Opinion: Thailand’s ambiguous stance on Ukraine’s highlights her own insecurities (even among her liberals)

[Pique Dard]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:19 AM, 2umich said:

I was born in USSR, so I know history of this region. Moscow was always looking to expand its territory since time when it was established by Mongols as base to loot neighbors.

 

NATO is defensive alliance, to protect from aggressive countries like Russia is.

Serbia is very pro-russian country in a middle of Europe, but nobody force them to join NATO or EU, nobody invade them.

 

i don't need to believe you were born in russia, but just let me tell you this: I DON'T SUPPORT RUSSIA, but facts remain: talking about the aggression, at the berlin wall's fall, nato had  ONLY 19 members vs 30 or more to-day. nato  is NOT  a defensive alliance! again, check the facts! just ONE EXAMPLE , did Libya attack a country in europe?

i don't know if aseannow allow this, but if you have time (the video is nearly 2 hours long) watch on Youtube "The Everlasting Present - Ukraine 30 years of Independence"

[Pique Dard]

On 3/2/2022 at 10:23 PM, Jingthing said:

What a load

Donbas is not Russia 

Its Ukraine.

Russia stole Crimea.

Separatist Russian backed rebels have been in an armed conflict.

You're painting them as innocent victims.

That is a crock.

Does your country just accept separatist rebels? 

Enough with the Vietnam whataboutism.

Different topic.

I was an antiwar protester.

There is zero threat of Russia being a US puppet! That is completely absurd. Russia has the most nukes in the world.

No need to reply.

By taking Putin's paranoia seriously that is the POV that suggests his barbaric war crimes assault on Ukraine is justified. NYET!

 

"No need to reply"! right ????

 i don't know if aseannow allow this, but if you have time (the video is nearly 2 hours long) watch on Youtube "The Everlasting Present - Ukraine 30 years of Independence"

[candide]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:45 AM, Pique Dard said:

the question is WHY russia "invaded" ukraine? who remembers james baker "U.S. Secretary of State James Baker's famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion". 

this statement was made in 1990 and  now suddenly has become a myth in some media!

the current war  isn't  SPECIFICALLY against ukraine, it is  against the expansion of nato. those are facts, however it doesn't  mean i support the war.

It surely makes Putin angry. However, this promise was made to an entity (USSR) which has been dissolved in December 1991. A dissolution mainly caused by the Russian Federation, when its democratically elected government decided to leave the Soviet Union in June 1991 and declared its independence.

 

So basically, the head of Russia is complaining about unkept promises, which have been made to an entity that Russia officially left more than 30 years ago.

 

[2umich]

On 3/15/2022 at 12:18 PM, Pique Dard said:

i don't need to believe you were born in russia, but just let me tell you this: I DON'T SUPPORT RUSSIA, but facts remain: talking about the aggression, at the berlin wall's fall, nato had  ONLY 19 members vs 30 or more to-day. nato  is NOT  a defensive alliance! again, check the facts! just ONE EXAMPLE , did Libya attack a country in europe?

i don't know if aseannow allow this, but if you have time (the video is nearly 2 hours long) watch on Youtube "The Everlasting Present - Ukraine 30 years of Independence"

NATO is irrelevant here. Moscow doesn't need a reason to start a war, expansion is purpose of it's existence since Moscow Tsardom. Transnistria, Abkhazia, Chechnya, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh are modern examples.

 

I don't need watch any videos as I know facts from within. I have relatives and friends in Ukraine and Russia and getting information from them.

[placeholder]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:55 AM, Hayduke said:

 

Thailand's public stance on the Ukraine conflict is consistent with China's public stance on the Ukraine conflict. Any position not in agreement with China....is clearly out of the question.

 

 

Nonsense. Apart from the economically most advanced nations, most of the world has remained neutral on the issue. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:42 PM, Iamfalang said:

You are either the bully, getting bullied, or hiding until the dust settles.  This is a big boy fight.  Let America and china decide, every other country has no other choice but watch.   Thailand is protecting their interests, and can do so until the bat phone rings from one of the big boys.   

It's no more Thailand's fight than Ethiopia or Yemen, IMO. Best staying out of it unless they are being threatened with invasion.

IMO small countries rarely benefit from joining in the big boy's conflicts.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:19 PM, 2umich said:

I was born in USSR, so I know history of this region. Moscow was always looking to expand its territory since time when it was established by Mongols as base to loot neighbors.

 

NATO is defensive alliance, to protect from aggressive countries like Russia is.

Serbia is very pro-russian country in a middle of Europe, but nobody force them to join NATO or EU, nobody invade them.

 

Yes NATO is a defensive alliance, but they have no mandate to get involved with countries that are not part of NATO.

[placeholder]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:26 AM, John Drake said:

Not choosing a side means you have chosen Russia. Choosing Russia means you have chosen China. Not choosing a side, then, means you have chosen China.

That makes about as much sense as claiming that not choosing a side means choosing India which has also remained neutral. Thailand has economically rational reasons for remaining neutral that have nothing to do with China. What isn't rational is looking to label China as the prime mover behind all of Thailand's foreign policy decisions.

[placeholder]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:52 PM, puck2 said:

Please show us your numbers to improve the nonsense you are writing.

 

In 2021 Russia had a population of only ~145 (!) million people. The world has a population of a little bit below 8 BILLION.  And including "sympathisers" it should be more than "half + 1"  ???

What's laughable are you assumptions. India and China between them have about one third of the world's population. How many countries in Asia have taken sides? How about Indonesia?  What about Africa and South America? Basically, it's Europe and economically advanced nations elsewhere that have taken action to punish Russia for its aggression.

[placeholder]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:20 AM, Pique Dard said:

but not a wall against the usa imperialism? i tried to explain why poutine felt entitled to take this UNFORTUNATE decision, but most of the comments here accuse me of supporting the war!

That's because your reasons are basically BS. Putin is on the record saying that Ukraine isn't a real country. He's on the record endorsing the stance of Alexander Dugin, the Russian neo-fascist political philosopher, who calls for reabsorption of all the nations that were once part of the Russian empire. Dugin particularly singles out Ukraine as being absolutely crucial to that project.

[placeholder]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:30 PM, Neeranam said:

Whose opinion is this?

 

Why on Earth should Thailand care about a war in Europe? Anyway, it's not a European war but just two neighbouring countries who have been at it for years. 

Don't be fooled by the US and others' propoganda. 

No, they haven't been at it for years. Russia alone has been at it.

[Stygge]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:40 PM, Pique Dard said:

... if you take time to read the history, i'm sure you'll see it's the other way round. that said, once more time, i don't support war

Basically condoning Russias narrative but saying you are against the war doesn´t really count.
The difference between Russia and free Europe is that Russia has a long history of subduing thier neighbors and preferably incorporate them in Russia.
The countries close to Russia knows this so given the chance of choice they wisely choosed NATO as the only security for Russian aggression.
Russias (Putins) imperalistic old thinking is that Russia and USA is in a struggle for world domination. Russias thinking is that no country in Europe has a will of their own but are all owned by USA. They regard NATO as USA.
Of course this is wrong. In the real world all these countries has a will of thier own, disconnected from USA. NATO has rules for membership. If you qualify and choose to apply you can become a member. Nobody is forcing them to be members of NATO. They choose to be. A free will Putin dislike in principle.
That´s why NATO has expanded. Russias neighbors has noticed Russias accelerated aggression to it´s neigbors and the rest of the world and found refuge in NATO as the only organization that can protect them.

But the main reason Putin invade Ukraine is the fear of a democratic country developing close to Russia. Democracy will make Ukraine a rich western standard country and Putin is afraid this will give ordinary russians ideas of a better society. That´s why grinding Ukraine to a rubble make sens to him.

 

[futsukayoi]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:48 AM, mtls2005 said:

Danced through WW2 appeasing everyone so this should be a cake-walk.

 

 

Yeah, but have they forgotten how Russia dealt with its Royal Family?

 

 

 

How do you get that. Thailand allied with the Axis in World War 2. 

 

[Saanim]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

That's because your reasons are basically BS. Putin is on the record saying that Ukraine isn't a real country. He's on the record endorsing the stance of Alexander Dugin, the Russian neo-fascist political philosopher, who calls for reabsorption of all the nations that were once part of the Russian empire. Dugin particularly singles out Ukraine as being absolutely crucial to that project.

Any link to that?  Don't you know that some here are always calling for a link? However, sometimes the same ones are happy with no link, just an assertion... 

[Saanim]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:48 AM, mtls2005 said:

Danced through WW2 appeasing everyone so this should be a cake-walk.

 

 

Yeah, but have they forgotten how Russia dealt with its Royal Family?

 

 

 

Why not to mention also the other who too were not so nice to Royal Families? Neither to the original people. Sometimes even to the own people.  

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, Stygge said:

But the main reason Putin invade Ukraine is the fear of a democratic country developing close to Russia. Democracy will make Ukraine a rich western standard country and Putin is afraid this will give ordinary russians ideas of a better society. Th

If we were to believe your assertion please enlighten us why the democratic country has not become within the last 20 years "a rich western standard country" but the poorest country in Europe?  Or just a bit better than Moldova.

 

But Moldova did not get such a great support, also not a huge IMF loan (that is not being paid back). 

 

So, why so many Ukrainians have left the country as a cheap workforce in Europe - even to Thailand (not the men) - no census over 20 years - so it really had to scare the "ordinary Russians", hadn't it?    

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

Any link to that?  Don't you know that some here are always calling for a link? However, sometimes the same ones are happy with no link, just an assertion... 

Yes, some here, me among them, do call for links. And the fact is, that usually those who are called on evaporate. I don't. 

Here's a link:

How Putin's Denial of Ukraine's Statehood Rewrites History

As Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops into two rebel-held regions in eastern Ukraine late Monday night, recognizing the regions as independent, he returned to a familiar argument that the Kremlin has pushed for years: that Ukraine’s claim to statehood is entirely baseless. In a televised address to the nation, Putin explicitly denied that Ukraine had ever had “real statehood,” and said the country was an integral part of Russia’s “own history, culture, spiritual space.”

https://time.com/6150046/ukraine-statehood-russia-history-putin/

 

Here's another:

 "In 2008, Putin told a surprised George W. Bush that “Ukraine is not a country”; "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/19/ukraines-not-a-country-putin-told-bush-whatd-he-tell-trump-about-montenegro/

 

 

[Myran]

Opinion: A country is an "it", not a "her".

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

If we were to believe your assertion please enlighten us why the democratic country has not become within the last 20 years "a rich western standard country" but the poorest country in Europe?  Or just a bit better than Moldova.

 

But Moldova did not get such a great support, also not a huge IMF loan (that is not being paid back). 

 

So, why so many Ukrainians have left the country as a cheap workforce in Europe - even to Thailand (not the men) - no census over 20 years - so it really had to scare the "ordinary Russians", hadn't it?    

Really? You have to ask that question?

How about the economic war that Russia has waged on Ukraine since 2005 when it quintupled the price of natural gas Ukraine after, its favored candidate, Leonid Kuchma lost the campaign for re-election.

You think maybe Russia troops sent into the east, in the industrial heartland, might have had something to do with that? It's an economic ruin now.

 

 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Myran said:

Opinion: A country is an "it", not a "her".

Historically, "her" was commonly used as a pronoun for not only women, but also for both countries and ships (e.g. sailing vessels).

However, that usage has more or less fallen out of favor, and instead "its" has become the preferred pronoun. Nevertheless, you'll still see "she" or "her" used depending on the preferences of the author.

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2007/01/is-a-country-a-she-or-an-it.html

[Myran]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Historically, "her" was commonly used as a pronoun for not only women, but also for both countries and ships (e.g. sailing vessels).

However, that usage has more or less fallen out of favor, and instead "its" has become the preferred pronoun. Nevertheless, you'll still see "she" or "her" used depending on the preferences of the author.

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2007/01/is-a-country-a-she-or-an-it.html

Great, thanks for confirming I'm correct.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, Myran said:

Great, thanks for confirming I'm correct.

The usage is old-fashioned. That doesn't make it incorrect. 

[Sheryl]

Please stay on topic.

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Really? You have to ask that question?

How about the economic war that Russia has waged on Ukraine since 2005 when it quintupled the price of natural gas Ukraine after, its favored candidate, Leonid Kuchma lost the campaign for re-election.

You think maybe Russia troops sent into the east, in the industrial heartland, might have had something to do with that? It's an economic ruin now.

 

 

Actually, Ukraine have gotten free money from the gas transit over many years. What they have used for themselves was always with the lowest prices (with always a huge debt urged to pay), beside what they have served themselves with no payment. 

 

Please enlighten us how their poverty was caused by Russia. Many of the best industry of USSR had been left to Ukraine. How had they managed it over the years?

  

That the money generously and freely received from different sources had not been always directed to the country welfare but to their leaders is no secrecy, permanently ranking among the most corruption countries.  (Call a spade a spade)

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Saanim said:

That the money generously and freely received from different sources had not been always directed to the country welfare but to their leaders is no secrecy, permanently ranking among the most corruption countries.  (Call a spade a spade)

If your going to call a spade a spade then perhaps look to Russia who have far more corruption than Ukraine.

[TooMuchTime]

Zelensky is a noble man who is open to criticism and made Ukrainians richer than himself.

 

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

Zelensky is a noble man who is open to criticism and made Ukrainians richer than himself.

 

 

That's not what the Pandora Papers say.

[zzaa09]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Nonsense. Apart from the economically most advanced nations, most of the world has remained neutral on the issue. 

Indeed. This is the reality. Not a world issue whatsoever, but a highly selected and culturally promoted intense affair concerning only a couple. Most of the world's communities understand this and aren't buying it. Reality. 

[zzaa09]

22 minutes ago, Saanim said:

That's not what the Pandora Papers say.

Shhh.....we don't mention these things within the perimeters of particular indoctrinated circles. 

The real back stories, truths and dodgy/suspicious scenarios are conveniently omitted from most everything. 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Indeed. This is the reality. Not a world issue whatsoever, but a highly selected and culturally promoted intense affair concerning only a couple. Most of the world's communities understand this and aren't buying it. Reality. 

141 countries out of 193 voted that Russia “immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders.”

 

Known informally as the world’s “town hall”, the Assembly is where all 193 UN Member States have a voice. A total of 141 countries voted in favour of the resolution, which reaffirms Ukrainian sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity. 

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1113152