Any experienced electrical minds? Consumer unit questions.

[djlest]

So, i have acquired an old 30yr house to renovate and it I'm starting with the electrics.

So here is the fuse box, not bad quality tbh, seems much better built than some of the newer Schneider units. But no rcb or rcbo so i want to improve it.

 

My question is, can i add some rcd rcbo to the existing box, or shpuld i just bite the bullet and buy a new dual bus consumer unit? Is there a work around?

 

It still has 3 spaces left but maybe not enough for rcd? Im not sure because its an older box and maybe different fittings too etc? Never much experience with consumer units.

 

What are your thoughts to improve on it?

 

 

 

[Crossy]

You should be able to get an RCBO to replace the main breaker. Check the size because that CU looks a bit small top-bottom. 

 

OR

 

Replace individual MCBs with single width RCBOs so you can protect only the "risky" circuits and not lose everything if there's a problem.

 

Obviously both solutions would need the plug-in type unit rather than DIN.

[sometimewoodworker]

It’s a square D box so you are limited in options 

[bankruatsteve]

The earth bar doesn't look very much populated.  Is ground going out to receptacles?

[thaibeachlovers]

I bought a stand alone RCD unit when I lived in LOS. Gets added BEFORE the consumer box.

I think it cost about 2,000 baht but my memory isn't great.

[Crossy]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I bought a stand alone RCD unit when I lived in LOS. Gets added BEFORE the consumer box.

I think it cost about 2,000 baht but my memory isn't great.

 

Yeah, the ubiquitous Safe-T-Cut, I think they're a bit more than 2 Grand now ???? 

[djlest]

12 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

The earth bar doesn't look very much populated.  Is ground going out to receptacles?

Thanks for the replies
yes i have no idea what they were thinking during this build, just checking upstairs and no power outlets have ground yet all the downstairs power outlets seems to be earthed? 

 

[djlest]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

You should be able to get an RCBO to replace the main breaker. Check the size because that CU looks a bit small top-bottom. 

 

OR

 

Replace individual MCBs with single width RCBOs so you can protect only the "risky" circuits and not lose everything if there's a problem.

 

Obviously both solutions would need the plug-in type unit rather than DIN.

Thanks crossy
Im not too familiar with consumer units but im guessing its a DIN right?

[Boyn]

Bite the bullet and buy a new CU you know it makes sense

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Boyn said:

Bite the bullet and buy a new CU you know it makes sense

 

At least in Thailand they are not too expensive. I bought a few to bring back to home country as anything like that costs A LOT OF MONEY here.

If you do, don't throw the old one away as if you leave the place you could put it back and take the new one with you.

[Crossy]

4 hours ago, djlest said:

Thanks crossy
Im not too familiar with consumer units but im guessing its a DIN right?

 

No, the unit you have is "plug-in" which limits you to Schneider/Square-D parts although a couple of other manufacturers also do similar units which fit. The big plus for amny is that they are a piece of cake to wire up.

 

DIN units have a "universal" mounting rail which can accept all kinds of useful accessories, they are however a bit more complex to wire up.

[BritManToo]

20 hours ago, djlest said:

What are your thoughts to improve on it?

Buy new ........ not expensive (1,250bht delivered)

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/nano-plus-14-rcbo-50a-63a-12-kerry-i2323214425-s7850510554.html

Edited May 12, 2022 by BritManToo

[lopburi3]

18 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, the ubiquitous Safe-T-Cut, I think they're a bit more than 2 Grand now ???? 

Actually not much more.

https://shopee.co.th/เซฟ-ที-คัท-รุ่นใหม่ล่าสุด-มีไฟLED-ขนาด2p-50A-i.41896259.2658127260?sp_atk=5d923b3c-c368-4658-bf6a-879ab48b3471&xptdk=5d923b3c-c368-4658-bf6a-879ab48b3471

[djlest]

Thanks really appreciate the comments, i think i will upgrade to a newer unit, was looking at 8+8 double bus Schneider. Not too sure if the double bus is really worth it though.
 

just a quick observation on my old unit, the main breaker is 80a. Is that the norm here? 

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Buy new ........ not expensive (1,250bht delivered)

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/nano-plus-14-rcbo-50a-63a-12-kerry-i2323214425-s7850510554.html

Excellent, Wow yes thats a great price, with breakers too.much cheaper than the Schneider units.

 

has anyone used these Nano brands? How reliable are they? What the quality like? 

[Crossy]

15 minutes ago, djlest said:

has anyone used these Nano brands? How reliable are they? What the quality like? 

 

If you order one and decide the quality is off you can return it easily ("Change of Mind" is acceptable).

 

[BritManToo]

30 minutes ago, djlest said:

has anyone used these Nano brands? How reliable are they? What the quality like? 

I use Nano for everything (past 3 years), they seem to work perfectly.

Come complete with MCBs, live bus bar, neutral bar, earth bar.

When I ham handedly short something out (rare), click and they're off, or more often the rabbit chews through a mains cable (frequent) rabbit survives with no apparent damage.

 

Can't comment on RCBO as I don't use them, but the main and individual circuit MCBs work perfectly. Quality metal box as well. The knock-outs are a bit hard to knock-out.

Edited May 13, 2022 by BritManToo

[djlest]

48 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I use Nano for everything (past 3 years), they seem to work perfectly.

Come complete with MCBs, live bus bar, neutral bar, earth bar.

When I ham handedly short something out (rare), click and they're off, or more often the rabbit chews through a mains cable (frequent) rabbit survives with no apparent damage.

 

Can't comment on RCBO as I don't use them, but the main and individual circuit MCBs work perfectly. Quality metal box as well. The knock-outs are a bit hard to knock-out.

Yes i think i will get one, did not see any dual bus nano CUs yet.

 

i hear the plastic boxes are illegal now, in UK at least. Higher Fire risk apparently, so metal is preffered.

 

does anyone know why my old box has an 80a main breaker? Just curious.

[Crossy]

44 minutes ago, djlest said:

Yes i think i will get one, did not see any dual bus nano CUs yet.

 

i hear the plastic boxes are illegal now, in UK at least. Higher Fire risk apparently, so metal is preffered.

 

does anyone know why my old box has an 80a main breaker? Just curious.

 

Converting to dual-bus isn't difficult but some action with a hacksaw is needed ???? 

 

Actually plastic isn't illegal in the UK but the box must be "fire resistant" which the manufacturers are interpreting as "metal". In reality I (and many others) still prefer plastic, less hazard if something comes loose and flaps around inside.

 

For your incomer, what size meter do you have? On a 15/45 a 63A incomer is common but in the past you could get away with pretty much anything.

 

I believe @BritManToo has at least one Nano box, perhaps he could comment on the quality.

[djlest]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Converting to dual-bus isn't difficult but some action with a hacksaw is needed ???? 

 

Actually plastic isn't illegal in the UK but the box must be "fire resistant" which the manufacturers are interpreting as "metal". In reality I (and many others) still prefer plastic, less hazard if something comes loose and flaps around inside.

 

For your incomer, what size meter do you have? On a 15/45 a 63A incomer is common but in the past you could get away with pretty much anything.

 

 

Thanks crossy, tbh im not sure what size meter there is. The house was unoccupied for 20 yrs and the meter has been removed i guess.
Also the cable to the house is underground for 100m then there is metal box up on a pole, i presume the rest of the moo baans meters are inside, but they are not visible & locked.

not quite sure at the moment, i will try and get a bit more info. 
i would have thought it was 63a like most places this size in bkk, its only a 3 bedroom house 2flr, 65sqm.

Edited May 13, 2022 by djlest

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, djlest said:

does anyone know why my old box has an 80a main breaker? Just curious.

Moo Baans had strange (to me) requirements 25-30 years ago.  So, maybe just that.  The main breaker just needs to be big enough for maximum draw but is rarely needed to protect anything.

[djlest]

5 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Moo Baans had strange (to me) requirements 25-30 years ago.  So, maybe just that.  The main breaker just needs to be big enough for maximum draw but is rarely needed to protect anything.

Yes i checked another house next door and it is also on an 80a breaker. It seems the whole moo baan is.

does this rule still apply or can i go ahead with a 63a im wondering.

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, djlest said:

Yes i checked another house next door and it is also on an 80a breaker. It seems the whole moo baan is.

does this rule still apply or can i go ahead with a 63a im wondering.

As said above the new normal is 63 amp main breaker for the common 15/45 amp meters feeds most of us have.   Back in the metal fuse days believe it was common to have 80 amp main fuse (although my brain may be shorted worse then the electrics as date back too many moons).

Edited May 13, 2022 by lopburi3

[djlest]

13 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

As said above the new normal is 63 amp main breaker for the common 15/45 amp meters feeds most of us have.   Back in the metal fuse days believe it was common to have 80 amp main fuse (although my brain may be shorted worse then the electrics as date back too many moons).

Thanks lopburi yes it makes sense, i believe this old housing estate was built maybe 30+ years ago by europeans & thais, so could be an older reg but perhaps not so common everywhere.

Edited May 14, 2022 by djlest

[djlest]

Quick question:

So decided to shop for a new DIN consumer unit and need to calculate how many subs, i may as well future proof the place even if i dont decide to stay.

 

with regards to kitchen appliances and common thai wiring (im used to uk rings)

 

Dishwashers, washing machines (with heat elements etc) electric hobs, electric oven.

 

is it common practice to have each one on its own breaker? I know AC & shower units are the norm, how about dishwasher & washing machines? Or even large refrigerator? 
 

hows everyone wired their newer builds?

Edited May 14, 2022 by djlest

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, djlest said:

is it common practice to have each one on its own breaker? I know AC & shower units are the norm, how about dishwasher & washing machines?

Only if you have breakers to spare.  In the kitchen, I have two circuits for diversity of appliances.  I do have the built in oven on it's own circuit and an electric hob should probably have it's own also.

[lopburi3]

The more the better - especially when tracking down an RCBO trip.  But refrigerators/water cooler and table top electrics use normal wall outlets (but best to have several outlet breakers for kitchen area).

[Crossy]

Yeah ^^^.

 

Hob/cooktop on it's own circuit, give the oven it's own circuit too if it's built-in otherwise it can go on a regular outlet, at least two other circuits for outlets plus one or two outlets that are not on RCD/RCBO for your fridge and freezer.

 

All outlet circuits in 2.5mm² on 20A breakers, no UK style rings please, radials only.

[djlest]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yeah ^^^.

 

Hob/cooktop on it's own circuit, give the oven it's own circuit too if it's built-in otherwise it can go on a regular outlet, at least two other circuits for outlets plus one or two outlets that are not on RCD/RCBO for your fridge and freezer.

 

All outlet circuits in 2.5mm² on 20A breakers, no UK style rings please, radials only.

Thanks crossy awesome!

what is your opinion on yellow plastic boxes versus the metal terminal junction boxes in the ceilings?

 

im sure they are much stronger or longer lasting than the yellow boxes, but whoever put mine in here never heard of rubber grommets, having said that ribber would probably break down in this heat too.

 

whats the current norm? Just look st all these sharp edges & stripped cables!

[Crossy]

Argh!!! ^^^

 

Our wiring is all in the plastic boxes except for behind outlets and switches where the regular metal back-boxes are used. In the dark (no UV) they will last forever and no sharp edges to injure your wires (and no possibility of a short if it should get hurt)

[bluejets]

20 hours ago, djlest said:

Just look st all these sharp edges & stripped cables!

AND lack of earthing to the enclosure and conduits.????

Edited May 15, 2022 by bluejets