RCCB - residual-current circuit breaker

[OneMoreFarang]

From a long time ago from back home I know RCCBs - residual-current circuit breaker.

I know in Germany they use the so called FI (Fehlerstromschutzschalter) over there with 30mA.

They are installed in the breaker box and the 30mA is a good value to protect and safe life.

 

But how about Thailand?

First, it seems they are not really common here, at least there are lots of breaker boxes without them.

And when I searched in Thai online shops the RCCBs are difficult to find at all (maybe they use another name). And then they use 100mA or even 300mA which, as far as I know, is not a good protection.

 

Here is one which I found with 30mA but I never heard of the brand "CHINT"

NL1-2-40-30AC | CHINT 2 Pole Type AC RCCB, 40A NL1, 30mA | RS Components (rs-online.com)

 

What do you know about RCCBs in Thailand? Do you use them? Which brand?

And are they all the same with the same specs or are there big differences?

 

P.S.: I just found some on Lazada from ABB - I hope the real thing.

 

This is a sample picture

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

RCDs (just earth leakage) and RCBOs (earth leakage with over-current) are readily available in all the big-box DIY places (HomePro, Global, ThaiWatsadu etc. etc.), usually 30mA but 10mA are available.

 

There is also an add-on box branded Safe-T-Cut which is an adjustable (30mA or lower) RCBO in a box, a bit expensive but handy to add on to an existing system.

 

At least a front-end RCBO is a requirement to pass the MEA or PEA inspection for a permanent supply so every new build "should" have one.

 

"Chint" are a mid-range Chinese manufacturer, major brands like ABB and Schneider (Square-D) are readily available along with a plethora of "off" brands.

 

We installed ABB RCBO units when we built the house, but assorted add-on circuits have Chint and Chang units as what was available in the store at the time.

[Muhendis]

Agree with @Crossy

There is an abundance of RCBO's out there and I have only ever seen either 30ma or the adjustable, up to 30ma, ones.

There are also plenty of individual circuit RCBO devices which can fit in place of an MCB. Not cheap but a very useful idea.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Muhendis

[Will B Good]

Had these fitted just yesterday.........are these okay....the right thing?

[Crossy]

@OneMoreFarang where are you seeing 100 and 300mA units?

 

They are useful in certain circumstances to provide discrimination but I've not seen them here.

 

[Crossy]

Just now, Will B Good said:

Had these fitted just yesterday.........are these okay....the right thing?

 

Looks good to me ???? 

 

Not a manufacturer I'm aware of but if everything feels solid you're good to go.

 

[Will B Good]

Just now, Crossy said:

 

Looks good to me ???? 

 

Not a manufacturer I'm aware of but if everything feels solid you're good to go.

 

Thanks......I wonder.....would it be a good idea to find an independent qualified electrician to check everything out?......or can you rely on the PEA to do a class job?

[Will B Good]

OneMoreFarang

 

Apologies........Sorry to muscle in........don't like to start a thread just to ask a quick question.

[Muhendis]

4 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

or can you rely on the PEA to do a class job?

Eventually. Yes.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Thanks......I wonder.....would it be a good idea to find an independent qualified electrician to check everything out?......or can you rely on the PEA to do a class job?

 

Post a photo with the lid off (care please). We can gleen a lot of idea about the sparks from simply looking. We've used moonlighting PEA chaps in the past with no issues but you really never know.

 

As to finding a qualified / licenced sparks for domestic ...

 

[sometimewoodworker]

As @Crossy said RCCBs/RCBOs are widely available, every big store and electrical supply shop has them, they have been a required fitting to all new supplies for about a decade possibly more. The most advertised brand is Safe-T-Cut, they are also available as a standalone unit for things like AC units and showers 

[sometimewoodworker]

14 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Thanks......I wonder.....would it be a good idea to find an independent qualified electrician to check everything out?......or can you rely on the PEA to do a class job?

You know, if you were to complete your profile with your location it will help in recommending local assistance.

 

I know an excellent, qualified electrician (this is a rare thing here) in my area. He will work further south in Isann if the job is big enough with his team, locally and north for smaller jobs.

Edited April 8, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

they have been a required fitting to all new supplies for about a decade possibly more.

My house was built 8 years back by a KKN, all MCB.

They also managed to build the house with the incoming live and neutral reversed.

So not required by the PEA in Chiang Mai.

Edited April 8, 2022 by BritManToo

[Will B Good]

12 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You know, if you were to complete your profile with your location it will help in recommending local assistance.

 

I know an excellent, qualified electrician (this is a rare thing here) in my area. He will work further south in Isann if the job is big enough with his team, locally and north for smaller jobs.

Soz......not sure I have ever looked at my profile???.........Nong Bua Daeng.....Chaiyaphum.

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Soz......not sure I have ever looked at my profile???.........Nong Bua Daeng.....Chaiyaphum.

Just look under your profile picture in a computer browser.  If you have filled in the information it will always be there.

.

 

if you haven’t, it won’t.

 

I certainly don’t bother looking up 99.9% of members profiles, but the location given on every post is helpful.

[sometimewoodworker]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My house was built 8 years back by a KKN, all MCB.

They also managed to build the house with the incoming live and neutral reversed.

So not required by the PEA in Chiang Mai.

It was required by the PEA at that time, just your local area didn’t follow the requirements. AFIR it came in in the early teen’s 

[sometimewoodworker]

24 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Soz......not sure I have ever looked at my profile???.........Nong Bua Daeng.....Chaiyaphum.

Reed will work in your area if you can’t find a local real electrician, he does charge for travel time and he is not cheap, but then he actually understands what he is doing and has all the equipment that could be required and more.

 

PM me if needed.

[OneMoreFarang]

55 minutes ago, Crossy said:

@OneMoreFarang where are you seeing 100 and 300mA units?

 

They are useful in certain circumstances to provide discrimination but I've not seen them here.

 

Here are 100mA

RCCBs | RS Components (rs-online.com)

I saw 300mA but I don't remember where.

 

The problem with me is that I learned about these things in Germany, obviously with the German names. I can translate them but it seems often there are other words in use compared what I see in the translation.

 

Now I found a supplier with loads of those things.

อุปกรณ์ไฟฟ้า เบรกเกอร์ แมกเนติก สายไฟ ปลั๊ก สวิทซ์ โคมไฟ หลอดไฟ ท่อร้ายสายไฟ รางเดินสายไฟ ทามเมอร์ รีเลย์ หางปลา อุปกรณ์ประกอบตู้คอนโทรล - Sirichai Electric

 

Thanks

 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:56 AM, Muhendis said:

Eventually. Yes.

Unfortunately I must respectfully disagree with this. You cannot even rely on the PEA to get things right. I'll post something to illustrate. Recently my sister in law asked me to rewire her house, so I obliged. Within minutes of doing some basic checks, I found the following gross errors. The house has a 3-phase supply. The PEA marked the individual cables to discern the three phases and the neutral, which is good. Unfortunately they marked them incorrectly. The only reason this was missed for years and didn't kill anyone was because the house is all hardwood, was wired as TT and had no ground rod. . . See my video. . .

 

 

 

I also noted this abandoned cable. It's the type used by the PEA to connect meters, so this was from the previous single phase meter, now removed. . . why you should always gives power poles a wide berth. . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

So no, you can't rely on the PEA to do things right. Not by a long, long way.

 

About the topic, I will only use Siemens or ABB residual current devices. I have had many Schneider devices fail. I'm interested to see where you're finding 100+ milliamp devices, hopefully with time delay, I need some of these but haven't found any supplier yet.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

About the topic, I will only use Siemens or ABB residual current devices. I have had many Schneider devices fail. I'm interested to see where you're finding 100+ milliamp devices, hopefully with time delay, I need some of these but haven't found any supplier yet.

Here are some 100mA RCCB - but not from ABB or Siemens

RCCBs | RS Components (rs-online.com)

 

I just looked at the ABB supplier from my link above. They have many many devices, all 30mA...

[impulse]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:47 PM, Crossy said:

"Chint" are a mid-range Chinese manufacturer, major brands like ABB and Schneider (Square-D) are readily available along with a plethora of "off" brands.

ChinT is ubiquitous in China.  As you stated, they're not an off brand at all. 

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they're the actual sub-manufacturer for some of the branded labels, too.  Which are generally made in China anyway...  Sometimes on the 4th shift, or the gray market.  Bottom line, I'd buy a ChinT from a reputable store before I'd buy (for example) an ABB  that seems priced too low from a local kiosk.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:47 AM, Crossy said:

RCDs (just earth leakage) and RCBOs (earth leakage with over-current) are readily available in all the big-box DIY places (HomePro, Global, ThaiWatsadu etc. etc.), usually 30mA but 10mA are available.

By now I looked a little more about what is available and what it cost.

I found i.e. this ABB supplied on Lazada and they seems to have "everything"

https://www.lazada.co.th/acb-official-store/

 

I am still confused about RCCBs and RCBOs. In theory I understand what they are doing and the difference. But what I don't understand until now is when to use an RCCB with MCBs and when to use RCBOs. Is there a clear rule or recommendations, etc.? Thanks

 

[bankruatsteve]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But what I don't understand until now is when to use an RCCB with MCBs and when to use RCBOs. Is there a clear rule or recommendations, etc.? Thanks

Not sure about "rules" but generally RCBO is used as the main breaker for whole house (all circuit) RCD protection.  Individual circuits can also use RCBO but I suppose if there is room in the CU, an RCCB could be used along with existing MCB.

[Muhendis]

4 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Not sure about "rules" but generally RCBO is used as the main breaker for whole house (all circuit) RCD protection.  Individual circuits can also use RCBO but I suppose if there is room in the CU, an RCCB could be used along with existing MCB.

New kid on the block is:-

https://shopee.co.th/Abb-RCBO-10A-DSN201-AC-C10-0.03-2CSR255050R1104-i.639623820.11092945035?sp_atk=74712aca-f86c-44e8-a5b0-d04e7a4f6bbf

These are ridiculously expensive but they combine MCB and RCD into the same size as an MCB and would be useful if whole house protection is not required but individual circuits are (as in the case of you still want lighting when it trips) . I don't know if there are any big enough for an electric shower etc.

[bankruatsteve]

5 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

New kid on the block is:-

New?  I have a Schneider box with single pole RCBO for over 12 years and pretty sure available long before that.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

New kid on the block is:-

https://shopee.co.th/Abb-RCBO-10A-DSN201-AC-C10-0.03-2CSR255050R1104-i.639623820.11092945035?sp_atk=74712aca-f86c-44e8-a5b0-d04e7a4f6bbf

These are ridiculously expensive but they combine MCB and RCD into the same size as an MCB and would be useful if whole house protection is not required but individual circuits are (as in the case of you still want lighting when it trips) . I don't know if there are any big enough for an electric shower etc.

 

Some RCBOs

 

40A, N interrupted

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/abb-ds201-c40-ac30-2csr255040r1404-miniature-circuit-breaker-with-overload-protection-rcbo-type-ac-1pn-40a-6ka-30ma-240v-i2956828793-s10840598433.html

 

32A N not interrupted

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/abb-miniature-circuit-breaker-with-overload-protection-rcbo-type-ac-1p-32a-10ka-30ma-240v-dse201mc32ac30-2csr275051r1324-i3072681441-s11274180970.html

 

[86Tiger]

On 4/8/2022 at 5:06 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

 

 

......I know an excellent, qualified electrician (this is a rare thing here) in my area. He will work further south in Isann if the job is big enough with his team, locally and north for smaller jobs......

This is good to know.  We are in Kut Chap.  I will flag this to contact you in future when the time comes.  Thanks!

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

New?  I have a Schneider box with single pole RCBO for over 12 years and pretty sure available long before that.

New to me ☹️

I could have done with some of these (non Schnieder) about five years ago.

[OneMoreFarang]

I spent some time on various websites and YouTube and this is what I learned.

For the record: I helped with electrical installations a long time ago with a professional company but I don't have any certificate and I am not up to date.

Having said that let me know if you know better than the following:

a) having a RCD, RCCB is a lot better than having just a main switch.

b) having one RCCB and a couple of MCBs might work but there is a problem with possible too much leakage 

c) like b but having two RCCBs with each a couple of MCBs is better but depending on the size of the installation there might still be too much leakage 

d) the alternative is using RCBOs instead of MCBs. So i.e. 8 RCBOs instead of 8 MCBs. That is the best protection. It is more expensive but at the end of the day maybe 10k THB wisely spent.

e) See d) with Type A instead of Type AC RCBOs is best.

 

All this, and more, is more or less explained in the following videos. Both together they are almost an hour long. For anybody who likes to know how to do things right I think it's a good investment of your time.

 

 

 

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

Interesting observation.  What do you mean by "too much leakage"?