water purification options

[sometimewoodworker]

The point is that the treatment system, be it a kettle or multi sage system should match the contamination to be removed, generally at as low a cost as is reasonable.

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Then show me how the cost of RO or activated carbon compares with a 500 baht kettle from Lazada,

A kettle does not remove the dirt and heavy metals or provide the taste that RO gives - there is a reason people buy water - and most of the water they buy is RO treated.  I was boiling water in India 50 years ago and then filtering - but times have changed - and I am very glad they have.  As for the costs - that 500 baht in not the final cost - fire/time/cleaning/storage all have to be factored in as well as the taste (which you may like but I found less than good by itself or as base for anything else - boiled water is not my cup of tea).  

[Lacessit]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The point is that you did say 

 

Filtration, as has been pointed out, in fact does remove virtually every contaminant. The fact that the Filtration gets more and more expensive as you get les and less stuff in the water doesn’t make it less Filtration. RO is filtration multi stage is still Filtration.

 

if you intended Filtration to be limited you should have said so, but you didn’t 

It is absolute rubbish to state:

 

"Filtration, as has been pointed out, in fact does remove virtually every contaminant."

 

It depends on what kind of filter it is. Activated carbon will remove organics, it does diddly squat in terms of removing soluble ions such as fluoride. RO does a good job on most soluble ions, organics foul it up pretty quickly. If one really wants to get rid of all ionic species, ion exchange columns are the ticket.

 

For your statement to be true, you would need a grand combination of basic filter, activated carbon, reverse osmosis and a final polish of ion exchange to get rid of everything, but you didn't say that either.

 

[Lacessit]

35 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

A kettle does not remove the dirt and heavy metals or provide the taste that RO gives - there is a reason people buy water - and most of the water they buy is RO treated.  I was boiling water in India 50 years ago and then filtering - but times have changed - and I am very glad they have.  As for the costs - that 500 baht in not the final cost - fire/time/cleaning/storage all have to be factored in as well as the taste (which you may like but I found less than good by itself or as base for anything else - boiled water is not my cup of tea).  

I would agree if we are talking about bore water, which has not been treated to the health standards applied by water authorities in almost every country.

That was India, this is now.

 

BTW, when you buy RO treated water, you are not buying it for its taste, but for the absence of taste.

 

Water treatment usually consists of sand bed filtration to remove solids, followed by flocculation with either aluminium chloride or ferric chloride, and lime or magnesium oxide. That process knocks out virtually all heavy metals present. Polyelectrolyte is added to polish the floc, the final stage of treatment is the addition of chlorine and chloramines to kill off any bacteria or viruses that have survived the journey. That's what comes out of a domestic tap.

 

I don't like the taste of chlorine, which is why I boil tap water. Perhaps your palate is more refined than mine, but I can't pick the difference between boiled water here, and RO water.

 

The US derives nearly all its water for cities from groundwater and recycling. It's no accident giardia is rife there, 1 million cases a year. Personally, I found the taste of US water disgusting, but that may have been a psychological inhibition stemming from the knowledge I was tasting someone else's recycled pee and poo.

 

Yes, I do pay for the electricity to boil the water. That's picking nits.

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

For your statement to be true, you would need a grand combination of basic filter, activated carbon, reverse osmosis and a final polish of ion exchange to get rid of everything, but you didn't say that either.

 

It is still filtration and yes I did say it’s filtration, you are the one trying to put a limit on filtration. You did not limit it therefore the above qualifies as filtration and as I said that will eliminate a lot of nasty stuff.

 

to be clear you are missing the word filter so

chunchy bits filter 

activated carbon filter

reverse osmosis filter

ion exchange filter

 

 

= multistage filter QED

 

though there could be a few more .

[Lacessit]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

It is still filtration and yes I did say it’s filtration, you are the one trying to put a limit on filtration. You did not limit it therefore the above qualifies as filtration and as I said that will eliminate a lot of nasty stuff.

 

to be clear you are missing the word filter so

chunchy bits filter 

activated carbon filter

reverse osmosis filter

ion exchange filter

 

 

= multistage filter QED

Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a capital cost of this combination, as well as the ongoing maintenance cost.

Also read my post on water treatment processes for the production of drinking water.

Are you getting commissions to promote all these unnecessary treatments?

 

 

[lopburi3]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

BTW, when you buy RO treated water, you are not buying it for its taste, but for the absence of taste.

Agree - so coffee tastes like it should for me.  But not having a bad taste is as important as having no taste.  Boiled water always seemed to have a bad taste for me.

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Agree - so coffee tastes like it should for me.  But not having a bad taste is as important as having no taste.  Boiled water always seemed to have a bad taste for me.

As I said before, perhaps your palate is more refined than mine.

As I like a ploughman's sandwich of sharp cheese, rosemary ham and hot English mustard, washed down with a beer, it's more than likely.

[lopburi3]

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

As I said before, perhaps your palate is more refined than mine.

As I like a ploughman's sandwich of sharp cheese, rosemary ham and hot English mustard, washed down with a beer, it's more than likely.

Don't believe palate is refined but Cheddar is strong for me, Itohham ham sandwich good, no mustard of any kind and not enjoyed the beer since Bending when living in FFM in the late 60's.  Getting old.

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Don't believe palate is refined but Cheddar is strong for me, Itohham ham sandwich good, no mustard of any kind and not enjoyed the beer since Bending when living in FFM in the late 60's.  Getting old.

Welcome to my world. Gave up beer recently going on to a low carb diet, stuff is packed with carbs. Oddly enough, whisky is OK.

Sorry, getting off topic.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a capital cost of this combination, as well as the ongoing maintenance cost.

Also read my post on water treatment processes for the production of drinking water.

Are you getting commissions to promote all these unnecessary treatments?

 

 

Did you actually read this thread? Do look at the top post on page 2. It is currently at the top of this page.

[Adumbration]

I built my own.  Those 10inch three stage jobs are no good because they use flimsy 6mm connectors.

 

I sourced and bought on shopee 3 10 inch filter containser that have silicone orings and pet outer housings.  They also have 1/2 inch brass screw connections that will take standard half inch pvc water pipe fittings.

 

I have the 3 stages set up as follows:

 

1. Solid ceramic.  About 110 baht.  Filters out all PM and also any cysts like cryptosporidium (spelling), giardia and the like.

2. Block Carbon. About 60 baht.

3. GAC Activated carbon. About 80 baht.

 

Solid ceramic cartridge has indefinite life span as can be scrubbed clean is scotch pad.  Block Carbon and GAC filters good for about 6-8 months.  Just two people.

 

I filter the town water supply and it is perfectly palatable when done.

 

I also bought a cheap chlorine detection kit to initially test filtered water and all is ok.

 

I also ditched the white plastic 20l bottles and bough several of the 18l blue PET ones.

 

Saving a fortune but also the biggest thing is not having to lug the white plastic bottles.

 

I am currently renovating out kitchen.  Once the new bench goes in I will mount the filter under the bench and then fill directly from a tap (and ditch the PET bottles also).

[kekalot]

14 hours ago, Adumbration said:

I built my own.  Those 10inch three stage jobs are no good because they use flimsy 6mm connectors.

 

if it's not too much to ask I'd love to see it and get some links (if you have them)

 

I was thinking of doing the same thing and maybe put that spinner thing just in front, especially after I noticed that some of those filter kits seemed to have their own pump/tank and needed to be plugged in (there's no plug anywhere near my sink)

 

I don't worry about how jank it looks, i just want it to work and not cost me 1500 baht per 2 months for single filters.

[thaibook]

On 4/20/2022 at 12:39 PM, lopburi3 said:

Multi stage RO filter systems are very cheap and work very well - you have several gallons in storage tank - it may not look the best but it does the job.  First filter removes dirt and can be changed as needed (cheap) - can be had for about 3k-4k on Lazada or Shopee (although you can spend many times that for same item from some sellers so be careful).

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/colandas-ro-5-50-gpd-00001-water-filter-1-i2319029740-s13942552018.html?search=1&freeshipping=1

Thank you.  I have just ordered such a system.

 

[BeastOfBodmin]

Moved here permanently in April 2024. Drinking and cooking water was provided by those large water cooler bottles for I believe THB 10 each. At the far end of the garden we have a deep well that pumps up to 2 x 2000L bottles on a 9m tower. Brushed teeth using well water. For some reason the auto-fill function was not in use, needing a twice daily walk to the water tower to press the Big Red Button to start the pump to fill the bottles, and another trip to turn off the button. Despite Thais' fear of things electric, my family were surprisingly relaxed about standing in a waterfall of water raining down from the overflowing bottles so as to be able to press the BRB again.

 

Drinking water was transferred to reused water bottles/ pop bottles and stored in the fridge. Well water is very hard. Every couple of months the bum guns and shower heads needed to be cleaned in vinegar or citric acid solution. Everything was quickly coated in scale and soap scum: taps, porcelain sinks, toilet bowls, glass shower screens. Every time we made changes to the blue piping, it seemed to cause a pulse of extra scale to get into the house, sometimes including bits of vegetation (due to some other decision taken without my knowledge to not put the tops on the 2000L water bottles on the top of the water tower) that would clog up spray heads with stuff impervious to vinegar and citric acid. Goodness knows what was happening inside the shower heater elements.

 

Painting the bridge: Initial solutions were to replace the cheap(est money can buy) plastic, sealed bum guns with some brushed steel ones, from Thaiwatsadu, which can be dismantled and clean. Kept two spares fully cleaned and serviced so that I could do a phased maintenance cycle over the course of a week. De-calcing floor and wall tiles, glass, sink & toilet bowls and metal tap fittings was a lot of work.

 

Installing an inline pump to improve the pressure from our 9m well was getting closer to the top of the list of home improvements. When its time came I insisted we incorporate a water filter system as part of the same job, suspecting that if it wasn't done now, the way the inline pump job was done might make it more difficult/ expensive to retrofit a water system later. My wife grumbled a bit but to her credit she found a small business that would install a system in the next week or so. There were some teething problems, but in the end I am happy with the result. The equipment was installed in a small outhouse built for that purpose. We re-enabled the autofill at the well head. I think it goes something like this: Water is pumped from the bottles at the tower to a holding tank in the outhouse. Something is injected to deal with some/ all of the water hardness. This water is pumped through a two-stage RO system into another bottle that now contains clean, soft, potable water. The inline pump does its job of supplying the house.

 

First time in ~40 years I have had soft water from the taps wherever I was living. We can drink the water from the taps (though we still offer guests unopened commercial bottled water). We still fill those 750ml plastic bottles and store them in the fridge. We don't have to do the water cooler bottle run any more. No scale in the water at all. Lather for shaving is foamy and my razor rinses clean. We use less soap for laundry, dishes and body. Our shower heating elements will last longer. The bum guns, chrome and porcelain have remained clean for months now.

 

I expect the payback time of this system versus the THB 10 water cooler bottles is a decade or two ;), but I think it was worth it.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, BeastOfBodmin said:

Moved here permanently in April 2024. Drinking and cooking water was provided by those large water cooler bottles for I believe THB 10 each. At the far end of the garden we have a deep well that pumps up to 2 x 2000L bottles on a 9m tower. Brushed teeth using well water. For some reason the auto-fill function was not in use, needing a twice daily walk to the water tower to press the Big Red Button to start the pump to fill the bottles, and another trip to turn off the button. Despite Thais' fear of things electric, my family were surprisingly relaxed about standing in a waterfall of water raining down from the overflowing bottles so as to be able to press the BRB again.

 

Drinking water was transferred to reused water bottles/ pop bottles and stored in the fridge. Well water is very hard. Every couple of months the bum guns and shower heads needed to be cleaned in vinegar or citric acid solution. Everything was quickly coated in scale and soap scum: taps, porcelain sinks, toilet bowls, glass shower screens. Every time we made changes to the blue piping, it seemed to cause a pulse of extra scale to get into the house, sometimes including bits of vegetation (due to some other decision taken without my knowledge to not put the tops on the 2000L water bottles on the top of the water tower) that would clog up spray heads with stuff impervious to vinegar and citric acid. Goodness knows what was happening inside the shower heater elements.

 

Painting the bridge: Initial solutions were to replace the cheap(est money can buy) plastic, sealed bum guns with some brushed steel ones, from Thaiwatsadu, which can be dismantled and clean. Kept two spares fully cleaned and serviced so that I could do a phased maintenance cycle over the course of a week. De-calcing floor and wall tiles, glass, sink & toilet bowls and metal tap fittings was a lot of work.

 

Installing an inline pump to improve the pressure from our 9m well was getting closer to the top of the list of home improvements. When its time came I insisted we incorporate a water filter system as part of the same job, suspecting that if it wasn't done now, the way the inline pump job was done might make it more difficult/ expensive to retrofit a water system later. My wife grumbled a bit but to her credit she found a small business that would install a system in the next week or so. There were some teething problems, but in the end I am happy with the result. The equipment was installed in a small outhouse built for that purpose. We re-enabled the autofill at the well head. I think it goes something like this: Water is pumped from the bottles at the tower to a holding tank in the outhouse. Something is injected to deal with some/ all of the water hardness. This water is pumped through a two-stage RO system into another bottle that now contains clean, soft, potable water. The inline pump does its job of supplying the house.

 

First time in ~40 years I have had soft water from the taps wherever I was living. We can drink the water from the taps (though we still offer guests unopened commercial bottled water). We still fill those 750ml plastic bottles and store them in the fridge. We don't have to do the water cooler bottle run any more. No scale in the water at all. Lather for shaving is foamy and my razor rinses clean. We use less soap for laundry, dishes and body. Our shower heating elements will last longer. The bum guns, chrome and porcelain have remained clean for months now.

 

I expect the payback time of this system versus the THB 10 water cooler bottles is a decade or two ;), but I think it was worth it.

AFAIK there are two ways to improve water hardness. The first is a water softener, a solid which exchanges sodium ions for calcium and magnesium ions.

The second are complexants such as ethylene diamine tetra acetic acid ( EDTA ) or nitriloacetic acid. They tie up the calcium so it won't precipitate out of solution. I suspect that is what your solution is.

 

The RO system will remove 98-99% of the EDTA. However, you should be aware EDTA can cause kidney damage, depending on the dose.