Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, DavisH said:

For the most part, the current vaccines do not stop infection with omicron. This idea about protecting them has largely gone out the window now. Grandma and grandpa should have already been vaccinated anyway. If they cannot vaccinate, they need to isolate. Everyone is going to be exposed to omicron, it's just a matter of time. I have a coup,e of sister-in-laws who don't want to vaccinate. It's their choice. But their time will come. 

The vaccines do not 100% stop infection.  But do so with a very high percentage. Thus, preventing transmission.  Which is the key.  It's not just about Grandma and grandpa, it's about everyone you come into contact with.

 

Very few can not vaccinate.  Very few.  And if vaccinated, the odds of getting sick, or having long covid, are dramatically reduced.  Dramatically.  Sad some chose not to get this life saving vaccine.  And help end this pandemic.

[Jeffr2]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

'The medical professionals advising vaccination disagree with you.' : Well they would wouldn't they. !? 

 

Actually, I've just finished speaking to a doctor who said he did not agree with covid vaccines for under 10's.  Some- not many- didn't even want the vaccine for themselves. I was surprised by that I must admit.  on the other hand, I know of another who has had 5 already.

 

 

If a doc says he doesn't want the vaccine even for himself, run, don't walk away.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's been proven natural immunity shouldn't be counted on.  Especially with Omicron.

 

Again, visit your doctor and get advice there.  Not from social media or others opinions.  Please.

 

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/bangkok-to-begin-pfizer-vaccines-for-children-5-11-next-month

But you are in effect giving advice Jeff, albeit in a circuitous way.  If you've got something to say just say it maybe.

[Jeffr2]

31 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But you are in effect giving advice Jeff, albeit in a circuitous way.  If you've got something to say just say it maybe.

My advice is for the OP to speak with a credible doctor.  Not take advice from social media or friends.  With that being said, there's lots of great articles out there from credible sites that lay out info for vaccinating your child.  Sadly, there's lots of dodgy articles out there from dodgy websites also.

[mommysboy]

it is certainly important to listen to authoritative sources:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59978516

 

eg, 

Prof Russell Viner, who is an expert in child health at University College London, said Covid was behaving like normal winter viruses in children: "Clinically, this picture is incredibly reassuring. Half were in for observation only. The average length of stay was low...around two days."

Even babies with other serious medical complications do not appear to be getting very ill with the virus.

 

[Jeffr2]

47 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

it is certainly important to listen to authoritative sources:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59978516

 

eg, 

Prof Russell Viner, who is an expert in child health at University College London, said Covid was behaving like normal winter viruses in children: "Clinically, this picture is incredibly reassuring. Half were in for observation only. The average length of stay was low...around two days."

Even babies with other serious medical complications do not appear to be getting very ill with the virus.

 

That's part of the picture.  The other is doing vaccines to prevent transmission.  And thus protect the lives of others and help end this pandemic.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

That's part of the picture.  The other is doing vaccines to prevent transmission.  And thus protect the lives of others and help end this pandemic.

In all honesty any decision I make regarding my child is going to be based on the risks/benefits as it applies to her, and not as it applies to some misguided soul who should but has decided not to get vaccinated.  Their choice, their risk.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In all honesty any decision I make regarding my child is going to be based on the risks/benefits as it applies to her, and not as it applies to some misguided soul who should but has decided not to get vaccinated.  Their choice, their risk.

Absolutely right.

 

But we all make decisions based on the information we receive.

 

Sadly there are far too many pedaling dangerous misinformation and too sowing distrust in the medical professionals who provide reliable information.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

In all honesty any decision I make regarding my child is going to be based on the risks/benefits as it applies to her, and not as it applies to some misguided soul who should but has decided not to get vaccinated.  Their choice, their risk.

Understood, but you're missing the point.  The vaccines have been proven to be safe.  And it's more about ending this pandemic, than protecting the lives of the unvaccinated.  With that being said, many vaxxed are getting the virus also.  And the unvaxxed are the biggest spreaders.  Children or adults.

[Virt]

21 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

That's part of the picture.  The other is doing vaccines to prevent transmission.  And thus protect the lives of others and help end this pandemic.

True, but you also have to look at which stage are your country at.

 

Here in Denmark they estimate that more than 50% of the population had covid during the last two years (2 mill officially had been tested positive in a 5.8 mill pop.), and since more than 80% are vaxed we should start seeing drastically decreasing numbers very soon.

 

At that stage there might not be the same need to vaccinate the youngest children.

Especially not after omicron surfaced.

 

Of course countries are at different stages, so the need to vaccinate children could differ a lot from country to country.

 

I'm a huge fan of vaccines as you know, but for now i don't think the risk/benefit is good enough, at the current stage in Denmark.

 

We're back to normal and lifted all restrictions, so that's also a good indicator that we can stop vaccinating the youngest kids from 5-11.

 

Here is the official recommendation in Denmark when they started recommending vaccines in Nov 2021.

 

 

https://www.sst.dk/en/English/News/2021/Vaccination-of-5-11-year-old-children-is-to-help-stop-infection

 

"Children rarely become severely ill with COVID-19, but they risk infecting their parents and grandparents, who may become ill. Although protection of the children is not the primary objective,vaccination of 5-11-year-olds can provide greater safety and security for the individual child and family because it reduces the risk of infecting vulnerable family members"

 

 

We're at a different stage now since omicron BA.2 are 99% of the current cases, so Delta is practically eradicated.

That combined with a large % of the 5-11 year old already vaccinated and a huge part of all kids already got covid since nov, changes the gameplay.

 

 

[mommysboy]

22 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Understood, but you're missing the point.  The vaccines have been proven to be safe.  And it's more about ending this pandemic, than protecting the lives of the unvaccinated.  With that being said, many vaxxed are getting the virus also.  And the unvaxxed are the biggest spreaders.  Children or adults.

I think the primary point of concern is on the individual receiving the vaccine.  Yes they are safe in the ordinary sense of the word.  Nevertheless it is hand wringingly frustrating and tragic that even the best ones are implicated in harsh side effects, adverse reactions.... and even death in one or two people per million.  Thus, when it comes to very low risk groups, such as 5-11 year olds, we have to be aware of the downsides, albeit they are very, very small.  

 

None of this applies to adults, particularly older ones, where the benefits overwhelmingly outweigh risks.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by mommysboy

[Backthatvaxup]

On 2/6/2022 at 9:24 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

There is no conflict between what the CDC statement says and the approval of the COVID vaccines.

 

That testing ‘can’ take several years is not testing takes several years.

 

 

The extract quoted by the OP is from a CDC page providing general vaccination information, specific COVID vaccination information is provided here:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/children-teens.html

 

 

Nevertheless, good luck with your choice.

 

 

Why don’t you start listing off the examples of worldwide used vaccines that took less than years then? Oh, yeah, bc there aren’t any

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

Why don’t you start listing off the examples of worldwide used vaccines that took less than years then? Oh, yeah, bc there aren’t any

The vaccines are tested and approved.

 

So back at you,  why don’t you provide evidence that the vaccines are not safe and effective?

 

Oh and a warm welcome to the forum.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Backthatvaxup]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The vaccines are tested and approved.

 

So back at you,  why don’t you provide evidence that the vaccines are not safe and effective?

 

Oh and a warm welcome to the forum.

 

 

 

 

Because I’m not trying to force anyone to take it. 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

Because I’m not trying to force anyone to take it. 

Am I?

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Virt said:

Why are there so many new accounts that are anti vax?

Did your official account get banned?

Of course it did, there was one prolific one banned yesterday, low and behold this springs up today

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Backthatvaxup said:

Every statement you make is false

 

Where are those vaccine examples that got approved within months? Oh you skipped right over that one. Wonder why. 

You start of by accusing me of lying and then move on to your presumption that I owe you some examples.

 

As a brand new member you are perhaps not aware that it’s not acceptable to accuse others of lying without very good evidence.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

Every statement you make is false

 

Where are those vaccine examples that got approved within months? Oh you skipped right over that one. Wonder why. 

Here, have a read...........

 

How did we develop a COVID-19 vaccine so quickly?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-did-we-develop-a-covid-19-vaccine-so-quickly

[Backthatvaxup]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You start of by accusing me of lying and then move on to your presumption that I owe you some examples.

 

As a brand new member you are perhaps not aware that it’s not acceptable to accuse others of lying without very good evidence.

 

 

 

This exchange started with you word playing with “can”, and me calling you out asking for the examples you speak of in real life where vaccines are approved in months, not the years they always take.

 

You never provided any example. Your statements are all debunked after that as not credible. 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

 

This exchange started with you word playing with “can”, and me calling you out asking for the examples you speak of in real life where vaccines are approved in months, not the years they always take.

 

You never provided any example. Your statements are all debunked after that as not credible. 

No, it start with the OP, who misinterpreted a statement that was not relevant to the vaccines in discussion.

 

Correct compression of what’s written is not ‘word play’.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

Why didn’t we do that with all vaccines? We just let people die? Why are the creators protected under shields in this case? Why is data trying to be sealed for decades by the fda? So many whys it’s hard to keep up. 
 

And also, no example in the history of the world of a vaccine being released this quickly. How convenient it all is. 

That things happen faster in the 21st century than they did in previous centuries is news to you?

 

It’s certainly not an argument against progress, the Luddite’s lost that argument at the beginning of the 19th Century.

 

The COVID vaccines are approved, safe and effective.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

Right. It’s not relevant that the fda has a timeline for all vaccines to be approved. Not relevant at all.

The FDA approved the vaccines, and they are both safe and effective, that’s the relevant bit.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Backthatvaxup said:

Oh so now your argument has changed. So the Covid vaccines we have miraculously entered a new time paradigm where our technologies are much more advanced and able to hack the timelines of ALL previous vaccines on the magnitude of 10-20x or more. Ok… it’s one way to look at things. 

No, my argument has not changed.

 

But you are catching on, technology has changed.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

I am not the one who needs to read more. 

Just about says it all. You can ask questions but are blind to learn the answer......lol

[Backthatvaxup]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Just about says it all. You can ask questions but are blind to learn the answer......lol

If your answers are true why wouldn’t pharma remove liability shields? There’s no problem… and then many more people would vax. So… what’s the problem?

[Backthatvaxup]

26 minutes ago, Backthatvaxup said:

In all honesty the guy who started the thread has a tough decision. I certainly would not listen to the people here, for obvious reasons. Including myself.

 

You gotta answer the questions for yourself..

why is this vaccine all the sudden miraculously different from every other vaccine in history with regards to its timeline?

 

why do they need liability shields?

 

why aren’t they 100% transparent with their data? (You know, the data they used to feed you those 95% effective numbers in the beginning)

 

why can’t doctors discuss the severe side effects people are getting with patients? (Completely unprecedented)

 

why are there renowned medical experts in the field who are telling us the vaccines can be very harmful in many ways? 
 

this list could go on… really, for pages, but those are the types of questions you need good answers to.

 

If I had a child my thing would be why not wait? They’re not in danger statistically speaking. Driving can be dangerous too but we don’t think about that. I’d put it off until there is full agreement, AS THERE IS WITHAL OSTALL MODERN DAY VACCINES COMMONLY GIVEN! But not this one. 

 

This is the answer to op question in my estimation. The oxymoronic stuff needs to go. This is where you find the goods. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Backthatvaxup said:

Ok… forget every question. Focus on one… for those reading along, however few. 
 

Why liability shields??

 

You claim they are 100% “safe and effective” over and over. 
 

Why on earth would somebody need so much protection f something is so so safe? 
 

You see, there is no answer to an oxymoronic situation. That is one hell of a term to describe your arguments too: “oxymoronic” maybe get a tattoo 

I’ve never claimed vaccines are 100% safe and effective.

 

Another one of your imaginings?!

 

I can think of a number of reasons why blanket immunity was given, in order of what I believe to be most likely:

 

1. The pharmaceutical companies had a very strong bargaining position (government desperate for them to deliver vaccines), so they used their bargaining power to get blanket immunity.

 

And/Or  

 

2. People within the government who have long sought to deregulate the Pharmaceutical industry lobbied for blanket immunity.

Meanwhile the vaccines are safe and effective.

[Backthatvaxup]

It’s almost too hilarious, scanning through the forum, HUGE developments lately…

 

six or so countries lifting ALL Covid restrictions

 

statements that were previously “misinformation” now being uttered by the cdc

 

natural immunity has been shown to be as effective vaccine at times

 

Yet no discussion of any of it in the forum, that I saw anyway. None. Hmmm. Makes wonder, doesn’t it? Makes you wonder about those oxymoronics. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Backthatvaxup said:

It’s almost too hilarious, scanning through the forum, HUGE developments lately…

 

six or so countries lifting ALL Covid restrictions

 

statements that were previously “misinformation” now being uttered by the cdc

 

natural immunity has been shown to be as effective vaccine at times

 

Yet no discussion of any of it in the forum, that I saw anyway. None. Hmmm. Makes wonder, doesn’t it? Makes you wonder about those oxymoronics. 

I don’t expect you would have seen the evidence of discussion on these matter on this forum, you’ve only been a member here since the past 30 minutes.

[CharlieH]

A number of reported posts, responses, unsubstantiated claims and plain bickering posts removed.