The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

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7 hours ago, Airalee said:

No.  Overweight and Obese people are.  2.8 million deaths annually.  
 

https://www.who.int/news-room/facts-in-pictures/detail/6-facts-on-obesity
 

Of the 5.5 million global Covid 19 deaths, how many were overweight or obese?

 

Perhaps there should be mandates on peoples weights?  Forced dietary restrictions if over a 24 BMI?

 

"Based on the data presented, unvaccinated individuals appear to be six times more likely to be hospitalised and nearly 13 times more likely to be sent to ICU than those who are fully vaccinated," said the Epoch Times. "This is considering that the number of unvaccinated patients appears to be over-represented in the figures — 7.3 percent of the NSW population aged 12 and over at the time were unvaccinated, but they made up half of the COVID-19 ICU patients in the NSW Health system."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/14/blog-posting/australia-vaccination-status-hospitalized-covid-19/

[cdemundo]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

It's a natural progression of viruses to mutate to less harmful variants. I'm quite hopeful COVID will become no worse than seasonal flu in a couple of years.

I've been vaccinated for flu about 30 years in a row now, haven't had it since my first bout before being vaccinated. Perhaps common sense will eventually prevail with COVID too.

"It's a natural progression of viruses to mutate to less harmful variants."

 

Often repeated, not true.

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/08/facebook-posts/viruses-and-other-pathogens-can-evolve-become-more/

 

Fact check: Yes, viruses can mutate to become more deadly

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/14/fact-check-viruses-can-mutate-become-more-deadly/7839167002/

 

Viruses can evolve to be more deadly

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-011488089270

 

Do Bad Viruses Always Become Good Guys in the End? 

We are often told that viruses always evolve to become benign. In reality, virulence is a double-edged sword.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/do-bad-viruses-always-become-good-guys-end

 

 

[rattlesnake]

9 hours ago, onthedarkside said:

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/1070573184/france-emmanuel-macron-covid-unvaccinated-remarks

 

"Macron also called unvaccinated people "irresponsible" and said such people "are no longer citizens."

 

And

 

https://www.newsweek.com/french-president-emmanuel-macron-says-someone-who-refuses-covid-vaccine-not-citizen-1665669

 

I'm assuming from reading, his comment above was more rhetorical than meant literally.

 

Of course, however coming from a head of state of a so-called democracy it is absolutely unprecedented. Even after the 2015 Paris terror attacks it was said that the terrorists would always be French citizens for human rights reasons. Macron uses the "divide and rule" approach which is a very old and effective political strategy. By encouraging and maintaining divisions within the people, attention is driven away from him. Let's not forget the real reason why hospitals are in tatters and overwhelmed:

 

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20210930-5-758-hospital-beds-closed-in-france-in-2020-amid-health-crisis-covid-19

Edited January 19, 2022 by rattlesnake

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12 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Of course, however coming from a head of state of a so-called democracy it is absolutely unprecedented. Even after the 2015 Paris terror attacks it was said that the terrorists would always be French citizens for human rights reasons. Macron uses the "divide and rule" approach which is a very old and effective political strategy. By encouraging and maintaining divisions within the people, attention is driven away from him. Let's not forget the real reason why hospitals are in tatters and overwhelmed:

 

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20210930-5-758-hospital-beds-closed-in-france-in-2020-amid-health-crisis-covid-19

From the same article:

"The number of intensive care beds rose by 14.5 percent, around 6,200 at the end of 2020."

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, cdemundo said:

"It's a natural progression of viruses to mutate to less harmful variants."

 

Often repeated, not true.

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/08/facebook-posts/viruses-and-other-pathogens-can-evolve-become-more/

 

Fact check: Yes, viruses can mutate to become more deadly

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/14/fact-check-viruses-can-mutate-become-more-deadly/7839167002/

 

Viruses can evolve to be more deadly

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-011488089270

 

Do Bad Viruses Always Become Good Guys in the End? 

We are often told that viruses always evolve to become benign. In reality, virulence is a double-edged sword.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/do-bad-viruses-always-become-good-guys-end

 

 

You may be right. I'm just saying omicron is less deadly than delta, and most of the reports support that.

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, Airalee said:

Your claim of 90% of the people hospitalized being unvaccinated was wrong.

 

Accept it and move on.

The claim was made in respect of the delta wave in NSW. There is similar evidence from Mumbai in India.

I'm not wrong, you are.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:39 PM, cdemundo said:

Apparently some political leaders are looking to exploit bad feelings against the unvaccinated.

Thailand may not be exempt from this trend, we will see.

 

Well and truly in NZ. Any talk of the "team of 5 million" has vanished. Now it's "us against them". I hope the next election will educate them that encouraging fear of and anger against fellow citizens is not a good way to rule.

[thaibeachlovers]

39 minutes ago, placeholder said:

From the same article:

"The number of intensive care beds rose by 14.5 percent, around 6,200 at the end of 2020."

Perhaps they closed ward beds to be able to staff intensive care beds. If there are not enough staff something has to change.

NB I said "perhaps". I'm not in France to know for sure.

[Mr Derek]

How about this anti-vax argument: people who cling on and on and on to life by obsessive dependence on medical intervention are selfish and part of the problem with all that is wrong with the world, which is over-population, over-consumption, over-indulgence.

 

I reason it thusly: The best, most meaningful time of life is when you are young, most fit, most healthy, most idealistic, when everything is a new experience. Meaningfulness tails off over the age of 50 once you have seen and done enough and your powers wane. You are just eking life out for no particular reason than to have a few more beers, repeat stuff you have done before, go places that are less and less worth visiting, using up space and the earth's resources. If you are lucky enough to stay in natural good health and get a long life, congratulations, but you should have no automatic right to perpetuate yourself by unnatural medical means. When your body packs up for whatever reason, the decent thing is to call it a day and resign with your natural integrity and dignity intact. You should take the hint: nature intends you to die; illness is natural population control and by denying it you are making a mess of things. A lot of old people have died due to Covid. That is nature's plan. The population will emerge from this leaner and fitter, as it did after the Black Death, which led to the Renaissance. You see the principle involved?

 

That's my philosophy of life. I never run to a doctor at the first sign of illness. I never take pills if I'm having a bad day. The body has a miraculous ability to heal most things itself and medicine only gets in the way. If something more dangerous gets me, then so be it. If I get cancer I won't be doing chemo. I consider everyone over a certain age who relies on the medical industry to drag out their lives until they are piece of dried fruit to be egotistic, weak and pathetic. Call it the Hemingway principle.

 

It seems the whole of society has become so precious it has become running scared of death. I am generally prudent but am prepared to take reasonable risks. I evaluate those risks intellectually and enact them according to my principles. I don't automatically believe everything I am fed by authorities - they put that stuff out for the masses because the masses are idiotic and need herding like cats. I'm not one of the masses.

 

I'm not getting vaxxed because of this principle. I take reasonable natural precautions, but if this virus takes me down, let it, and if you're soiling your pants because you want to live for eternity, that's your choice. Live hoping, die crapping.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

 

6 hours ago, cdemundo said:

"It's a natural progression of viruses to mutate to less harmful variants."

 

Often repeated, not true.

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/08/facebook-posts/viruses-and-other-pathogens-can-evolve-become-more/

 

Fact check: Yes, viruses can mutate to become more deadly

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/14/fact-check-viruses-can-mutate-become-more-deadly/7839167002/

 

Viruses can evolve to be more deadly

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-011488089270

 

Do Bad Viruses Always Become Good Guys in the End? 

We are often told that viruses always evolve to become benign. In reality, virulence is a double-edged sword.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/do-bad-viruses-always-become-good-guys-end

 

 

It's just as well the really bad ones do become less deadly or humanity would probably have ceased to be during the black death of 1334 to 1353.

BTW that lasted 19 years, so perhaps covid will be with us for a while longer.

Edited January 19, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

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1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

It's just as well the really bad ones do become less deadly or humanity would probably have ceased to be during the black death of 1334 to 1353.

BTW that lasted 19 years, so perhaps covid will be with us for a while longer.

Is there any evidence that the bubonic and pneumonic plagues are any less virulent than they were 700 years ago?

https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/docserver/fulltext/jmm/50/12/mjm5012.1015.pdf?expires=1642559656&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=0316BEB0DD02E26E4FAA7C95768DEC53

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

How about this anti-vax argument: people who cling on and on and on to life by obsessive dependence on medical intervention are selfish and part of the problem with all that is wrong with the world, which is over-population, over-consumption, over-indulgence.

 

I reason it thusly: The best, most meaningful time of life is when you are young, most fit, most healthy, most idealistic, when everything is a new experience. Meaningfulness tails off over the age of 50 once you have seen and done enough and your powers wane. You are just eking life out for no particular reason than to have a few more beers, repeat stuff you have done before, go places that are less and less worth visiting, using up space and the earth's resources. If you are lucky enough to stay in natural good health and get a long life, congratulations, but you should have no automatic right to perpetuate yourself by unnatural medical means. When your body packs up for whatever reason, the decent thing is to call it a day and resign with your natural integrity and dignity intact. You should take the hint: nature intends you to die; illness is natural population control and by denying it you are making a mess of things. A lot of old people have died due to Covid. That is nature's plan. The population will emerge from this leaner and fitter, as it did after the Black Death, which led to the Renaissance. You see the principle involved?

 

That's my philosophy of life. I never run to a doctor at the first sign of illness. I never take pills if I'm having a bad day. The body has a miraculous ability to heal most things itself and medicine only gets in the way. If something more dangerous gets me, then so be it. If I get cancer I won't be doing chemo. I consider everyone over a certain age who relies on the medical industry to drag out their lives until they are piece of dried fruit to be egotistic, weak and pathetic. Call it the Hemingway principle.

 

It seems the whole of society has become so precious it has become running scared of death. I am generally prudent but am prepared to take reasonable risks. I evaluate those risks intellectually and enact them according to my principles. I don't automatically believe everything I am fed by authorities - they put that stuff out for the masses because the masses are idiotic and need herding like cats. I'm not one of the masses.

 

I'm not getting vaxxed because of this principle. I take reasonable natural precautions, but if this virus takes me down, let it, and if you're soiling your pants because you want to live for eternity, that's your choice. Live hoping, die crapping.

 

Let me guess.

 

No health insurance either.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

How about this anti-vax argument: people who cling on and on and on to life by obsessive dependence on medical intervention are selfish and part of the problem with all that is wrong with the world, which is over-population, over-consumption, over-indulgence.

 

I reason it thusly: The best, most meaningful time of life is when you are young, most fit, most healthy, most idealistic, when everything is a new experience. Meaningfulness tails off over the age of 50 once you have seen and done enough and your powers wane. You are just eking life out for no particular reason than to have a few more beers, repeat stuff you have done before, go places that are less and less worth visiting, using up space and the earth's resources. If you are lucky enough to stay in natural good health and get a long life, congratulations, but you should have no automatic right to perpetuate yourself by unnatural medical means. When your body packs up for whatever reason, the decent thing is to call it a day and resign with your natural integrity and dignity intact. You should take the hint: nature intends you to die; illness is natural population control and by denying it you are making a mess of things. A lot of old people have died due to Covid. That is nature's plan. The population will emerge from this leaner and fitter, as it did after the Black Death, which led to the Renaissance. You see the principle involved?

 

That's my philosophy of life. I never run to a doctor at the first sign of illness. I never take pills if I'm having a bad day. The body has a miraculous ability to heal most things itself and medicine only gets in the way. If something more dangerous gets me, then so be it. If I get cancer I won't be doing chemo. I consider everyone over a certain age who relies on the medical industry to drag out their lives until they are piece of dried fruit to be egotistic, weak and pathetic. Call it the Hemingway principle.

 

It seems the whole of society has become so precious it has become running scared of death. I am generally prudent but am prepared to take reasonable risks. I evaluate those risks intellectually and enact them according to my principles. I don't automatically believe everything I am fed by authorities - they put that stuff out for the masses because the masses are idiotic and need herding like cats. I'm not one of the masses.

 

I'm not getting vaxxed because of this principle. I take reasonable natural precautions, but if this virus takes me down, let it, and if you're soiling your pants because you want to live for eternity, that's your choice. Live hoping, die crapping.

 

You are probably right, but the medical industry which makes a great deal of it's money keeping people alive will fight tooth and nail to keep itself in business. Being old is now big business with the "retirement village" rip off industry, the "rest home" industry etc. Old people are no longer persons, IMO, they are commodities to be exploited till the last breath.

[MrJ2U]

On 1/18/2022 at 8:05 AM, cdemundo said:

Maybe, but after a terrible start Thailand now has vaccination statistics comparable with the UK and US. 

55 million of those are Sinovac plus millions more of Sinopharm.

 

US and UK are using mRNA vaccines.

 

While better than nothing there is a large difference in effectiveness even with Pfeizer booster.

 

"Sinovac COVID-19 shot with Pfizer booster less effective against Omicron - study"

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sinovac-covid-19-shot-with-pfizer-booster-less-effective-against-omicron-study-2021-12-31/

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

 

This might help.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3

 

Walensky was referring to a new CDC study of nearly 4,000 front-line workers, some vaccinated and some not, who tested themselves weekly for COVID-19 infections between December and March. 

 

Among fully vaccinated people in the study, there were only three "break-through" COVID-19 infections detected. In stark contrast, unvaccinated participants in the study logged 161 COVID-19 cases.

 

In other words, two shots of Pfizer or Moderna's vaccines, followed by two full weeks for them to take effect, nearly zeroed out all detectable infections — including asymptomatic ones.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Is there any evidence that the bubonic and pneumonic plagues are any less virulent than they were 700 years ago?

https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/docserver/fulltext/jmm/50/12/mjm5012.1015.pdf?expires=1642559656&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=0316BEB0DD02E26E4FAA7C95768DEC53

Nit picking?

 

How many died of Bubonic plague since 1353? Remember that they didn't have the benefit of modern medicine to keep people alive.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Nit picking?

 

How many died of Bubonic plague since 1353? Remember that they didn't have the benefit of modern medicine to keep people alive.

And yet so many eschew the benefits of modern medicine.

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are probably right, but the medical industry which makes a great deal of it's money keeping people alive will fight tooth and nail to keep itself in business. Being old is now big business with the "retirement village" rip off industry, the "rest home" industry etc. Old people are no longer persons, IMO, they are commodities to be exploited till the last breath.

That's not what the people I've met think who work in these retirement villages.  They intensely care for the people there.  Sad some would even think like this.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And yet so many eschew the benefits of modern medicine.

Rubbish. IMO not a single one that reads these pages would refuse to be treated in hospital in the event of an accident requiring surgery.

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nit picking?

 

How many died of Bubonic plague since 1353? Remember that they didn't have the benefit of modern medicine to keep people alive.

Do you understand that your evidence actually undercuts what you are saying? The pathogen hasn't changed, but our tools for dealing with it have. So, evolution has not pushed the yersina pestis into being less virulent.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rubbish. IMO not a single one that reads these pages would refuse to be treated in hospital in the event of an accident requiring surgery.

 

My friend just had an emergency.  Needed to be admitted to a hospital immediately.  Guess what?  Many were full with covid patients.  Thus, the reason many of us have lost patience with the anti vaxxers...or those who support their beliefs.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

That's not what the people I've met think who work in these retirement villages.  They intensely care for the people there.  Sad some would even think like this.

They are a rip off because they charge a lot to buy the villa in the first place, charge large fees to live there, and deny the family to make a profit when the villa is sold.

They are IMO a money making enterprise, not some charity that actually cares about the residents. If a resident refused to pay the annual fees how long do you think it would take to evict them?

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They are a rip off because they charge a lot to buy the villa in the first place, charge large fees to live there, and deny the family to make a profit when the villa is sold.

They are IMO a money making enterprise, not some charity that actually cares about the residents. If a resident refused to pay the annual fees how long do you think it would take to evict them?

I've spent years dealing with this.  You're 100% wrong.  Do they want to make money?  What business doesn't? 

 

They sincerely care about their residents.  At least the ones I've dealt with here over the past 10 years.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rubbish. IMO not a single one that reads these pages would refuse to be treated in hospital in the event of an accident requiring surgery.

 

Are not the COVID vaccines modern medicine?

 

Have you missed the reports of people refusing to accept them?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

My friend just had an emergency.  Needed to be admitted to a hospital immediately.  Guess what?  Many were full with covid patients.  Thus, the reason many of us have lost patience with the anti vaxxers...or those who support their beliefs.

Blame the government for making a mess of it then. They have had 18 months to increase hospital capacity, but done not enough if anything at all.

You have, IMO, been co opted by the divide and rule of incompetent politicians, that seek to deflect blame away from themselves for cocking it up to those that choose to exercise their RIGHTS to refuse the vaccine for whatever reason.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I've spent years dealing with this.  You're 100% wrong.  Do they want to make money?  What business doesn't? 

 

They sincerely care about their residents.  At least the ones I've dealt with here over the past 10 years.

You didn't answer the question.

 

They certainly care about the residents money.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Blame the government for making a mess of it then. They have had 18 months to increase hospital capacity, but done not enough if anything at all.

You have, IMO, been co opted by the divide and rule of incompetent politicians, that seek to deflect blame away from themselves for cocking it up to those that choose to exercise their RIGHTS to refuse the vaccine for whatever reason.

It's not hospital capacity, it's vaccine availability.  More jabs, less in the hospital.  Less variants.  The quicker we get this mess over.

 

Sad some refuse the vaccine.  Selfish and not very smart.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You didn't answer the question.

 

They certainly care about the residents money.

Ummm...that's how they stay in business.  Pay the staff, bring in the docs several times a week, pay for the food, etc. 

 

You don't seem to understand business very well.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Are not the COVID vaccines modern medicine?

 

Have you missed the reports of people refusing to accept them?

I have read of people exercising their RIGHTS to refuse a medicine they don't trust.

[Mr Derek]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let me guess.

 

No health insurance either.

Wrong. I have insurance mainly because the roads are dangerous here and I'm not going to go bankrupt because of some idiot. As I said, I'm prudent. If my leg got broken, I'd have it fixed. The principle I am talking about relates to natural illness and the avoidance of becoming psychologically dependent on the ever-more bloated techniques of modern medicine. That's a matter of being strong-minded but is beyond most people, apparently.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Mr Derek