2 hours ago, heybruce said:

If any of these countries want to leave NATO all they have to do is say so. 

 

Have any asked to leave?

Actually, it's not that easy, there is some time frame for the notice and other conditions. 

 

Anyway, do you truly believe that any current members is now in the position to placed a notice a be so brave (as France once was with their strong general) to pursue it without any pressure from outside?

15 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Actually, it's not that easy, there is some time frame for the notice and other conditions. 

 

Anyway, do you truly believe that any current members is now in the position to placed a notice a be so brave (as France once was with their strong general) to pursue it without any pressure from outside?

16 hours ago, garyk said:

You retirees better set aside some funds for a rapid departure.

Ha! To where, exactly?

19 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Ha! To where, exactly?

Latin America?

 

51 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Here's the complete graphic with a link:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/02/09/nato-seen-favorably-across-member-states/pg_2020-02-09_nato_0-04/

Edited February 23, 20224 yr by placeholder

4 hours ago, Saanim said:

Yes, they did so eagerly and also foolishly (under the meme: Oh, how we will be hey once we'll get here the boys from USA).

Perhaps you should go there now and ask them whether they would do again so "eagerly"...

Most want it (membership in NATO) even more now. Little Vladdy the Psychopath, who hangs a photo of Nicolas II in his office, has invaded Georgia and Ukraine, and led the slaughter of 200,000 in Chechnya. He has killed opponents and critics (Anna Politkovskaya, Alexander Litvenenko, inter alia) at home and abroad...even had Ukraine President Yushchenko poisoned with dioxin....and considers the breakup of the bankrupt USSR 'the greatest crime of the 20th Century' (which kind of usurps the Holocaust in his sick mind). He wants to rebuild the landmass and influence of the former USSR. The Balkan States are particular anxious, and glad to have NATO Article 5 protection.

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Most want it (membership in NATO) even more now. Little Vladdy the Psychopath, who hangs a photo of Nicolas II in his office, has invaded Georgia and Ukraine, and led the slaughter of 200,000 in Chechnya. He has killed opponents and critics (Anna Politkovskaya, Alexander Litvenenko, inter alia) at home and abroad...even had Ukraine President Yushchenko poisoned with dioxin....and considers the breakup of the bankrupt USSR 'the greatest crime of the 20th Century' (which kind of usurps the Holocaust in his sick mind). He wants to rebuild the landmass and influence of the former USSR. The Balkan States are particular anxious, and glad to have NATO Article 5 protection.

I wonder what he meant with this sentence.

 

"Now grateful descendants have demolished monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. This is what they call de-communization. Do you want de-communization? Well, this quite suits us. But you must not stop halfway. We are ready to show you what genuine de-communization means for Ukraine," Putin said in his address to the nation over the situation in Ukraine’s southeast.

The Thai necktie will keep tightening for western expats.  Russia and China will be the market in the future. Just a matter of how long now, and how fast they want to tighten the noose. 

13 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Do you truly believe that you will find unfavorable figures?

Edited February 24, 20224 yr by Saanim

On 2/24/2022 at 10:05 AM, Saanim said:

Do you truly believe that you will find unfavorable figures?

Those are credible figures and you're not presenting any contrary evidence.

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday announced a military operation in Ukraine, claiming it’s intended to protect civilians.

In a televised address, Putin said the action comes in response to threats coming from Ukraine. He added that Russia doesn’t have a goal to occupy Ukraine. Putin said the responsibility for bloodshed lies with the Ukrainian “regime.”

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

Edited February 24, 20224 yr by ozimoron

Appears the surgical strikes have begun.

Putin does seem to want all out conflict with the west and China will be onside, scary times.

22 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday announced a military operation in Ukraine, claiming it’s intended to protect civilians.

In a televised address, Putin said the action comes in response to threats coming from Ukraine. He added that Russia doesn’t have a goal to occupy Ukraine. Putin said the responsibility for bloodshed lies with the Ukrainian “regime.”

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

When did "Kiev" become "Kyiv?"

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

When did "Kiev" become "Kyiv?"

Since Ukraine became independent of Russia and the Russian version Kiev, or at least since Russia started waving it's weapons again.

Edited February 24, 20224 yr by Thailand

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

Since Ukraine became independent of Russia and the Russian version Kiev

So, it looks like in a few days we'll be back to calling it "Kiev" again?

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

So, it looks like in a few days we'll be back to calling it "Kiev" again?

Putingrad?

Has Thailand condemned the unprovoked attack yet? 

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

Has Thailand condemned the unprovoked attack yet? 

That would take backbone.

here is an explanation of Putin's motivation

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/2/23/22945781/russia-ukraine-putin-speech-transcript-february-22

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/12/russia-ukraine-what-does-putin-want

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The fact that NATO is very expensive is a reason for the west not wanting it. The single reason that's not possible is Russia's aggression. Ukraine has been an independent nation since 1991. Russia should respect that.

It would cost the likes of Germany, Italy and Spain even more if they paid their fair amount. They all agreed to pay 2% of GDP to NATO for their defence, yet many like Germany make no effort to do so, and are happy for the US taxpayer to pick up their bill. That they do not pair their fair share of the bill is certainly not Russia's fault. If memory serves correctly it was only President Trump that had the stones to haul Germany's feet over the coals about this, in fact the conference where he roasts the Germans over this and the perceived corruption of German insiders controlling Nordstream2 construction is now legendary.

 

"“I have to say, I think it’s very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia where we’re supposed to be guarding against Russia,” Mr. Trump went on. “We’re supposed to protect you against Russia, but they’re paying billions of dollars to Russia and I think that’s very inappropriate.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/world/europe/germany-merkel-russia-trump-nato.html

 

If this guy was still at the helm the world would still be peaceful and prosperous as it was under his term. Such a shame.

 

Today of all days.   

 

 

IMHO, sanctions will have little effect. Do you not think that Putin has already considered this ?

My take on it is that for the short-term he will take Donetsk and Luhansk. NATO and its allies will object and impose relatively lacklustre sanctions. Putin, enboldened by the weakness of NATO will push further into Kiev (Kyev) with more posturing by politicians and slightly stronger sanctions but again no military response.

Ukraine under Russian control within months.

 

NATO will have to bolster its armanments across Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary - Moldova will be lost to the Russians.

 

If there were any reprisals from NATO then Putin only has to switch off the gas. Just think of it, cold homes across Europe, manufacturing in disarry, populations rising up against their governments. It all plays into Putins hands

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 20224 yr by Chelseafan

Asisn markets take a hit,

and the baht goes on.

Oil prices are US$100 early Thursday morning. Shortly before dawn European time, Brent crude, the international benchmark, was up 4.4 per cent, and rising fast, taking it to more than US$101 a barrel, a new 52-week high. West Texas Intermediate benchmark, were up by a similar amount, as were natural gas prices.

Expect to pay more for all petroleum related products in the very near future.

Today, as a result of invasion of Ukraine, gold is surging upwards, it is almost certain that equities will go in the opposite direction, as markets open. On Thursday, U.S. equity futures were down about 2 per cent and European futures down by about 3 per cent. US treasury yields down, from 1.6% to 1.5%, flight to safety. Russian Ruble is plunging, more than 80 for US$1. Bitcoin and all crypto plunging as at 5PM Thailand time.

BTC US$35,541.20 -4.64%

EOS	$ 1.93	-8.53%
ETH	$ 2,388.42	-7.47%
XRP	$ 0.6408	-7.96%
BCH	$ 268.88	-6.77%

Edited February 24, 20224 yr by Banana7

As fuel prices rise here everything else will increase in price.

On the big picture, I am glad I am here and not the Ukraine.  Or any western country for that matter.

One of the problems I foresee....

 

Russian invaded Afghanistan - got their butts kicked - loss

USA invaded Vietnam, Afghanistan - got their butts kicked - loss

USA pretty much messed up the entire middle east - did not get anything from it exept their fingers burn and destabilized the region - loss

 

If Russia invades Ukrain and takes it over cleanly without a follow up Guerrila war - then it shows that Russia is able to do something the USA has failed at many times - going into a country and taking it.

 

At that point - balance of power changes forever. 

5 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

If Russia invades Ukrain and takes it over cleanly without a follow up Guerrila war - then it shows that Russia is able to do something the USA has failed at many times - going into a country and taking it.

Of course, as a sort of tit for tat, the US could take over Russia's two assets in the Americas, Cuba and Venezuela.

No way the US can stop any of this going further. The US armed forces are soft and weakened, if not degenerate. And who knows how many foreign agents and saboteurs have come across the southern US border in the past year. The country is utterly vulnerable, not hardened physically, psychologically, fiscally, or intellectually. Could collapse like a popped balloon.