical reality. Many of your experiences, therefore, are precisely those you may meet after death. You may speak with dead friends or relatives, revisit the past, greet old classmates, walk down streets that existed fifty years earlier in physical time, travel through space without taking any physical time to do so, be met by guides, be instructed, teach others, perform meaningful work, solve problems, hallucinate.

 

In physical life there is a lag between the conception of an idea and its physical construction. In dream reality, this is not so. Therefore, the best way to become acquainted with after-death reality ahead of time, so to speak, is to explore and understand the nature of your own dreaming self. Not very many people want to take the time or energy.

 

In the sleeping state, you have memory of everyone you have ever met in your dreams, though you may or may not have met some of these people in your daytime existence. In the sleeping state you may have constant experience through the years with close associates who may live in another portion of the world entirely, and be strangers to you in the waking state.

 

As your daily endeavors have meaning and purpose, so do your dream adventures, and in these also you attain various goals of your own. These you will continue in the after-death experience. The vitality, force, life, and creativity behind your physical existence is generated in this other dimension. In other words, you are in many ways a fleshy projection of your dreaming self.

 

The dreaming self as you conceive of it, however, is but a shadow of its own reality, for the dreaming self is a psychological point of reference and, in your terms, [of] continuity, that brings together all portions of your identity. Of its deeper nature, only the most developed are aware. It represents, in other words, one strong uniting facet of your entire identity. Its experiences are as vivid and its “personality” as rich — in fact richer — in context as the physical personality you know.

 

Pretend for a moment that you are a child, and I am trying to undertake the particular chore of explaining to you what your most developed, adult self will be like — and in my explanation, I say that this adult self is to some extent already a part of you, an outgrowth or projection of what you are. And the child says, “But what will happen to me? Must I die to become this other self? I do not want to change. How can I ever be this adult self when it is not what I am now, without dying as what I am?”

 

I am in somewhat the same position when I try to explain to you the nature of this inner self, for while you can become aware of it in dreams, you cannot truly appreciate its maturity or abilities; yet they are yours in the same way that the man’s abilities belonged to the child. In the dream state you learn, among other things, how to construct your own physical reality day by day, just as after death you learn how to construct your next physical lifetime.

 

(10:07.) In dreams you solve the problems. In the daytime you are (only) consciously aware of the methods of problem solving that you learned in sleep. In dreams you set your goals, as after death you set the goals for another incarnation.

 

Now, no psychological structure is easy to describe in words. Simply to explain the nature of personality as it is generally known, all kinds of terms are used: id, subconscious, ego, superego; all of these to differentiate the interweaving actions that make up the physical personality. The dreaming self is just as complicated. So you can say that certain portions of it deal with physical reality, physical manipulation, and plans; some with deeper levels of creativity and achievement that insure physical survival; some with communication, with even more extensive elements of the personality now generally unknown; some with the continuing experience and existence of what you may call the soul or overall individual entity, the true multidimensional self."

—SS Chapter 10: Session 538, June 29, 1970

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/19/2022 at 5:53 PM, bradiston said:

Yes, and from a point of total ignorance on my part, what about quantum states where you could be both dead and alive at the same time?

Sadly, IMO some of the people I see around are the walking dead. They certainly act as if they are brainless.

 

Seriously, I think that in the context of the universe, anything is possible.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:42 PM, patman30 said:

A.I. doesnt work like that????
not in its current form anyway.

For now. Who knows what will be around in 50, 100, 1000, a million years from now?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/19/2022 at 7:43 PM, Tippaporn said:

Go ahead and physically locate your consciousness.  LOL  We are not our brains and search as you may you will never find your consciousness residing somewhere in your brain.  The brain is the physical counterpart of the mind.  The mind is not physical.  Now work that out.  How to upload something that is nonphysical into a physical apparatus.

There are many, many other reasons why it's not possible.

IMO our brains are just biological computers. They work on a ( genetic ) program. the program should be able to be downloaded/ uploaded to a machine.

Many don't think we have souls.

 

It's only impossible now, but in the future anything is possible.