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Have you ever been shamed? Shamed by friends, family, society etc?


Don Chance
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The mother of my son (thai lady) tried on my family as well her own, eventually she got caught up on her acts as it never made sense. Due to that she lost face to herself and family in the village too, permanently.

 

I provided full evidence and a proper written Thai letter and send it to everyone.

Edited by ChaiyaTH
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Yes. When I was 9 years old I was in a 6 aside football team.

 

We were in a tournament with 11 other teams from surrounding schools.

 

Against the odds, we made the final. During this game, although had played well otherwise, I missed an absolute sitter and finished as runners up.

 

My name was mud for a month afterwards.

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Shame has not been normalised but guilt is being eradicated. Both help aid communities and society by moderating behaviour.  That's why the term shameless is a powerful insult. Only nihlists, sociopaths and psychopaths live in a shame  free  guilt free world.

Edited by The Hammer2021
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31 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Yes, I remember shame well. Never forgot it. It was the 'Walk of shame' past the hotel reception staff late night. I felt so ashamed! Many years ago, I had been out in the bars all night in Pattaya and for some inexplicable reason, I had ended up walking back to the hotel alone! Oh, the shame of it!! 😳😳😳

I know the feeling only too well... And drop my head in shame every time I don't score... 

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Thankfully neither my friends nor family members are that retarded. Normal family + friends, normal upbringing, normal shame. 

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Had the great honour of being trained by and working with John at The Meadows, in Wikenburg, Arizona some years ago. A luminary, a brilliant, endlessly kind, loving, flawed, imperfectly perfect man. His work, saved and changed my life.

Going by some of the responses so far to the OP's posting we can see that for some shame has a normal and moderate function in their lives, for others it appears they like most of the planet are unaware of toxic shame in the world. Such is one of the fundamental premises of shame itself i.e. it teaches and corrals us to deny its existence, and god forbid and help anyone who speaks openly of it!

The notion of healthy shame is very different from toxic-shame.

Before posters react from their shame and projection the following reference is not form a place of bashing the person i refer to but merely as a crystal clear example of what John shares about in this video. By the way this series is available on DVD. I would highly recommend any mental health professional to purchase them and digest. If you have family or friends who are in this profession you might consider buying them as a present.

A recent textbook example of the product of a relentless shaming family system headed by a cruel patriarchal father is Donald Trump. Aided and abetted by his mother.

Trumps brother adapted to the family toxic shame in another way, he drank himself to death as a means of trying to cope with its crushing weight. His daughter Mary, Trumps niece has broken many of the chains of that familial shame-bound system.

Edited by Tropposurfer
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Have you ever been shamed? Shamed by friends, family, society etc?

No - shaming is a part of certain cultures and sub-cultures (even rather newly developed sub-cultures) that I personally was not raised in.  "Shaming" is performed by people who believe they hold the moral high-ground which is in fact highly subjective.
So to be 'shamed' I'd have to acquiesce to someone else's illusion of moral superiority. 

Now Thais?  They play the shame-game because they know they can literally get away with murder with a wai and an apology.  I was raised to take responsibility for my actions.  That doesn't mean publicly sniveling.

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12 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Only nihlists, sociopaths and psychopaths live in a shame  free  guilt free world.

I disagree with that.  Guilt (and shame) is in fact a form of psychopathy which sociopaths and psychopath use to control and manipulate their prey and victims.  There in nothing more malleable then a person wallowing in guilt and shame.  They can be made to do all sorts of thing right up to murder and genocide in the name of the moral narrative that they have been fed and have accepted into their lives.

Nihilists could give a rip.

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12 hours ago, djayz said:

I know the feeling only too well... And drop my head in shame every time I don't score... 

In my world you wouldn't feel shame at failing to score. 

You would feel motivated to analyze what you had done incorrectly, what you could have done to make your performance better, make a game plan to improve, and then take the steps necessary to implement your improved playing strategy.  Even the best of the best never 'win' 100% of the time.  But the best of the best do learn from their mistakes and improve their game which makes them the best of the best!

Shame will never make you a better player.  Shame is an anchor which will drag you into the depths of despair. 

Winners don't drown in despair - they improve their game.

Edited by connda
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1 minute ago, connda said:

I disagree with that.  Guilt (and shame) is in fact a form of psychopathy which sociopaths and psychopath use to control and manipulate their prey and victims.  There in nothing more malleable then a person wallowing in guilt and shame.  They can be made to do all sorts of thing right up to murder and genocide in the name of the moral narrative that they have been fed and have accepted into their lives.

Nihilists could give a rip.

What you say has some truth but only in extreme  circumstances. Any emotion can be manipulated even joy. Nevertheless  Guilt functions as a form of control in individuals and shame is the actualisation by the community of guilt. The key indicators in violent criminals, rapists, paedophiles, narcissists, fraudsters, liars, psychopaths etc is no feelings of shame or guilt to hold them back or stop them repeating offending. The real issue is not feeling guilt or shame but WHAT you feel guilt or shame about.

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This women felt no guilt or shame when she tortured her girlfriend's baby. She felt no guilt or shame when she killed the baby.

She showed no guilt or shame at her trial

She is now in prison  and shows no guilt or shame.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10428751/No-words-remorse-Star-Hobsons-sadistic-murderer-vows-Im-going-appeal.html

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1 minute ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The key indicators in violent criminals, rapists, paedophiles, narcissists, fraudsters, liars, psychopaths etc is no feelings of shame or guilt to hold them back or stop them repeating offending. The real issue is not feeling guilt or shame but WHAT you feel guilt or shame about.

You forgot "politicians", "predatory bankers" and "predatory corporate executives."  😉

I hear what you're saying. :thumbsup:  When I apply it to myself though?
Well, I'm not a psychopath or sociopath as I'm on the side of the common man always rooting them on with compassion and hopes for them to succeed and live happy fulfilling meaningful lives.

Guess I must be a nihilist?  That's probably true in a way, but not for the same reasons as professed by Western Nihilistic philosophy.  What would look like Nihilism on the surface on my part is actually a world-view honed by Eastern philosophy and universal morality.

Western Nihilism = Life has no meaning
Eastern Nihilism = There is no real self

It's a bit different.  Easy to explain at the 100,000 foot level, difficult to comprehend.

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36 minutes ago, connda said:

Have you ever been shamed? Shamed by friends, family, society etc?

No - shaming is a part of certain cultures and sub-cultures (even rather newly developed sub-cultures) that I personally was not raised in.  "Shaming" is performed by people who believe they hold the moral high-ground which is in fact highly subjective.
So to be 'shamed' I'd have to acquiesce to someone else's illusion of moral superiority. 

Now Thais?  They play the shame-game because they know they can literally get away with murder with a wai and an apology.  I was raised to take responsibility for my actions.  That doesn't mean publicly sniveling.

Poor Thais can not get away with murder as you describe only rich Thais and if it was so easy why hasn't the Red Bull suspect returned home to "literally get off with murder with a wai"..Anyway Poor Thais are  more likely  to be victims of murder rather  than 'get away  with murder' which also reflects what happens in Australia  or America. Your reference to public acts of contrition as 'snivelling' suggests you haven't really thought this through but will seek to use the subject as an excuse for general Thai bashing..

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8 minutes ago, connda said:

You forgot "politicians", "predatory bankers" and "predatory corporate executives."  😉

I hear what you're saying. :thumbsup:  When I apply it to myself though?
Well, I'm not a psychopath or sociopath as I'm on the side of the common man always rooting them on with compassion and hopes for them to succeed and live happy fulfilling meaningful lives.

Guess I must be a nihilist?  That's probably true in a way, but not for the same reasons as professed by Western Nihilistic philosophy.  What would look like Nihilism on the surface on my part is actually a world-view honed by Eastern philosophy and universal morality.

Western Nihilism = Life has no meaning
Eastern Nihilism = There is no real self

It's a bit different.  Easy to explain at the 100,000 foot level, difficult to comprehend.

It's easy and simple  to comprehend: The perpetrators of genocide and the people who staff the torture chambers and run the death camps don't know shame or guilt.  Yes the are indicators of psychopathy in some successful  business men. Nevertheless shame and guilt play a very important  role regulating individual's behaviour  for the benefit of our communities and society at large

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13 minutes ago, yuznmeez said:

The purpose of shame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE5HiXHo0Ao

very short video.

Dr. John Bradshaw at “Meadows”  in Wickenburg, Arizona, USA

You explain  it to us in your own words please. Anybody  can use links as a substitute  for wisdom, life experience, intelligence and thoughtful philosophical  comprehension.

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6 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Had the great honour of being trained by and working with John at The Meadows, in Wikenburg, Arizona some years ago. A luminary, a brilliant, endlessly kind, loving, flawed, imperfectly perfect man. His work, saved and changed my life.

Going by some of the responses so far to the OP's posting we can see that for some shame has a normal and moderate function in their lives, for others it appears they like most of the planet are unaware of toxic shame in the world. Such is one of the fundamental premises of shame itself i.e. it teaches and corrals us to deny its existence, and god forbid and help anyone who speaks openly of it!

The notion of healthy shame is very different from toxic-shame.

Before posters react from their shame and projection the following reference is not form a place of bashing the person i refer to but merely as a crystal clear example of what John shares about in this video. By the way this series is available on DVD. I would highly recommend any mental health professional to purchase them and digest. If you have family or friends who are in this profession you might consider buying them as a present.

A recent textbook example of the product of a relentless shaming family system headed by a cruel patriarchal father is Donald Trump. Aided and abetted by his mother.

Trumps brother adapted to the family toxic shame in another way, he drank himself to death as a means of trying to cope with its crushing weight. His daughter Mary, Trumps niece has broken many of the chains of that familial shame-bound system.

It's quite clear that many of the posters in this thread have not watched the video or else missed the point. Or they wouldn't have posted what they did.

It's not about feeling bad about something you did.

It's about toxic, or 'core' shame. Most who have it don't know it. It's crippling.

I'm glad someone put this guy past me some 30 years ago. It helped me enormously on my journey.

Nice to be reminded ... though AseanToday is the last place I'd have expected to find this ;D

Edited by BusyB
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9 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Had the great honour of being trained by and working with John at The Meadows, in Wikenburg, Arizona some years ago. A luminary, a brilliant, endlessly kind, loving, flawed, imperfectly perfect man. His work, saved and changed my life.

Going by some of the responses so far to the OP's posting we can see that for some shame has a normal and moderate function in their lives, for others it appears they like most of the planet are unaware of toxic shame in the world. Such is one of the fundamental premises of shame itself i.e. it teaches and corrals us to deny its existence, and god forbid and help anyone who speaks openly of it!

The notion of healthy shame is very different from toxic-shame.

Before posters react from their shame and projection the following reference is not form a place of bashing the person i refer to but merely as a crystal clear example of what John shares about in this video. By the way this series is available on DVD. I would highly recommend any mental health professional to purchase them and digest. If you have family or friends who are in this profession you might consider buying them as a present.

A recent textbook example of the product of a relentless shaming family system headed by a cruel patriarchal father is Donald Trump. Aided and abetted by his mother.

Trumps brother adapted to the family toxic shame in another way, he drank himself to death as a means of trying to cope with its crushing weight. His daughter Mary, Trumps niece has broken many of the chains of that familial shame-bound system.

Oh yes, John at The Meadows in Arizona!   Who is he and what does he do please?

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