Globally we are entering a very fragile state: is Asia ready?

[John Drake]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

They won't but nice sentiment.

I'm more concerned about the Putin loving coming out of India as they are a major power.

China of course is a lost cause.

Of course, India sides with Putin. Both countries are led by authoritarian rulers who justify their power through rabid nationalist ideologies. You should read the Indian press and the interviews with people on the street. They make Russians look like Quakers. Plus India has sided with Russia against the West since its inception. India is a far greater threat than China, which whatever the complaints, tends to act rationally and predictably in foreign affairs. China's growth after all is due solely to the Clintons and Bushes selling the farm in order to get cheap trinkets in return.

[trainman34014]

9 hours ago, Inala said:

If Russia is counting you as a friend, then you know deep down inside that you're doing something wrong. Talk about setting a low benchmark for your country...
Is Thailand so desperate for tourists that they would side with a psychopath? 

The quick answer is yes; because all they ever think about in Bangkok is MONEY !

 

[allanos]

What Putin and his troops are doing in Ukraine is abhorrent, no question. Thailand's stance in all of this is a side-show, not to be even a footnote in history. 

 

Aside from the hysterical chants that he is a psychopath or a megalomaniac, what does a reasoned analysis of the bigger picture say? The man is an ex-KGB major, after all, and no doubt has an above-average appreciation of geopolitics.

 

He did not wake up one morning and say, "I think I will invade Ukraine today"; a lot of thought, analysis and planning would have gone into making the decision. It is also true to say that he has only wrought a small percentage of Russia's overall might upon Ukraine; he could have used the vast Soviet air-power to quickly bring the whole of Ukraine to its figurative knees. But he hasn't done so. What is the game-plan?

 

What too, is the endgame? Mr Putin will surely have one in mind. We have yet to see it play out.

 

And to the poster who said wars are all about money, I agree wholeheartedly. There are bankers and middlemen no doubt rubbing their grubby little hands with glee, for, no matter the outcome, they will exit far richer than when they went into the war.

 

 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Of course, India sides with Putin. Both countries are led by authoritarian rulers who justify their power through rabid nationalist ideologies. You should read the Indian press and the interviews with people on the street. They make Russians look like Quakers. Plus India has sided with Russia against the West since its inception. India is a far greater threat than China, which whatever the complaints, tends to act rationally and predictably in foreign affairs. China's growth after all is due solely to the Clintons and Bushes selling the farm in order to get cheap trinkets in return.

Perhaps you should be telling Australia that, it is in the process of signing a very large trade agreement with India, and also is the venue of choice for many young Indians seeking tertiary qualifications.

AFAIK India is still a democracy, it sides with Russia because the majority of its military hardware is sourced from there. Although given the performance of Russian equipment in Ukraine, it should be having second thoughts.

[NobbyClarke]

Somebody will eventually get a sniper and he will be enjoying the depths and fire of hell with Hitler.

The Russian people leaving Thailand and across the world will have some truths to tell their friends family and colleagues when they return.

Glory to Ukraine

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, allanos said:

 

He did not wake up one morning and say, "I think I will invade Ukraine today"; a lot of thought, analysis and planning would have gone into making the decision. It is also true to say that he has only wrought a small percentage of Russia's overall might upon Ukraine; he could have used the vast Soviet air-power to quickly bring the whole of Ukraine to its figurative knees. But he hasn't done so. What is the game-plan?

 

 

 

 

That thought, analysis and planning was deficient, because Putin had surrounded himself with yes-men. He did not have anyone in his inner circle of advisers to say this is a bad idea.

Russia does not have undisputed control of Ukrainian airspace. America had total control of the skies over Vietnam and Afghanistan, wars are won or lost on the ground.

[allanos]

"That thought, analysis and planning was deficient, because Putin had surrounded himself with yes-men. He did not have anyone in his inner circle of advisers to say this is a bad idea".

 

Do you have intimate knowledge of this, or is it simply conjecture on your part? Are you privy

to the strategic inputs of Soviet central command?

 

"Russia does not have undisputed control of Ukrainian airspace".

 

No, but they could have, if they wanted it, and was my point which you have overlooked.

 

 

[Inala]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've not watched one report.

The answer is to not watch western anti-Russian, anti-Chinese propaganda.

Was it any different when America was invading Arab countries?

Did we all feel the need to boycott America?

Then you're either burying your head in the sand or otherwise the implication is that you're only watching pro-Russian, pro-Chinese reports. Which then leads us to conclude that you're a supporter of authoritarian states and autocratic rule. To those of us who grew up in the Pax Americana era, both of these are an anathema to us, as they invariably concentrate power and fabulous wealth at the very top few, whilst the other 99% of the nation scrapes by at or just above poverty level. Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely. In regards to the American invasions of Arab states, the Gulf War was done to protect Kuwait against a completely unprovoked and unjustified Iraqi invasion. The second invasion was done because of the belief that Iraq were holding large stores of WMDs. This was understandable since Hussein had already used those weapons against his own people. But it was never intended to be a permanent occupation. It was a force sent in to cleanup corruption and restore order.

For the most part, America has acted as a kind of benevolent big brother figure, allowing most countries around the world to flourish under their world order and become quite rich in doing so. China is a perfect example of this. The problem we're facing now is that these authoritarian states have become inordinately rich and simply don't wish to respect the world order. They want to seize power and land thought to the use of violence and destroying other sovereign countries.

It's actually a fact that some people crave mega rules and thrive under authoritarian rule. All decision making is taken out of their hands and the state provides a huge amount of their day to day needs. My father is like this. He can't tell a lie, he can't break even the most insignificant rule. He would do well under authoritarian rule. But for the majority of us, we want to leave a life of freedom. Democracy is not perfect and has many flaws. It takes a high degree of personal responsibility and decision making to thrive under democracy, but at LEAST YOU'RE FREE!     

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll/misleading  posts have been removed

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

Not so right this time. India is a democrat and republic state since 1947 and the worlds population is 7,953,952,577 

BS.

Those mentioned countries are allied and voted for Putin in UN.

(I'm not counting little countries as eg Vanuatu or Seychellen also)

So take in account that 3 billion people agree with Putin.

And half of the world are undemocratic states.

 

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Inala said:

It's actually a fact that some people crave mega rules and thrive under authoritarian rule. All decision making is taken out of their hands and the state provides a huge amount of their day to day needs. My father is like this. He can't tell a lie, he can't break even the most insignificant rule. He would do well under authoritarian rule. But for the majority of us, we want to leave a life of freedom.

Would point out, having spent a little time in China, and a lot of time in the UK, China appeared freer than the nanny state that is the UK. Suspect America is the same with very little personal freedom.

 

As for Russia and the Ukraine, it's a long way away, and I don't really care if people I don't know and probably wouldn't like kill each other.

[starky]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I would like to see more of the world beyond the west unite against Putin. Japan and Australia are western.

Australia as much as they hate to admit it is now and always has been a part of asia. Geograpically at the very least

[starky]

1 hour ago, allanos said:

What Putin and his troops are doing in Ukraine is abhorrent, no question. Thailand's stance in all of this is a side-show, not to be even a footnote in history. 

 

Aside from the hysterical chants that he is a psychopath or a megalomaniac, what does a reasoned analysis of the bigger picture say? The man is an ex-KGB major, after all, and no doubt has an above-average appreciation of geopolitics.

 

He did not wake up one morning and say, "I think I will invade Ukraine today"; a lot of thought, analysis and planning would have gone into making the decision. It is also true to say that he has only wrought a small percentage of Russia's overall might upon Ukraine; he could have used the vast Soviet air-power to quickly bring the whole of Ukraine to its figurative knees. But he hasn't done so. What is the game-plan?

 

What too, is the endgame? Mr Putin will surely have one in mind. We have yet to see it play out.

 

And to the poster who said wars are all about money, I agree wholeheartedly. There are bankers and middlemen no doubt rubbing their grubby little hands with glee, for, no matter the outcome, they will exit far richer than when they went into the war.

 

 

Yes and moat of those in the position to make the most money are? Drumroll please, Raytheon, Grumman, lockheed martin et al. Now where have i heard those names before?

 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/03/11/these-members-of-congress-could-make-profit-us-arms-shipments-ukraine.html

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out, having spent a little time in China, and a lot of time in the UK, China appeared freer than the nanny state that is the UK. Suspect America is the same with very little personal freedom.

 

As for Russia and the Ukraine, it's a long way away, and I don't really care if people I don't know and probably wouldn't like kill each other.

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. You went for a holiday to China but you lived and worked in the UK. I've also been to China for a few days years ago and in no way would I be able to give a just comparison on how it would actually be like to live/work there under its rules and regulations as opposed to the UK where I grew up and lived.

[Cory1848]

7 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Really, I didn't see innocent people with their hands tied behind them and shot in the head in Iraq. Women raped, and children killed. This war is dirty and Russia needs to pay the price. A good start would be ending Putin's power.

You’re right, US troops (and troops of other NATO countries, and some other countries) are highly trained in rules of engagement, and while soldiers from any army can become brutalized and commit atrocities, at least some effort is made to hold US troops accountable when they occur (when they’re not being pardoned by rogue presidents). There’s no comparison with what Russian soldiers have done in Ukraine. I was referring to Bush II’s decision to invade Iraq in the first place -- as much based on calculated misinformation and hubris as Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

[CG1 Blue]

6 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

India abstained and as I said they buy cheap Russian oil. What I don't understand is why America doesn't open up the oil fields and sell oil and gas to the EU and lower the price of gas in the USA.

With oil isn't it a bit more complicated than just opening up supply lines? Something to do with how OPEC control the world oil supply / price. 

I think it's the same reason why the UK can't just simply take more oil from the North Sea to relieve the fuel price issues there. 

[DaveCW]

11 hours ago, hotchilli said:

So the bombed-out totally destroyed public buildings are lies?

 

I have often thought about this - why would they bomb civilian areas as they would obviously know it would end up in the media. Whilst serving in Afghanistan we were often in contact with the Taliban sniping, shooting, remotely detonating bombs from "built-up areas", with some restraint we often dealt with this by withdrawing and taking into account collateral damage etc. We had clear rules of engagement, different from say our US counterparts, who often simply calling in air support to deal with it. Perhaps thats what the Russian have done - I don't know if these building were being used for military purposes - therefore using any civilians as "Shields" do any of us know for sure? Last year the government of Ukraine was being painted as evil and corrupt by the West now they far from it. As mentioned many times propaganda from all sides hides the truth - There was even a news story recently where there was a line of supposedly dead civilians behind someone being interview - but you could see people moving under the sheets covering them... I'm not on the ground so cant comment on whats going on - But I have been in situations I'd rather forget, and I know there are always two perspectives and the ease of social media can corrupt - Just saying...

[vandeventer]

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

With oil isn't it a bit more complicated than just opening up supply lines? Something to do with how OPEC control the world oil supply / price. 

I think it's the same reason why the UK can't just simply take more oil from the North Sea to relieve the fuel price issues there. 

Your right oil might take a little longer but LPG is at hand and can be shipped as soon as Biden signs the order to release it.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, DaveCW said:

 As mentioned many times propaganda from all sides hides the truth - There was even a news story recently where there was a line of supposedly dead civilians behind someone being interview - but you could see people moving under the sheets covering them... I'm not on the ground so cant comment on whats going on - But I have been in situations I'd rather forget, and I know there are always two perspectives and the ease of social media can corrupt - Just saying...

Being ex military maybe you should have checked that story recently as it was fake and the footage was from a climate change protest in Austria. 

 

Channel 5 spreads Russian disinfo with fake report on ‘fake’ deaths in Ukraine

 

Two hosts on an army-owned TV station falsely claimed that Ukrainian people “faked casualties” in a report that misrepresented footage from a climate change protest in Austria. 

The erroneous report by hosts Kanok Ratwongsakul and Teera Tanyapaibul came earlier this week in an episode of their Lao Khao Khon program on the Royal Thai Army’s Channel 5.

“Watch this footage, there’re corpses lying there, we believe they are Ukrainian people … Do you see those bodies in the bags? Some bodies are still moving,” said Kanok, a reporter known for his far-right stance and history of distorted reporting.

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/channel-5-spreads-russian-disinfo-with-fake-report-on-fake-deaths-in-ukraine/

[friendofthai]

"Globally we are entering a very fragile state: is Asia ready?"

I would rather say it this way:"Western countries are entering a very fragile state: is Asia ready to fight for the West?"
And the answer should be: "And what about this face in the mirror? Why does not he go and fight for the West in the Ukraine? Why does he want Asia to fight for him instead?"

[DaveCW]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Being ex military maybe you should have checked that story recently as it was fake and the footage was from a climate change protest in Austria. 

 

Channel 5 spreads Russian disinfo with fake report on ‘fake’ deaths in Ukraine

 

Two hosts on an army-owned TV station falsely claimed that Ukrainian people “faked casualties” in a report that misrepresented footage from a climate change protest in Austria. 

The erroneous report by hosts Kanok Ratwongsakul and Teera Tanyapaibul came earlier this week in an episode of their Lao Khao Khon program on the Royal Thai Army’s Channel 5.

“Watch this footage, there’re corpses lying there, we believe they are Ukrainian people … Do you see those bodies in the bags? Some bodies are still moving,” said Kanok, a reporter known for his far-right stance and history of distorted reporting.

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/channel-5-spreads-russian-disinfo-with-fake-report-on-fake-deaths-in-ukraine/

I was simply pointing out the pitfalls of so called news stories (n matter the media or platform) and the ease of which propaganda can be be disseminated - The premise of what I was saying still stands...

 

VMT for the link...

[sawadee1947]

43 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

India abstained and as I said they buy cheap Russian oil. What I don't understand is why America doesn't open up the oil fields and sell oil and gas to the EU and lower the price of gas in the USA.

They sell gas and oil.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, DaveCW said:

I was simply pointing out the pitfalls of so called news stories (n matter the media or platform) and the ease of which propaganda can be be disseminated - The premise of what I was saying still stands...

 

VMT for the link...

It does but in your points you finished off with spreading a fake story yourself. 

[San Fran Dan]

11 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I just know, if it were correct, that the Thai government has 'NATO allies', or does the writer perhaps mean Western allies (e.g. the U.S.) that, accidentally, happen to be NATO members? Besides, Thailand over the past 15-20 years has more and more moved away from being allied with the West to being allied with, mostly, China, while still, at the same time, getting the benefits of U.S.-Thailand military exercises, and trade privileges.

 

Nowadays, the only country that Thailand doesn't want to 'upset' seems to be China, due to the fact that, economically, politically, and strategically all of Thailand's 'eggs' are in that red basket. 

Why was USA allowed in at beginning of Covid , no quarantine, Nothing for USA for high level meetings , I think respect for West is still

intact , trying to ride the fence obviously 

[San Fran Dan]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out, having spent a little time in China, and a lot of time in the UK, China appeared freer than the nanny state that is the UK. Suspect America is the same with very little personal freedom.

 

As for Russia and the Ukraine, it's a long way away, and I don't really care if people I don't know and probably wouldn't like kill each other.

Appeared is the magic word 

[San Fran Dan]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you should be telling Australia that, it is in the process of signing a very large trade agreement with India, and also is the venue of choice for many young Indians seeking tertiary qualifications.

AFAIK India is still a democracy, it sides with Russia because the majority of its military hardware is sourced from there. Although given the performance of Russian equipment in Ukraine, it should be having second thoughts.

They are having second thoughts , they cancelled on Military Jet Deal already 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, allanos said:

"That thought, analysis and planning was deficient, because Putin had surrounded himself with yes-men. He did not have anyone in his inner circle of advisers to say this is a bad idea".

 

Do you have intimate knowledge of this, or is it simply conjecture on your part? Are you privy

to the strategic inputs of Soviet central command?

 

"Russia does not have undisputed control of Ukrainian airspace".

 

No, but they could have, if they wanted it, and was my point which you have overlooked.

 

 

There's a Latin aphorism, res ipsa loquitor. " The thing speaks for itself."

No intimate knowledge needed, the performance of the Russian military in Ukraine is ample evidence of the deficiencies beforehand. A stalled 50 km long column of Russian tanks and support vehicles does not speak to good planning, logistics or flexibility. Patton would be turning in his grave. Or p$$$ing himself laughing.

 

The Stingers, Javelins etc. are making life hard for Russian pilots and tank commanders, and they cost considerably less than an aircraft or tank. Perfect tools for counter-attacking.

 

Stingers helped the Afghans boot the Soviets out of their country, you'd think the Russians would have developed better defenses against them 30 years later. Apparently not, it's what happens to militaries when there is a bunch of kleptocrats running a country.

[Rastatoto]

Back in 1940 everyone had to rely on newspapers or Pathe News shown in the cinemas, just to find out what was actually happening.

Or what the government’s propaganda machines wanted us to know.

 

Its still the same!! nothing change.. all depends from which country/channels you are checking your news ...

[AverageBloke]

9 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

 

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out, having spent a little time in China, and a lot of time in the UK, China appeared freer than the nanny state that is the UK. Suspect America is the same with very little personal freedom.

 

As for Russia and the Ukraine, it's a long way away, and I don't really care if people I don't know and probably wouldn't like kill each other.

LOL, personal freedom in the USA is mandatory. Ever heard of the NRA? In most states, one can ride a motorcycle without a helmet once they turn 21. Only 18 states have helmet laws. As for masks, a former president refused to wear one.

 

I suggest you check out mask and helmet laws in China, or perhaps you missed them with your rose-colored glasses.