Question on online transfer from HSBC account in Hong Kong to Bangkok Bank in Thailand

[david_je]

My HSBC account is in HK dollars and Bangkok Bank in baht, and I will be using in baht the money that I transfer. I'm sure this is a dumb question, but in doing the online transfer, the HSBC system asks for "transfer currency" -- do I select HK dollars or baht? Seems like it should be sent as HK dollars and Bangkok Bank would convert into baht upon receipt? If I select baht, HSBC would do the conversion before sending? Difference cost-wise?

HSBC customer service in HK very had to reach by phone. 

[OJAS]

Don't know about the specific HK position, but, generally speaking, the perceived wisdom on here is that it is better, from the charges angle, to have the originating foreign bank make the transfer in "their" currency, with the conversion to THB being performed at the Thai end.

 

But, depending on the size of your transfer, might the optimum solution from the charges angle be to perform this transfer through Wise?

 

https://wise.com/gb/currency-converter/hkd-to-thb-rate

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by OJAS

[CRUNCHER]

Use this regularly (HSBC HK to BKK Bank). Transfer currency is HKD. Under instruction to receiving bank ask them (BKK Bank) to change to Thai baht and they will do it. Normally takes less than 24 hours.

For larger amounts BKK Bank will usually call you to confirm converting to Thai Baht and if you are really lucky they will give you a slightly better exchange rate.

[hotandsticky]

Any reason why you are not using WISE (formerly Transferwise)?

[david_je]

34 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

Use this regularly (HSBC HK to BKK Bank). Transfer currency is HKD. Under instruction to receiving bank ask them (BKK Bank) to change to Thai baht and they will do it. Normally takes less than 24 hours.

For larger amounts BKK Bank will usually call you to confirm converting to Thai Baht and if you are really lucky they will give you a slightly better exchange rate.

Thank you, exactly what I need to know.

[david_je]

34 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Any reason why you are not using WISE (formerly Transferwise)?

I am exactly sure how WISE works, but I hesitate to add yet another account/contact for my financial info, with accompanying additional security and hassle worries and monitoring/maintenance. I don't know if I am justified to worry about this?

[hotandsticky]

51 minutes ago, david_je said:

I am exactly sure how WISE works, but I hesitate to add yet another account/contact for my financial info, with accompanying additional security and hassle worries and monitoring/maintenance. I don't know if I am justified to worry about this?

IMO, no.

 

I have used TW for over 2 years. No issues.

 

As a retired HSBC employee I do not pay charges on transfers  - Wise still works out significantly cheaper, and usually takes seconds to transfer.

[Stocky]

3 hours ago, david_je said:

I am exactly sure how WISE works, but I hesitate to add yet another account/contact for my financial info, with accompanying additional security and hassle worries and monitoring/maintenance. I don't know if I am justified to worry about this?

I use Wise to transfer from HSBC Singapore to Thailand, I was tired of 'intermediary banks' coming back for a slice sometimes weeks after the event.

[Stocky]

@Liverpool Lou
Why confused. Transfers from Singapore HSBC, where I've indicated all costs borne from my Singapore account, I've been hit with an additional charge for the transfer of a further SGD20. This sometimes appearing as much as a month after the original transfer. On querying with HSBC I get the response that this was a charge by an intermediary bank. When I requested more details HSBC said that would be a further SGD20 for them to investigate. Since Wise arrived I no longer use HSBC to make any international transfers.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, Stocky said:

I use Wise to transfer from HSBC Singapore to Thailand, I was tired of 'intermediary banks' coming back for a slice sometimes weeks after the event.

You're saying that "weeks after" a transfer has been successfully credited to your Thai bank account the correspondent bank tries to take a fee from your account?   How could it ever do that?

[Stocky]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You're saying that "weeks after" a transfer has been successfully credited to your Thai bank account the correspondent bank tries to take a fee from your account?   How could it ever do that?

They did. Worst case was paying a bills to companies in Australia, obviously the exact amount of the invoice needed to be sent so all fees were at my cost. I got hit for an additional bank charges by HSBC for an 'intermediary bank' about six months after I made the payment. There's no 'trying' about it, charge just appeared on my statement.

 

This was about 6 years ago, culprits were named, one as Commonwealth Bank, the other ANZ.

 

.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Stocky
I just checked my records and the charges came in 6 months after the event!

[mvdf]

16 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

IMO, no.

 

I have used TW for over 2 years. No issues.

 

As a retired HSBC employee I do not pay charges on transfers  - Wise still works out significantly cheaper, and usually takes seconds to transfer.

Why are you stubbornly insisting (no, lecturing him even) that he use Wise. It's totally his choice to decide how he manages his financial affairs. He is not mandatorily required to join the Wise cult.

 

OP, transfer HKD to your THB account. Instruct HSBC to execute the SWIFT MT103 transfer in HKD. Beneficiary bank will convert transferred funds to THB at Bank of Thailand rate minus fees or forex commission.

 

When you make an international wire transfer (MT103 SWIFT) you can nominate fee instructions as follows:

 

BEN, SHA, OUR are codes in a SWIFT instruction, at field 71A "Details of Charges".

 

The OUR instruction means you pay all transfer charges upfront. 

 

SHA (shared) means you only pay your bank's outgoing transfer charge. The Thai bank receives your payment minus the correspondent (intermediary) bank charges.

 

BEN (beneficiary) means you do not pay any charge. The Thai bank receives your payment, converts the HKD amount to THB and credits the converted amount minus all transfer charges.

 

I recommend OUR.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by mvdf

[Speedhump]

Transferring USD from HSBC in another country to my Thai bank I now always leave the currency as USD and let the Thai bank convert into Baht. It's always worked out a better rate than the HSBC online app offers me 

[Expat68]

19 hours ago, david_je said:

I am exactly sure how WISE works, but I hesitate to add yet another account/contact for my financial info, with accompanying additional security and hassle worries and monitoring/maintenance. I don't know if I am justified to worry about this?

It is very easy, register, enter the amount you want to send, they calculate, then just transfer to wise instead of Bangkok Bank, pretty sure you will get a better rate

[ray richards]

I transfer from UK hsbc to Thailand Bangkok bank ,I send Gbp & Bangkok bank do the conversion to bahts. UK charge £4 for any amount but Bangkok bank charge me 1.25% commission, I've had numerous arguments with Bangkok bank about the commission but they still stick to it.

I would imagine it's a same set up from HK HSBC.

[david_je]

3 hours ago, mvdf said:

Why are you stubbornly insisting (no, lecturing him even) that he use Wise. It's totally his choice to decide how he manages his financial affairs. He is not mandatorily required to join the Wise cult.

 

OP, transfer HKD to your THB account. Instruct HSBC to execute the SWIFT MT103 transfer in HKD. Beneficiary bank will convert transferred funds to THB at Bank of Thailand rate minus fees or forex commission.

 

When you make an international wire transfer (MT103 SWIFT) you can nominate fee instructions as follows:

 

 

I had no idea I could specify those fee instructions. I would state this in the instructions box when I do the transfer? I say, "Pls execute the SWIFT MT103 - OUR transfer in HKD"? This saves me the forex commission? Would you be able to point me to an HSBC or other bank document where they detail this?

[david_je]

20 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

IMO, no.

 

I have used TW for over 2 years. No issues.

 

As a retired HSBC employee I do not pay charges on transfers  - Wise still works out significantly cheaper, and usually takes seconds to transfer.

Thanks for that. At least HSBC does seem to have lowered its int'l transfer fee -- it's now HK$50, down from HK$110 if I recall correctly, last time I transferred a couple years ago.

[OJAS]

51 minutes ago, david_je said:

Thanks for that. At least HSBC does seem to have lowered its int'l transfer fee -- it's now HK$50, down from HK$110 if I recall correctly, last time I transferred a couple years ago.

You may well know what HSBC's and BKKB's charges may be, but the biggest unknown as alluded to by @Stocky is how much HSBC's agent bank in Thailand will charge you. This is certainly an issue which has in my case also cropped up in the past with SWIFT transfers from my UK bank to BKKB accounts. Makes me seriously wonder whether agent banks the world over (and not just in Thailand, I should hasten to point out - as exemplified by @Stocky) have adopted some flexible formula for calculating their slice of the charges cake, of which route numbers of passing busses are an integral component!????

Edited January 29, 2022 by OJAS

[mvdf]

1 hour ago, david_je said:

I had no idea I could specify those fee instructions. I would state this in the instructions box when I do the transfer? I say, "Pls execute the SWIFT MT103 - OUR transfer in HKD"? This saves me the forex commission? Would you be able to point me to an HSBC or other bank document where they detail this?

https://cdn.hsbc.com.hk/content/dam/hsbc/hk/docs/transfer-payments/smartform-completion-guide.pdf

 

See that yellow box within the form? Select "OUR".

[LoudHailer]

Remittances into Thailand must be in a foreign currency. No Thai bank needs to be told to convert it to Thai Baht; it's automatic unless you have established accounts in other currencies, which in your case, I assume you do not. I have been remitting foreign currencies to Thailand for 20 years. No problems.

[natway09]

BKB has a TT rate published which you can access before you do your transaction.

Then check what they will give you

Normally sending in the currency of sending country to Thailand as many overseas banks banks are robbers when it comes to converting to Thai Baht & BKB pretty good.

Your bank mentioned have never been slow in manipulating this kind of transaction.

I USED to bank with them

[david_je]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:29 AM, mvdf said:

https://cdn.hsbc.com.hk/content/dam/hsbc/hk/docs/transfer-payments/smartform-completion-guide.pdf

 

See that yellow box within the form? Select "OUR".

Thanks for that, but I am not sure how I'd use it? The online transfer page (from my HSBC HK account to my Bangkok Bank account, which I pre-registered as one of my payees, only has the boxes as in screenshot below. 

[david_je]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:15 PM, LoudHailer said:

Remittances into Thailand must be in a foreign currency. No Thai bank needs to be told to convert it to Thai Baht; it's automatic unless you have established accounts in other currencies, which in your case, I assume you do not. I have been remitting foreign currencies to Thailand for 20 years. No problems.

Thanks for that. The online transfer page asked me to choose currency for transfer, and I wondered if I should choose HKD or THB. I asked HSBC customer service in chat and she could not give me clear answer; she even said that if I wanted the transfer in Thai baht, I should ask my Thai bank (?), which doubled my confusion.

[mvdf]

1 hour ago, david_je said:

Thanks for that, but I am not sure how I'd use it? The online transfer page (from my HSBC HK account to my Bangkok Bank account, which I pre-registered as one of my payees, only has the boxes as in screenshot below. 

Overseas charges paid by:  you (sender)

Local charges (if applicable) charged to you (sender)

 

If you follow the above, fees would be charged as OUR (not BEN or SHA). This means HSBC will charge the entire fees upfront which would be the better option as you would know how much fees you will incur for the TT as opposed to BEN ("recipient" pays which is the one shown on your screen shot above). If you select "recipient" your Thai bank will charge their fees separately. (how much is anyone's guess).

 

 

[david_je]

28 minutes ago, mvdf said:

Overseas charges paid by:  you (sender)

Local charges (if applicable) charged to you (sender)

 

If you follow the above, fees would be charged as OUR (not BEN or SHA). This means HSBC will charge the entire fees upfront which would be the better option as you would know how much fees you will incur for the TT as opposed to BEN ("recipient" pays which is the one shown on your screen shot above). If you select "recipient" your Thai bank will charge their fees separately. (how much is anyone's guess).

 

 

Thanks for that. I had thought that if I selected recipient (also me) for those charges, the amount of the fees would be the same except that it would be deducted from my Bangkok Bank account rather than my HSBC. If I understand you correctly, that is not the case. Should I say anything in the "message to payee's bank" box?

[mvdf]

1 hour ago, david_je said:

Thanks for that. I had thought that if I selected recipient (also me) for those charges, the amount of the fees would be the same except that it would be deducted from my Bangkok Bank account rather than my HSBC. If I understand you correctly, that is not the case. Should I say anything in the "message to payee's bank" box?

You can try to use BEN (recipient pays) to see what your Thai bank charges you. I always pay all fees upfront. 

 

As for the "message to payee's bank" box, you can try "money from การฟอกเงิน" ???? (just joking ha ha... don't)

 

 

[david_je]

13 hours ago, mvdf said:

You can try to use BEN (recipient pays) to see what your Thai bank charges you. I always pay all fees upfront. 

 

 

They don't show all charges before you make the transfer, only afterwards, so you can't compare before executing. You only know for sure it will be at least HSBC transfer fee of HK$50 and Bangkok Bank receipt fee of 200-500b depending on amount transferred. Thanks.

[ray richards]

I always send from my HSBC in uk to Bangkok bank Thailand.

It couldn't be easier, just a £4 charge to send + whatever the rate they give you, usually example 44.70 todays rate , you will receive 44.20, through the Swift system, it will take 3 working days.

[lungbing]

I transferred my pensions yesterday from HSBC UK to Kasikorn.  First the HSBC fee has increased to a fiver.  Second they were quoting a rate of just of 42 baht to the GBP if I sent baht whereas  when I sent GBP it was received by Kasikorn and I got just over 44 baht to the pound  Always send GBP.  The money arrived today, ie an overnight transfer.

[SooKee]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:35 PM, Stocky said:

I use Wise to transfer from HSBC Singapore to Thailand, I was tired of 'intermediary banks' coming back for a slice sometimes weeks after the event.

This is what stopped me using HSBC to transfer from the UK to Thailand with their supposedly flat £4 transfer for Premier customers. For a couple of years it was then several years ago something changed (and I've seen numerous accounts of what the reason might be) and very hefty intermediary charges started appearing too at the time of the transaction.  A year or so ago I tried another transfer and was surprised to see no intermediary charge, thinking things had gone back to normal, I did another test.  Luckily I didn't do a full transfer, just a couple of small test amounts to two different accounts, this time they both got hit with intermediary charges 2+ weeks later!  Took me ages to actually find out what these mysterious charges were too as there was zero information provided in online banking, literally zero, just a debit of funds (nothing like 'international transfer fee', no reference number, absolutely nothing).  Complained to HSBC, as much about the total lack of information as anything, and after much to and fro they finally admitted the information they provided was inadequate.  I'm not sure if it's still the same now, if I was in a position too I would have closed the accounts with them, as it is, I use them as little as possible.  I was told the same as @Stocky too, if I wanted precise information I would have to pay an investigation fee.

 

The oddest thing is, not everyone seems to be affected and can still get the flat rate fees.  To this day I have been unable to find out what the reason is (the bank that they send to? some other combination).  I've even tried deleting payee accounts and setting them up again but getting hit with intermediary fees makes it expensive to play around with different combinations).  

Edited February 3, 2022 by SooKee