Animal Tagging

[dsys]

Back in the UK on the old family farm we used tatoo guns and RFID chips to tag animals for internal tracking. When I recenlty suggested aquiring a tatoo gun to tag pigs with a unique number I was "sent to coventry" for a few days.

It was later explained to me ( at least this is my understaning) that by giving the pigs numbers we would be condeming some pigs to failure because they may be given bad numbers. While the good numbers may be given to the wrong pigs and cause them to become ill. Another problem may arrise if we number the pigs on the wrong day, leading to the whole herd.

Fair enough I respect that, now here are the question:

1. Is what I have been told some form of numerology? If so what is it called? (mod is this the correct place for this question)

2. How do you track your animals if you cannot tag them? What other system are in use that I can make use of?

(Sent to coventry - Not talked to / put out in the cold.)

[bina]

thai lucky numbers that are 3 6 9 .....

the same way people play the lottery with hteir numbers, or cell phone numbers or anything else, wedding days, burial days, never an arbitrary choice but for animal tags?!! thats a first ....

[chownah]

get a tagger that does letters only, no numbers.

[bina]

chowna, u 'r lucky thats in thailand; in israel letters are equivalent of numbers !!! hence people chang names after accidents or coming out of comas by using numerology and letters equalling the number of life (18, or any double triple amounts of 18!)... its called 'geometria' and is from the kabala. fortunately, no one cares what ear tag numbers i put on the goats....

i suspect most local farmers dont tag or tatoo due to money and no need (like amphur vet checking numbered animal against record of vaccines or something)...

[slapout]

Have used both ear tatoo and tags for Reg. livestock on the former and to keep track of offspring via the tag method. The latter can use letters to keep bloodline straight, hard to put birth reference without using no. of some kind. If you cant use no. to reference what you want, notch ears or brand them. That suggestion might put you back in coventry. I cannot understand tatoo for livestock raised for slaughter. We worked more on speed when your cutting, vac. worming, branding etc about 5 to 600 head of weaning calves. Pigs wore notched and we hated the sheep so tags were used to show replacement stock, as well as on heifers.

[Cuban]

Find out what are the bad numbers and don't use them. 4s are unlucky etc.

8 are lucky for Chinese, 9s for Thais.

So you might be able to use numbers with a few holes in the series avoiding bad numbers. You may be able to add a simple stencil for good luck for example to extend the range.

If a few Chinese/Thai symbols for luck, wealth, long life (!) is too complex maybe using simple ideas, Batman, Superman, my favorite could be used?

Could you use Western letters? That would give 17,000 or so options with only three digits.

Although three Thai letters (less vowels) would be about 90,000 options, you would be getting to lable a few pigs after a selction of Thai people who might be less pleased.

Could you use different colors? Red is lucky.

With some thought and a little talking to understand the Thai point of view you could have some fun with the task and endear yourself to the Thais by giving the Pigs extra luck, or have the bloodlines indicated by House Of Batman etc.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Cuban

[dsys]

A very strange day (from a western point of view)

After much discussion involving the head man, some monks, a few old people and more family than i knew we had (who are still outside drinking and consuming some of our profit) I have been given two options that appear to be aggreeable to most people.

1. Name the pigs - either Thai or Farang

2. Use numbers for the pigs that one of the elders in the village determines are good (i am sure this will be for a fee)

I cant help feeling that I have just been through a Thai village "hazing".

I think that it may be easier to buy in new genes rather than try and improve the current stock. I just wonder what I will have to go through when I suggest AI!

[Cuban]

Seems everyone has a controlling vote over "your" pigs.

As it is the year of the Pig maybe you should get their horoscopes read as well?

[fruity]

Have seen plastic number tagging here before in cattle & pigs & all tagging eqp is available,however, it is rarely carried out in mainstream. Branding in pedigree cattle is common, but have never come across tatooing of pigs ears (maybe because the ears are considered so delicious? A simple solution to avoid all controvesy would be ear notching. I don't fully understand the reason you need to put on any form of id, unless, you have hundreds of pigs & are performance testing.

[Gary A]

The only type of tagging I see in this area is is a paint brush and red paint. The ones going to market are given a red splash of paint on their backs.

[dsys]

We currently have 500 pigs on a 10 week cycle in the finnishing house. Tagging will be for performace testing. The herd is very variable and we wish to improve the stock before increasing it. I realise that this is quite a small number to be using these techniques but implementing them now will help us when we increase in size.

[tim armstrong]

A very strange day (from a western point of view)

After much discussion involving the head man, some monks, a few old people and more family than i knew we had (who are still outside drinking and consuming some of our profit) I have been given two options that appear to be aggreeable to most people.

1. Name the pigs - either Thai or Farang

2. Use numbers for the pigs that one of the elders in the village determines are good (i am sure this will be for a fee)

I cant help feeling that I have just been through a Thai village "hazing".

I think that it may be easier to buy in new genes rather than try and improve the current stock. I just wonder what I will have to go through when I suggest AI!

Have a BBQ, sacrifice a bit of profit, invite the elders, give them some whisky, and all will be well for about a year. (Maybe name the sacrificed porker after the chief elder - but in English of course)

[torrenova]

Maybe they don't want them tagged so you would not be able to find them if they got "lost" !

[bradda88]

I use colored shapes for our basic tagging needs ie; blue triangle, red square, black circle, etc...) We get by on this with good permanent markers ( they sell some especially for animal tagging ). We breed all our own pigs but we only have about 100 to 150 at any one time.

cheers,

Bradda88

[dsys]

I use colored shapes for our basic tagging needs ie; blue triangle, red square, black circle, etc...) We get by on this with good permanent markers ( they sell some especially for animal tagging ). We breed all our own pigs but we only have about 100 to 150 at any one time.

cheers,

Bradda88

Bradda not a bad idea - where can i get hold of the markers are they genearally available or just in specialist shops?

[bradda88]

The markers are available from advertisements in the Thai farming Magazines( A friend picked up a few in I think Nakon Pratom for me) I am looking to buy more so I will be calling one of the farm equipment companies soon. I've used permanent markers that are for laundry use before and they last a few months as well(Not quite as good as the livestock markers).

Cheers.

[geriatrickid]

The government reportedly supports tagging like RFIDs.

There have been several pilot projects. I heard about one for this year in Chiang Mai to test Advanced ID's RFID system, which means that the livestock department had to overcome similar resistance. You can't export meat products today without an identification and trace back system. (At least this is what they told us at our seminar on food borne illness.) Maybe someone in the livestock department can help.

[bina]

id and trace back????

yeah!!

like when i take goat kids from a local farm and move them to my farm, and the local gov vet comes to do the first vacs, he doesnt check whose kids belong to which does.... he sees lots of kids and lots of does with udders.and gives the shots... while i dont export or sell milk or meat i can imagine that this same gov vet does all the large commercial farms too (cannot give own vacs for public health diseases), and somehow i dont think he really checks....

like anywhere else in the world, when u are in the profession it makes u a skeptic about prupported practices...so if i am in a sort of western country and thailand is proportedly worse in this respect, then the id and trace back system is totally useless or not trustworthy...

[Freddie_fly]

I use colored shapes for our basic tagging needs ie; blue triangle, red square, black circle, etc...) We get by on this with good permanent markers ( they sell some especially for animal tagging ). We breed all our own pigs but we only have about 100 to 150 at any one time.

cheers,

Bradda88

That makes a lot of sense,

When I was working on a farm during college breaks in the Uk we tagged pigs with coloured tags rather than ear notching, My (traditional Yorkshire) farm boss said it was because ears are getting more pricey, However we used nothching for the cows (they didnt like it) and a blue or red dye for the sheep (dont know why). I would suggest that none deformative tagging ( ie no tatts/notches/studs) would be Ok for your herd. But its always good to get the Pu-yai and the local (head) monk's opinion. Asking them will increase your kudos, a polite suggestion to them may be appropriate also.

regards

Freddie