ASEAN seeks US support for peace efforts in Ukraine

[SunsetT]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

every country wants to see the domestic and regional atmosphere as peaceful as possible and conducive to cooperation, more than confrontation.

Myanmar?

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

This invasion didn't happen at random, there's a history to it and the US is at the center. Go read Putin's "Empire of Lies" speech and he explains. 

Propaganda. Ukraine's animosity toward Russia extends back through the ages, to the Holomador and beyond.

[Denim]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

 an ASEAN effort to maintain peace and stability,

Diplomatic flatulence   at best.

 

If Putin is turning a deaf ear to European leaders , then the advice or wishes of ASEAN will be unheard.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

My understanding is that it's not about Ukraine as much as NATO and the current REGIME in Ukraine.  If the US wants this to end they just need to negotiate a withdrawal but that's never going to happen as they appear to be determined to crush Russia for reason I don't fully understand but there's a long history there also.

 

Read Putin's speech on the matter.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-transcript-vladimir-putin-s-televised-address-to-russia-on-ukraine-feb-24

Ukraine has already said they will negotiate peace if Russia pulls its troops back to pre-invasion positions. This is quite a compromise because it presumably allows Russia to keep Crimea and the Donbas.

[Onerak]

10 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

Their pathetic fence - sitting “ neutrality” like India & UAE & Hungary,

India will not kowtow American or European positions. It will only act on its own interest. It knows that as much India needs American and European investment, America and Europe also needs to access huge India's middle class and its highly educated and technologically talented workforce to sustain themselves. That is the reason, in spite of India's stand on Putin, no western power can dictate any terms to India. ASEAN countries are tiny  but together they can still provide a united opposition to USA/Europe's hegemony in terms of ASEAN's relationship to Russia. India has already shown how to do it. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Onerak

[billd766]

30 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

My understanding is that it's not about Ukraine as much as NATO and the current REGIME in Ukraine.  If the US wants this to end they just need to negotiate a withdrawal but that's never going to happen as they appear to be determined to crush Russia for reason I don't fully understand but there's a long history there also.

 

Read Putin's speech on the matter.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-transcript-vladimir-putin-s-televised-address-to-russia-on-ukraine-feb-24

Now why would I need to read Putin's speech. It is not as if it were the truth and all news were not censored in Russia. Isn't Russia one of those countries where if you disagree with the government you get slung in jail, even if you call their "special mission" in the Ukraine a war, which is what it is really.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

This invasion didn't happen at random, there's a history to it and the US is at the center. Go read Putin's "Empire of Lies" speech and he explains. 

I haven't read the Putin's speech, but the Chinese summarised it perfectly:

 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1255314.shtml

 

If Russia have joined NATO after the cold war there would be a competitor to sell weapons, and also the European part of NATO would be too big and powerful militarily. Not allowed to happen.

 

EU is getting poorer and less competitive by the hour, watch the centrifugal forces and the far right or left getting further ground there.

[Lancelot01]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

ASEAN is a highly effective talking shop.

 

Sadly that is just about all they do

A bit like the Judiah National Front?

[TropicalGuy]

22 hours ago, itsari said:

I suggest ASIAN concentrate on a subject closer to home such as the Myanmar takeover .

Or rice market, alleviating Poverty Corruption Bad Education…. Oh, wait

[TropicalGuy]

8 hours ago, Lancelot01 said:

A bit like the Judiah National Front?

What did the West ever do for us ?

Well, (reels off top one hundred modern inventions adopted here)…

yeah but APART from all that, what …….. !????????????????????

[TropicalGuy]

11 hours ago, Onerak said:

India will not kowtow American or European positions. It will only act on its own interest. It knows that as much India needs American and European investment, America and Europe also needs to access huge India's middle class and its highly educated and technologically talented workforce to sustain themselves. That is the reason, in spite of India's stand on Putin, no western power can dictate any terms to India. ASEAN countries are tiny  but together they can still provide a united opposition to USA/Europe's hegemony in terms of ASEAN's relationship to Russia. India has already shown how to do it. 

India’s support-by- neutrality of Putin is embarrassing for them and well noted for future action.
 

Europe does need dirthole India in any way whatsoever. Not even  a useful ally against Enemy China Iran Pakistan. India even neutral re. CCP China.

On second thought forget India; they can eat their cheap rubbish Russian weapons & oil and take care of themselves. Civilized Nations will handle China and Iran … India later.

[TropicalGuy]

11 hours ago, gearbox said:

I haven't read the Putin's speech, but the Chinese summarised it perfectly:

 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1255314.shtml

 

If Russia have joined NATO after the cold war there would be a competitor to sell weapons, and also the European part of NATO would be too big and powerful militarily. Not allowed to happen.

 

EU is getting poorer and less competitive by the hour, watch the centrifugal forces and the far right or left getting further ground there.

Russia just another third world gangster country with nukes. Their weapons are outdated junk built with western parts. Can never join NATO as Unfree Enemy under Gangster Tyranny.

[relax33]

11 hours ago, gearbox said:

If Russia have joined NATO after the cold war there would be a competitor to sell weapons, and also the European part of NATO would be too big and powerful militarily. Not allowed to happen.

 

The real reason is that NATO is a defensive organization that is formed to defend against a common enemy called the USSR so technically, it should not need to exist once the USSR is dissolved n Russia joins NATO ..
The US uses NATO to exert control over Europe so of cos will like NATO to exist, that's why it pressured NATO to refuse Russian admission.
Having no common enemy also means there will be no need for Europe to spend money on Arms (especially expensive US ones)  but the ability to exert control over Europe is what is most important to the US..

Historically  Russia should be part of Europe n Europe should be allowed to tread its own path n be a major player on the world stage in its own right ; which was the reason for the formation of the EU in the first place.
Angela Merkel n Macron both share this vision to make Europe Great
Unfortunately Merkel has retired n Olaf Scholz has suddenly been acting like a proxy of the US  like as if he was bought   ..

Hopefully, Europe will quickly re-discover its mojo n realize (or it's voters will let it know) that acting as an instrument of Biden's foreign policy will not be in its own interests.

Biden needs the war to arrest his dipping approval ratings  ..
He will still not do well with it's continuation due to the rampant inflation created by the Ukrainian war, the trade war with China (the tariffs Trump imposed are being dismantled now as they have only served to inflate consumer prices with the main beneficiary being the US govt) .. n China production clampdown due to covid .. but will do far worse without the war.

The disadvantage of the present strategy is that it will push Russia towards China n quickly strengthen the latter's military knowhow ..

[relax33]

12 hours ago, Onerak said:

India will not kowtow American or European positions. It will only act on its own interest. It knows that as much India needs American and European investment, America and Europe also needs to access huge India's middle class and its highly educated and technologically talented workforce to sustain themselves. That is the reason, in spite of India's stand on Putin, no western power can dictate any terms to India. ASEAN countries are tiny  but together they can still provide a united opposition to USA/Europe's hegemony in terms of ASEAN's relationship to Russia. India has already shown how to do it. 

That's where you see a clear illustration of what is called "double standards' here
China is often warned n threatened by the US n the West that there will be sanctions n repercussions if it ever buys Russian goods while India can openly do so n even divulge the prices n quantities that it is procuring without the slightest provocation ..
Perhaps what China n the rest of the world could do is to pay a 3% commission to let india  be the "Shopify platform" to procure things on their behalf ... ha
India rebuked the Western politicians  by saying it is only doing what the West had always done in the past; which is to act in it's own interests ..
 

[relax33]

19 hours ago, natway09 said:

ASEAN, the toothless tiger goes on about Ukraine & wanting peace.

What about doing something constructive about Myanmar where people

are being persecuted within your own alliance & doing absolutely nothing

The US should be the ones sending troops over if they are so keen to be  guardians of human rights n morality.
The ASEAN charter has a non-interference clause inserted into it so it's like asking the US to strike off the 4th amendment to get them to interfere ...

[relax33]

9 hours ago, Lancelot01 said:

ASEAN is a highly effective talking shop.

 

Sadly that is just about all they do

The US n Europe are talk shops too as they are not doing any physical fighting ..
Ironically, Zelensky is the greatest talk shop around as he spends all his time acting like some Youtube star doing podcast n webcast in his expensively furnished hollywood style studio n mansion that is being built with US money while his countrymen are dying every second ...

[relax33]

This is a pre-amble that the ASEAN leaders are politely making to make the US know of their stand before hand cos Biden is forcing them to go to a so called ASEAN summit in Washington n they are tired of hearing the same blah blah from him pressurizing them to be non-aligned ..

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, relax33 said:

The US n Europe are talk shops too as they are not doing any physical fighting ..
Ironically, Zelensky is the greatest talk shop around as he spends all his time acting like some Youtube star doing podcast n webcast in his expensively furnished hollywood style studio n mansion that is being built with US money while his countrymen are dying every second ...

US or NATO direct troops involvement will mean WW3. Zelensky is living in a secret bunker and so too is his family for fear of Russian assassination. We know but not you. Trolling much. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, relax33 said:

This is a pre-amble that the ASEAN leaders are politely making to make the US know of their stand before hand cos Biden is forcing them to go to a so called ASEAN summit in Washington n they are tired of hearing the same blah blah from him pressurizing them to be non-aligned ..

Foreign policies to reinforce US enduring commitment to this region is the hallmark of previous presidents except Trump. Asean leaders too will look forward to US commitment to strike a balance between both superpowers. You must be living in a different world to think sovereign countries can be forced and pressured to attend a summit. 
 

[John Drake]

14 hours ago, Onerak said:

America and Europe also needs to access huge India's middle class and its highly educated and technologically talented workforce to sustain themselves.

They're not needed at all. In fact, what India is trying to do is colonize the US. Greedy billionaires and companies (Disney) outsource jobs that were being done effectively by Americans to Indian companies that then import Indian workers. People like the Disney workers are forced to train their replacements, then, if they want a severance package. And, of course, don't forget the wonderful job Indian employees have done at Boeing in recent years. Fly and die? Who cares, as long as they work cheap. Indians should be shipped home. Their employment is unnecessary.

[Onerak]

8 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

On second thought forget India; they can eat their cheap rubbish Russian weapons & oil and take care of themselves. Civilized Nations will handle China and Iran … India later.

Nothing will happen. YOu can bet on that. European and American market cannot survive without access to India's middle class population and their talented educated workforce. Forbes predict by 2030, 50% of American CEOs will be first generation American-Indian. They are first generation means they have not cut off their relationship with India yet and they never let any harm happen to India's progress. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Onerak

[billd766]

21 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

The US regime is overtly anti-Russian and now essentially fighting a proxy war against Russia. If this boils over in to a full blown war it will be their fault as much as anyone. Best thing for world peace is for the US to go back home and leave Russia and Ukraine to resolve their disputes.

So you think the best thing is to do nothing and let Russia take over a peaceful democratic nation.

 

And if Russia attacks another free democratic nation the world should turn its back the way you want the West to do?

 

So where will you draw the red line?

 

Poland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden. Finland, Latvia, the English channel, UK, France , Spain, Portugal, Italy, the Baltics. Where?

 

YOU can draw the red line and tell us all how wrong we are, and that the Russians have the right to invade anywhere they want to, at any time that they want.

 

 

20 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

My understanding is that it's not about Ukraine as much as NATO and the current REGIME in Ukraine.  If the US wants this to end they just need to negotiate a withdrawal but that's never going to happen as they appear to be determined to crush Russia for reason I don't fully understand but there's a long history there also.

 

Read Putin's speech on the matter.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-transcript-vladimir-putin-s-televised-address-to-russia-on-ukraine-feb-24

Any good spin doctor can make any speech but there is NO free speech in Russia and it was done for internal consumption only. He like many other dictators are in it for the face.

 

For me personally the only truth that I believe from Putin's mouth is when he says his name.

[relax33]

8 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

US or NATO direct troops involvement will mean WW3. Zelensky is living in a secret bunker

Correct but it's a super glam mansion of a bunker..
You should see videos of the reception he is giving to European leaders who visit the place ...
A real leader should be leading the troops as it's war time now, not hiding in the comforts of the bunker to write policy speeches ...
In the free world  , that is something called freedom of speech. 
I would certainly not call anyone a Troll as it looks pretty uneducated .
Feel free to express your views but use facts to back them up n never allow yourself to regress by getting emotional or personal ... hoho

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

So you think the best thing is to do nothing and let Russia take over a peaceful democratic nation.

 

And if Russia attacks another free democratic nation the world should turn its back the way you want the West to do?

 

So where will you draw the red line?

 

At least stop NATO expansion and get anything US backed off of Russias border and I don't think there's going to be much of a problem anymore. It's possible Ukraine would need to be split in two also so that the anti-Russian Eastern part won't have access to the largly Russian speaking western part.

 

All of this talk about Russia invading peaceful countries is just more US pro-war propaganda by the same people that gave us the 20 year disaster that was the Iraq/Afghanistan war. Now that they left the Middle East they're moving on to the next target and if they get away with it we could have a serious war breakout in Europe.

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Any good spin doctor can make any speech but there is NO free speech in Russia and it was done for internal consumption only. He like many other dictators are in it for the face.

I take him at his word because I've seen the US backed coups and the rabid anti-Russia rhetoric from the media and political establishment (remember the Trump election and presidency?). IMO Putin is 100% justified in his stance and I'm not gonna let the media trick me into another 2001'esque "weapons of mass destruction" nonsense that leads to another 20 year conflict.

[NorthernRyland]

8 hours ago, John Drake said:

They're not needed at all. In fact, what India is trying to do is colonize the US. Greedy billionaires and companies (Disney) outsource jobs that were being done effectively by Americans to Indian companies that then import Indian workers

Tech salaries are too high so they're trying to break the backs of the white collar workers just like they did with the blue collar workers starting in the 90's with illegal Mexican immigration. The market is already totally saturated yet they're still flooding the market with foreign students (who eventually get jobs and green cards) and H1B etc... contracts. All of this is driving down the wages exactly like they wanted.

[relax33]

8 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

You must be living in a different world to think sovereign countries can be forced and pressured to attend a summit. 

You are so right ..
And Sovereignty is pointless if a country cannot survive n prosper economically
In the world that we live today, protecting your sovereignty n having good business sense to ensure your country prosper means that when the boss (who is the leading economic power of the world n the one with the power to sanction you as he controls a cheat code tool called "SWIFT" n a world reserve currency called the usd) asks you to jump, you immediately ask "How High ??" ... 
Only the extremely foolish will ever even think of politely refusing such an invite or to even say that they were pressured into attending .. ha.

[Bkk Brian]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:35 AM, Jingthing said:

The only real hope for peace in Ukraine, etc. is to beat Putin's ass in the WAR.  Clearly Asean wants to stay neutral. Not helpful!

Thats exactly whats happening, it may take a while but Ukraine will overcome the illegal invasion

[TropicalGuy]

5 hours ago, Onerak said:

Nothing will happen. YOu can bet on that. European and American market cannot survive without access to India's middle class population and their talented educated workforce. Forbes predict by 2030, 50% of American CEOs will be first generation American-Indian. They are first generation means they have not cut off their relationship with India yet and they never let any harm happen to India's progress. 

Indians settled raised educated in UK or US are first rate in my ( oil industry) experience.

 

Professional Indians raised educated remaining in India clearly lack the western qualities of initiative, confidence  and unconventional thinking.
 

When they ship out to Middle East to work they are typically paralyzed with fear, requiring close supervision for extended periods. 

Many English- speaking oil/ gas Projects attempted in India have simply been unmitigated disasters. 
 

Many newly approved oil/ gas manufacturing plants in India have all been disapproved within two years for serious Quality & Schedule Failures.

 

Same above experience for China in all respects. 

[TropicalGuy]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

So you think the best thing is to do nothing and let Russia take over a peaceful democratic nation.

 

And if Russia attacks another free democratic nation the world should turn its back the way you want the West to do?

 

So where will you draw the red line?

 

Poland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden. Finland, Latvia, the English channel, UK, France , Spain, Portugal, Italy, the Baltics. Where?

 

YOU can draw the red line and tell us all how wrong we are, and that the Russians have the right to invade anywhere they want to, at any time that they want.

 

 

Any good spin doctor can make any speech but there is NO free speech in Russia and it was done for internal consumption only. He like many other dictators are in it for the face.

 

For me personally the only truth that I believe from Putin's mouth is when he says his name.

Even then I would want an investigation signed off by western

court with two expert western witnesses…..????????????