i have like all possible visa options simultaneously, and have to grab ED, please help

[karazopa]

Hello,

I (36 yo, Israeli citizen) & my wife (38 yo, UK citizen) are willing to go to Thai for 1 year. We are living in Portugal for the last 6 years.

 

Atm the primary visa option is ED, but it will cost ~90k THB for us both (fix me if i'm wrong), so i'm willing to sing a better solution.

 

All the statements below are my own investigations and any comments/fixes/suggestions are more than welcome.

 

NON-b visas allow to get only 1 costly visa and the other one can go as a dependent for almost free.

 

1. NON-B investment (paragraph 3.1, the last bullet), requires to show 3M of THB, which i have on my UK bank, but i'm not sure that consulate will accept this (already sent a message to them, but it might take a WHILE)

2. NON-B BOI . Another known as SMART visa is a tricky one. I can not run with SMART-T cos it requires to work on Thai company, which i'm not going to. Investment requires 20M+ which is too much for this case. Smart-E requires a degree, which i do not have, and, i assume, working to Thai company as SMART-T, so anyway i can not go with it. SMART-S requires probably way to much for some formal visa creation (am i wrong?) and it's probably will be more costly than ED visa.

3. STV visa - for 9 months stay i have to buy the insurance, which is laughable in terms of the coverage, but will cost ~30k THB per person (for the coverage 10k EUR and max payment per case 2.5k). It's kinda another form of bribe, cos i'm not willing to go for it even is i'll sick and will have to buy the proper insurance for real protection than this one. Plus, i have no idea how can i evidence, quote "evidence of long-stay accommodation" outside of Thai, because i'm willing to rent it inside the country. The medical certificate is yet another joke, which i do not even know how to fill (and translate), because there is no way that i'll get simply a sign under this. We are completely healthy, but local doctor will require to test for all of diseases in the list to prove it, so it will cost a lot of time and money. 

4. go with stamp and them extend with COVID extensions - the thing is, that how then can i make a 1 year lease contract, which is required for the most offers? Plus, you never know for how long will it be, so idk if it is the best option.

5. shelter company. This is just an example, cos there are a few of them and all of them are the same. They will give you NON-B visa for a fee 500-750 USD/month or even higher. In the comparison with this Thai elite does not look that costly.

6. Thai Elite, which is not my case, because at the moment i'm planning to go to Thai fo a year (or about this duration), so it's over expensive for this purpose.

 

As you can see, i did some homework, and do not know what was forgotten. What are my options?

 

Will be extremely thankful for any thoughts and fixes for the list.

 

[DrJack54]

You can't obtain METV unless your a permanent resident where you currently are.

Next ...just obtain a tourist visa each and extend so 60 + 30.

After that just do what all the other nomads do 

Few border bounce with visa exempt entry and extend each one by 30.

Two per calendar year. Time it right and you can obtain 2 back to back by another 2. 

One year is a walk in the park.

Land borders open by the time you will require them. 

[RedArmy]

Respect to Dr Jack, fantastic advice, as per usual - Putting the original posters mind at ease & covering All basis in one post.

[karazopa]

33 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You can't obtain METV unless your a permanent resident where you currently are.

Next ...just obtain a tourist visa each and extend so 60 + 30.

After that just do what all the other nomads do 

Few border bounce with visa exempt entry and extend each one by 30.

Two per calendar year. Time it right and you can obtain 2 back to back by another 2. 

One year is a walk in the park.

Land borders open by the time you will require them. 

Thank you for the advice.

 

There is a problem with ThaiPass & constant COVID screenings, expose us to the risk of having positive result once (we are vaccinated) and ruin a few weeks of life and test the insurance. I'm not afraid to get sick, but i'm scared to be surrounded with care by the Thai hospital. So it feels that the best option is to avoid border runs until ThaiPass is gone. If you sum up all the expenses, you will see, that even the cheapest border runs with the ThaiPass requirements will overall cost more than just 2 EV visas.

 

 

And this is keeping aside the scheduled trips regardless the desire of it and mentioned earlier COVID risks.

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

10 hours ago, RedArmy said:

- Putting the original posters mind at ease & covering All basis in one post

Think that the "cocktail" to achieve a one year plus stay is mixed.

I sometimes think that your first and maybe even second entry is perhaps best visa exempt via air.

 

For example first entry exempt from own country or wherever is best idea.

Then repeat with a bounce via air. 

My choice would be Saigon.

 

After that for entry via air a tourist visa good idea.

 

Eventually time for the land entries be that TV or exempt.

 

Farang don't harm the country and bring support for Thai business 

Snap just now in Bearing. 

Not one farang in sight.

 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, karazopa said:

 

And this is keeping aside the scheduled trips regardless the desire of it and mentioned earlier COVID risks.

For sure.

I have similar concerns even for quick visit back to home town Oz.

Have 2 trips first being late Aug.

Hope TP gone by then.

 

[Dart12]

13 hours ago, karazopa said:

Thank you for the advice.

 

There is a problem with ThaiPass & constant COVID screenings, expose us to the risk of having positive result once (we are vaccinated) and ruin a few weeks of life and test the insurance. I'm not afraid to get sick, but i'm scared to be surrounded with care by the Thai hospital. So it feels that the best option is to avoid border runs until ThaiPass is gone. If you sum up all the expenses, you will see, that even the cheapest border runs with the ThaiPass requirements will overall cost more than just 2 EV visas.

 

 

And this is keeping aside the scheduled trips regardless the desire of it and mentioned earlier COVID risks.

 

 

 

DrJack54 gave great solutions.

But also, Your concerns are spot on.  I have friends that have had trouble getting back in after trying a standard Run.  But you are coming in as a fresh tourist...so maybe not for you.  However, you did point out is all it takes is one asymptomatic positive test and you are effed for a few weeks and at least a 100k.

plus all the lost time and new expense of each run.

Your ED costs you found are actually a good deal at this current time.

How do I know?  I searched over 40 agents to keep me in the country and settled on one that costed me 40k for 9 months.

Their 1 year is now 55k.   Sounds like you found 45k with no additional fees?

Bonus though with them, is I can live anywhere in the country and they will handle my 90 day visits without me having to travel.  And I can take my classes online (or not at all...but personally I want to).
 

[LivinLOS]

1) the investor visa is for investment in Thailand.. So unless your willing to invest 3 million THB to Thailand this route is not open.

2) you seem to keep mixing in working visas (smart, shelter, non B etc) with tourist visas.. So which is it ?? Do you intend to work while here if so then legally the options reduce. 

 

 

[DJ54]

Is this an re-enactment or was I dreaming.. 

[karazopa]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

1) the investor visa is for investment in Thailand.. So unless your willing to invest 3 million THB to Thailand this route is not open.

2) you seem to keep mixing in working visas (smart, shelter, non B etc) with tourist visas.. So which is it ?? Do you intend to work while here if so then legally the options reduce. 

 

 

1. It's possible to transfer 3M baht to Thai bank, but not desirable. Plus, i can not start with this visa anyway, cos at least i do not have an active Thai bank account.

 

2. I do not care about work permit and I'm not willing to work in Thai. The goal is to get the visa with the least hassle and for minimal money. I'm not interested in learning Thai (or English), so the school is just one of options to just get visa. My question is, what else devent options do i have, which beats the ED visa?

 

 

Pls keep in mind that i'll go with my wife, so for EV disa we'll have to pay for each, while for any NON-B visa one of us will be able do go as a dependent.

 

[karazopa]

8 hours ago, Dart12 said:

DrJack54 gave great solutions.

But also, Your concerns are spot on.  I have friends that have had trouble getting back in after trying a standard Run.  But you are coming in as a fresh tourist...so maybe not for you.  However, you did point out is all it takes is one asymptomatic positive test and you are effed for a few weeks and at least a 100k.

plus all the lost time and new expense of each run.

Your ED costs you found are actually a good deal at this current time.

How do I know?  I searched over 40 agents to keep me in the country and settled on one that costed me 40k for 9 months.

Their 1 year is now 55k.   Sounds like you found 45k with no additional fees?

Bonus though with them, is I can live anywhere in the country and they will handle my 90 day visits without me having to travel.  And I can take my classes online (or not at all...but personally I want to).
 

We are totally on the same page about visa-runs - they are not here yet. Technically they are possible, but it's not the way how the things should be done at least for us.

 

If i go alone, i probably stick with the provided solution and that's it. But since i require 2 visas, fo me and my wife, some NON-B options might work. So i just wanted to ask if there is anything better than ED.

 

[CartagenaWarlock]

It depends on when you want to come. Yes there is TP and other requirements as of now. If you are going to wait for a few months, the situation may change. Education visa for the two for 90-100K is not a bad options as of now. Otherwise, the only other options are visa runs if you are willing to explore neighboring countries also like vietnam, Singapore, Cambodia, etc. With each tourist visa (90-day with extension), you will need at least three exits to cover one year. And it's not going to be cheap for two persons. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by CartagenaWarlock

[karazopa]

17 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

It depends on when you want to come. Yes there is TP and other requirements as of now. If you are going to wait for a few months, the situation may change. Education visa for the two for 90-100K is not a bad options as of now. Otherwise, the only other options are visa runs if you are willing to explore neighboring countries also like vietnam, Singapore, Cambodia, etc. With each tourist visa (90-day with extension), you will need at least three exits to cover one year. And it's not going to be cheap for two persons. 

But isn't it possible to make any sort of business visa? Or maybe there are some helpers with investment visa?

 

Or maybe volunteer or any other hack? 

 

I mean that obvious routes like visa-runs and ED visa are at both expensive. 

 

So the question is about options besides this 2

[CartagenaWarlock]

58 minutes ago, karazopa said:

But isn't it possible to make any sort of business visa? Or maybe there are some helpers with investment visa?

For business visa, you need to deposit the money in a Thai bank and hold on to it for at least six months and the visa is for only three months. After that you need an extension that must be based on some criteria, for example a job. It is good for people who maintain a balance in Thai bank and legitimately engaged in purchases in Thailand to sell in their own countries, like traders. They don't live in Thailand for extended period of time. 

Fake volunteer visas are also not cheap. If you can find genuine volunteer work, it may work. I don't have any idea how to find genuine volunteer work. Most people get fake volunteer work for volunteer visas. Some body can chime in.

[BritTim]

I assume you do not want to work. That being the case, forget Non B visas or investment visas. In Thailand, that ship sailed about 30 years ago for those just wanting a visa to stay.

 

Non Ed can be a great option for those who want to study, but I have the impression that this is not your intention.

 

The main option is short term tourist entries with border runs every two or three months. Yes, right now, ThaiPass is a pain, but is unlikely to still be around a few months from now. I suggest

• Initially arrive with a regular tourist visa (probably single entry). This will give you a 60-day stay, easily extendable for a further 30 days at immigration inside Thailand on payment of 1,900 baht.
• Generally, for the first six months, look for places in the region you can visit as combined sightseeing trips and visa runs. Good examples can be Singapore, Hanoi and Yangon. Each visa run gives you another 90 days (60+30) with the option of returning visa exempt (30+30) if there is a hitch with the visa application.
• After six months as a tourist, you need to be careful about visa runs by air. In particular, if you do not score a visa, and try to return visa exempt (especially, but not only, through the Bangkok airports) you risk a denied entry.
• Twice per calendar year, you can very safely arrive visa exempt by land through most entry points. Keep these as your emergency fullback option until late in your stay or near the end of the calendar year. A good general strategy is to make visa runs to places where you expect to get a visa, but where a land entry will be possible if forced to return visa exempt. There are a couple of land entry points that must be avoided, notably the one from Poi Pet Cambodia to Aranyaprathet in Thailand.

With care, 12-18 months is not too hard as a serial tourist but, for longer than that, the Elite visa becomes a tempting option.

[karazopa]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

I assume you do not want to work. That being the case, forget Non B visas or investment visas. In Thailand, that ship sailed about 30 years ago for those just wanting a visa to stay.

 

Non Ed can be a great option for those who want to study, but I have the impression that this is not your intention.

 

The main option is short term tourist entries with border runs every two or three months. Yes, right now, ThaiPass is a pain, but is unlikely to still be around a few months from now. I suggest

• Initially arrive with a regular tourist visa (probably single entry). This will give you a 60-day stay, easily extendable for a further 30 days at immigration inside Thailand on payment of 1,900 baht.
• Generally, for the first six months, look for places in the region you can visit as combined sightseeing trips and visa runs. Good examples can be Singapore, Hanoi and Yangon. Each visa run gives you another 90 days (60+30) with the option of returning visa exempt (30+30) if there is a hitch with the visa application.
• After six months as a tourist, you need to be careful about visa runs by air. In particular, if you do not score a visa, and try to return visa exempt (especially, but not only, through the Bangkok airports) you risk a denied entry.
• Twice per calendar year, you can very safely arrive visa exempt by land through most entry points. Keep these as your emergency fullback option until late in your stay or near the end of the calendar year. A good general strategy is to make visa runs to places where you expect to get a visa, but where a land entry will be possible if forced to return visa exempt. There are a couple of land entry points that must be avoided, notably the one from Poi Pet Cambodia to Aranyaprathet in Thailand.

With care, 12-18 months is not too hard as a serial tourist but, for longer than that, the Elite visa becomes a tempting option.

Thank you for such a full answer!

 

After all the readings about stealth COVID detection in Thai and all the "care" which i would be surrounded just in case this happen i can not rely on visa runs at least until this policy changes. It's just too risky to be imprisoned for my own expense (with no real guarantee that it will be refunded by insurance). Plus, i'll go with my wife, meaning, and all the inconvenience will be multiplied by 2. Been short - as i see it, visa runs are not here yet.

 

Elite visa assumes the requirement or desire to go to Thai for 5 years, cos the price is quite high, which i can not show at the moment. I have no idea how it will go, but not i'm not ready to make such commitment.

 

This is turning back to NON-B visas, which might have some options, at least as my brief research shows. Willing to dig in this direction and will be very thankful for any suggestions.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, karazopa said:

After all the readings about stealth COVID detection in Thai and all the "care" which i would be surrounded just in case this happen i can not rely on visa runs at least until this policy changes. It's just too risky to be imprisoned for my own expense (with no real guarantee that it will be refunded by insurance). Plus, i'll go with my wife, meaning, and all the inconvenience will be multiplied by 2. Been short - as i see it, visa runs are not here yet.

There is a lot of alarmism over the consequences of a positive Covid-19 test on arrival in Thailand, but the reality is not as bad as is portrayed. Unless you are seriously ill, you will simply be expected to isolate for seven days, using your regular hotel or apartment if you have already rented one. Look at the statistics. Almost all those who are Covid-19 positive are in home or community isolation. The authorities have decided to reserve hospital beds for those who are seriously ill. The policy a year ago was, of course, completely different, and then the consequences of a positive PCR test could be pretty severe.

[karazopa]

39 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is a lot of alarmism over the consequences of a positive Covid-19 test on arrival in Thailand, but the reality is not as bad as is portrayed. Unless you are seriously ill, you will simply be expected to isolate for seven days, using your regular hotel or apartment if you have already rented one. Look at the statistics. Almost all those who are Covid-19 positive are in home or community isolation. The authorities have decided to reserve hospital beds for those who are seriously ill. The policy a year ago was, of course, completely different, and then the consequences of a positive PCR test could be pretty severe.

There is a simple test about it - to see the latest youtube videos of those, who was unlucky to be covid-positive. I agree, that it's not that bad as it was 2 years ago, but as i saw some reports on Jan and Feb, it's still required to drop your rented property in favour of some covid related facilities. Again, it's not the end of the world, but i do not feel right to expose myself to the risk when its avoidable.

 

That's why i'm saying that visa runs are not here yet. It's only from the perspective of my risk tolerance. For others, who are not such a cowards, life is way easier.  

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, karazopa said:

There is a simple test about it - to see the latest youtube videos of those, who was unlucky to be covid-positive. I agree, that it's not that bad as it was 2 years ago, but as i saw some reports on Jan and Feb, it's still required to drop your rented property in favour of some covid related facilities. Again, it's not the end of the world, but i do not feel right to expose myself to the risk when its avoidable.

Historical videos are not reflective of what has been happening in recent weeks. Home isolation is now the norm, and would be preferred unless you were seriously ill, or unable to avoid contact with others outside your family if you stayed at home.

 

As of Tuesday, there were 191,743 people receiving treatment for Covid-19, of whom less than 50,000 were in hospitals. Many Thais and guest workers are in accommodation where home isolation is not practical, but this is rarely true for Westerners.

[karazopa]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Historical videos are not reflective of what has been happening in recent weeks. Home isolation is now the norm, and would be preferred unless you were seriously ill, or unable to avoid contact with others outside your family if you stayed at home.

 

As of Tuesday, there were 191,743 people receiving treatment for Covid-19, of whom less than 50,000 were in hospitals. Many Thais and guest workers are in accommodation where home isolation is not practical, but this is rarely true for Westerners.

This are a great news and I'm happy to hear that this restrictions are finally really going down. Will be happy to get confirmations (nowadays all the info have to be double checked) and review my opinion about visa runs. 

 

Anyway, the requirement to do PCR tests on entering the country makes it far from comfortable.

[ThLT]

3 hours ago, karazopa said:

This is turning back to NON-B visas, which might have some options, at least as my brief research shows. Willing to dig in this direction and will be very thankful for any suggestions.

Non-Immigrant B visa is a work visa. You need to find a job, from an employer who will be supporting and paying for your visa and also work permit, which is expensive for them. Then you actually need to work. If you don't work, you lose the visa. 

 

Non-Immigrant ED visa, like the B visa, you actually need to study, I think 3-4 hours per week. The other Non-Immigrant B visas categories I'm not familiar with, but like BritTim said, you need to have had 3 million THB in a Thai bank for 6 months before getting the visa, and there is probably a whole bunch of other requirements. Opening a company is also extremely difficult and costly.

[ThLT]

21 minutes ago, karazopa said:

Anyway, the requirement to do PCR tests on entering the country makes it far from comfortable.

They are maybe announcing tomorrow that the PCR test on arrival will be scrapped.

 

Even if it's not, it's a test and 1 night at a hotel. If you can't handle this much costs/challenge, Thailand as a whole is 10x more difficult than a simple PCR test requirement.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by ThLT

[ThLT]

@karazopa If you want to stay in Thailand 1 year or more, and you aren't either studying or working, paid a ton of cash for a business that might fail, or working on a farm 5 hours per day without getting paid the whole year... there are only a few viable options:

 

- Retirement visa (50 years old or more)

- Marriage visa

- Elite visa

 

If not, there are only a few other options:
 

- METV, Multi-entry tourist visa, obtained from your home country (9 months total)

- SETV, Single-entry tourist visa, (3 months total)

- Visa-exemption stamp (2x per calendar year, 2 months total for each)

 

You can combine them. Eventually, you won't be able to get a SETV, or will run out of VE stamps, or will be denied at an airport for having too many of the above, and not really being a tourist.

You can't live in Thailand for 1-6 years in a row as a tourist like in Portugal.

 

Even living 1 year in Thailand as a tourist, you will have to do visa/border runs at least every 2 or 3 months.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by ThLT

[ThLT]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:53 PM, karazopa said:

Atm the primary visa option is ED, but it will cost ~90k THB for us both (fix me if i'm wrong), so i'm willing to sing a better solution.

It will cost you around 30-35K each. For group lessons. So around 60-70K total. If you add the cost of the visa and extension, that's another ฿7600 each/฿15,200. So around 86K total. An option would be to get a SETV visa, and then a VE stamp, and then study only 6 months. Would cost half the above.

 

However, you actually have to study and attend classes for 7 hours every week (plus culture classes, I think). If you miss too many classes, your visa will be cancelled.

Edited April 20, 2022 by ThLT

[karazopa]

23 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Non-Immigrant B visa is a work visa. You need to find a job, from an employer who will be supporting and paying for your visa and also work permit, which is expensive for them. Then you actually need to work. If you don't work, you lose the visa. 

 

Non-Immigrant ED visa, like the B visa, you actually need to study, I think 3-4 hours per week. The other Non-Immigrant B visas categories I'm not familiar with, but like BritTim said, you need to have had 3 million THB in a Thai bank for 6 months before getting the visa, and there is probably a whole bunch of other requirements. Opening a company is also extremely difficult and costly.

Following this my

 

only option is to go to another country.

 

Please, get me right. I love rules, it makes live simpler. But Thai is not about them, is more about know-how.

I lived in the past on NON-ED visa in Thai for a couple of years, and, following the latest chats, not much changed. The same corruption scheme.

 

Going back to Non-B visas- as you mentioned, option with 3M baht does not require to work. Also, as i got, there might be NON-B visa without work permit (and work permit != NON-B visa), when you do not have the right to work.

 

27 minutes ago, ThLT said:

They are maybe announcing tomorrow that the PCR test on arrival will be scrapped.

 

Even if it's not, it's a test and 1 night at a hotel. If you can't handle this much costs/challenge, Thailand as a whole is 10x more difficult than a simple PCR test requirement.

 

As was previously said in the post, the main problem are consequences of the positive test and i do not want to bear an extra risks of it.

 

Reading the second post of yours i just more getting in the idea that you are not welcome me in Thai for some reason.

 

 

 

Talking more about ED visa - there are options, where you just pay for the visa and that's it. no lessons, no hassle. ofc it's more expensive than visa runs, but it's more convenient. so, there is, at least an option to make this with the cost of 90k fo 2.

So, from the beginning i know how to make this for this about of money, but want to find cheaper options, cos i do not believe that this price for my necessities is optimal. 

 

This is why this topic was created. If you do not have the idea how to make it, then why are you here? 

 

[Onerak]

32 minutes ago, karazopa said:

Talking more about ED visa - there are options, where you just pay for the visa and that's it. no lessons, no hassle. ofc it's more expensive than visa runs, but it's more convenient. so, there is, at least an option to make this with the cost of 90k fo 2.

So, from the beginning i know how to make this for this about of money, but want to find cheaper options, cos i do not believe that this price for my necessities is optimal. 

I have lived in Thailand for extended period using Ed-visa and visa runs and then using O-A (retirement) and extension. Yes, Thailand is corrupt and it is easy to bribe your way for most situations. Ed-visa for one year without attending classes is possible and as you have already priced it. As I mentioned already the initial business visa is for 3-month only and when you go for extension you need a valid reason (and R&R is not a reason for business visa). As soon as you exit and try to enter Thailand with another business visa, you will be under the same restrictions as visa runs (that is PCR test as of now). PCR test is a pain in the neck but less than 0.5% people get caught in that. And also you don't want to run around with positive covid. You need to isolate in a hotel or your residence. In this age of Covid, free roaming between borders has become difficult.

Let's say you come here with a TV for at least three months, you don't have to worry about that unless you test positive in your first arrival. . After three months nobody knows what the situation will be.  If they scrap covid tests, you're lucky. If not you take the risk of a visa run. I'm little apprehensive if they will scrap the tests altogether or not (they are talking about ATK test that bears the same risk). 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Onerak

[BritTim]

If you take my advice, you will forget about Non B/investment visas as a way to be a long term tourist. However, if you are already a business owner abroad, and can use a clever (shady) legal firm to help, you might be able to get approval for a Thai representative office which would enable you to get a Non B visa as the country manager. A regular, top legal firm will not succeed here. If you try to establish a regular Thai company, this is not horrendously expensive for basic company establishment, but you will only have 49% ownership, and there are other expensive prerequisites before you can use the company to get a long term visa.