Retirement visa income requirement - how does it really work?

[RubenRemus]

Good people of this community, help me understand the Retirement visa extension requirement with regard to the monthly income piece.

I'm in-country already with a bank account in my name. I turn 50 in a few months. I can transfer in the required 800K at any time to start the seasoning process. My questions are about the 65K income requirement:

 

1. Is 65K actually required to be brought in each month - or is that only if you've dipped into the 800K?
2. If it is required, what forms of documentation are needed to prove the source of the 65K is a monthly pension vs, say, just moving over more of your foreign savings each month? 

3. In the same vein, when is the embassy letter about the 65K monthly pension actually necessary? Is it optional if you have 800K in the bank? 

4. Lastly, back to #2, if you are just moving more of your foreign savings each month, what's to stop a "retiree" from moving new income earned abroad over? It seems to me this would be an attractive option for digital nomad types who are 50+. Quietly, of course. 

 

I'm sure these have been asked a thousand times - thanks in advance. 

[DrJack54]

Which country are you from.

Meaning does your embassy provide income letter

[ubonjoe]

1. There is no requirement to transfer 65k baht into the country unless you are using that option for financial proof.

There is no requirement to keep all of the 800k baht in the bank other than 2 months before your apply for your extension and 3 months after you apply. After 3 months you lower it to 400k baht until you top up your account to 800k baht again.

2. and 3. are not needed if using the 800k baht option.

[Jingthing]

To begin, the 800k bank method and 65k per month income method are two different options. Either / OR. Not both.

[kiteman9]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To begin, the 800k bank method and 65k per month income method are two different options. Either / OR. Not both.

It says here you can use both with the combined total                                                                                                                       You must meet at least one of the following:

• Have at least 800,000 Thai baht in a Thai Bank account which is in your name. This money must have been cleared in the account at least 2 months prior to making your application.
• Or, have a monthly income or pension of at least 65,000 Thai baht.
• Or, have an annual income, pension, and money in a Thai bank, which come to a combined total of at least 800,000 Thai Baht.

To apply for this visa you must be 50 years of age or older.

You must meet at least one of the following:

• Have at least 800,000 Thai baht in a Thai Bank account which is in your name. This money must have been cleared in the account at least 2 months prior to making your application.
• Or, have a monthly income or pension of at least 65,000 Thai baht.
• Or, have an annual income, pension, and money in a Thai bank, which come to a combined total of at least 800,000 Thai Baht.

Important: A Thai retirement visa does not allow you to work in Thailand.

Proof needed

To prove that you have sufficient funds in a Thai bank account you must provide the following documentation:

• Incase of Security deposit, an updated passbook/bank book which is in your name and from a recognized Thai bank. A letter from the bank clearly stating that at least 800,000 baht was deposited in your account from an overseas source, and has been cleared at least 2 months prior to the date of your retirement visa application.
• Incase of Income, provide a 12-month bank statement showing a regular monthly deposit of 65,000 Thai Baht into a Thai bank account and a certified bankletter by your Embassy in Thailand

While it is not common procedure, in some cases you may be required to provide the following:

• Police clearance
• Medical certificate

How to apply

You can apply for a Thai retirement visa within Thailand or in a country you are a resident in. It is extremely important that you supply all the above mentioned required documents in full when making your application, as well as the relevant visa application form.

When applying for a Thai retirement visa within Thailand (Non-Immigrant O-Long Stay Visa):

• You must start the application process by applying for a 90-day non-immigrant visa from a Thai embassy or consulate outside of Thailand, after which you can make an application for a retirement visa in Thailand (you cannot apply for a Thai retirement visa while in Thailand on a 30 day entry stamp or Tourist Visa).
• You must then be in Thailand for at least 60 days (or within the last 30 days of your current visa stamp expiry) before submitting your retirement visa application at an immigration office.
• You will also be required to provide proof of address in Thailand which can be done by providing a rental agreement or utility bill displaying your name.

When applying for a Thai retirement visa outside of Thailand (Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa):

• You must submit all the required documents, supporting material, and a completed application form to a Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate within which you are currently resident.

It is important to note that not all Thai Embassies and Consulates are able to supply Thai retirement visas, so it is important to check before making your application.

Important information

Visa Renewal

It is important to note that renewal of a Thai retirement visa is subject to the same requirements as when applying for the visa for the first time. In addition to this any proof of funds in your Thai bank account must have been deposited and cleared at least 3 months prior to your visa renewal application date.

As well as providing proof of your current income and bank balance you will also be required to supply the following additional documents:

• A completed TM7 form. (You can download this TM.7 Form from our website)
• Your passport.
• Two passport sized photos (4 x 6 cm).
• Copies of your passport and the relevant pages.
• A copy of your bank book or passbook.
• A letter from your Thai bank confirming the status of your account.

The current fee for Thai retirement visa renewal is 1,900 Baht (non-refundable)

[Jingthing]

That is actually a third method. The combination method . The most complicated method.

 

Some offices don't even accept combo method applications 

 

The vast majority of retirees here use either the 800k bank method OR the 65k baht income method.

[The Hammer2021]

You are here in Thailand  already? Go and chat with an agent - they are the experts. I don't speak Thai, am alone and absolutely  hate bureaucracy so always pay professionals to help me out whenever  and wherever  I can.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

You are here in Thailand  already? Go and chat with an agent - they are the experts. I don't speak Thai, am alone and absolutely  hate bureaucracy so always pay professionals to help me out whenever  and wherever  I can.

No need for an agent fixer for people that are able to meet the financial requirements of one of the methods.

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That is actually a third method. The combination method . The most complicated method.

 

Some offices don't even accept combo method applications 

 

The vast majority of retirees here use either the 800k bank method OR the 65k baht income method.

I think you're being too dismissive about the combination method. If the idea is attractive to the O/P I would suggest that he approaches the immigration asks whether they will accept it. They really should do. It's a valid option and they're just being lazy if they try to refuse it.

 

Even if I had 800k to stash away, I would never allow immigration to have control over what I can and cannot do with my own money. To my mind it's scandalous!

[Jingthing]

Just now, Moonlover said:

I think you're being too dismissive about the combination method. If the idea is attractive to the O/P I would suggest that he approaches the immigration asks whether they will accept it. They really should do. It's a valid option and they're just being lazy if they try to refuse it.

 

Even if I had 800k to stash away, I would never allow immigration to have control over what I can and cannot do with my own money. To my mind it's scandalous!

My opinion is K-I-S-S.

That's how the officers like it.

[KannikaP]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

To begin, the 800k bank method and 65k per month income method are two different options. Either / OR. Not both.

Unless your IO accepts the Combination Method, where your money in the bank plus your monthly transfers total more than Bht 800k. Mine does.

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That is actually a third method. The combination method . The most complicated method.

 

Some offices don't even accept combo method applications 

 

The vast majority of retirees here use either the 800k bank method OR the 65k baht income method.

Complicated? 50k per month (which can be spent) = 600k plus 200k in the bank = 800k.

[KannikaP]

25 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Even if I had 800k to stash away, I would never allow immigration to have control over what I can and cannot do with my own money. To my mind it's scandalous!

Then you would be kicked out of the country.

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Complicated? 50k per month (which can be spent) = 600k plus 200k in the bank = 800k.

Not all offices would accept as low as 200k and also you need to learn how BALANCE MAINTENANCE rules apply at your office for combos.

Yes compared to the other methods objectively more complicated.

[ripstanley]

Go to your local Immigration office and ask them. They are the ones that make the final decision. Most Immigration offices have there own rules. Good luck.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

Go to your local Immigration office and ask them. They are the ones that make the final decision. Most Immigration offices have there own rules. Good luck.

Especially with combo method enforcement rules may vary radically office to office. If even accepted.

800k method on the other hand is very straightforward.

[ripstanley]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Especially with combo method enforcement rules may vary radically office to office. If even accepted.

800k method on the other hand is very straightforward.

In my local office they insist on 800k 3 months not 2 in bank before extension date.

[KannikaP]

37 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

Go to your local Immigration office and ask them. They are the ones that make the final decision. Most Immigration offices have there own rules. Good luck.

So their own rules apply to their office wherever they're situated?

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Not all offices would accept as low as 200k and also you need to learn how BALANCE MAINTENANCE rules apply at your office for combos.

Yes compared to the other methods objectively more complicated.

I don't think if I mentioned BALANCE MAINTENANCE to my friendly IO, he would know what (the <deleted>) I was talking about ,as neither do I.

[DrJack54]

27 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

In my local office they insist on 800k 3 months not 2 in bank before extension date.

Which immigration office? 

[RubenRemus]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Which country are you from.

Meaning does your embassy provide income letter

Thanks - US. Don't think the embassy does, but perhaps someone here can confirm. 

[RubenRemus]

OP here, thanks everyone for helping to resolve this. The simplest solution is the 800K deposit for sure. So last question from me: If I turn 50 on, say, December 1 would the correct sequence be:

 

1. Transfer the 800K into my Thai bank account just before October 1.

2. Exit Thailand - late October

3. Apply Non-O Retirement 90 day visa from abroad - early November

4. Re-enter Thailand with Non-O Retirement 90 day visa. - mid November

5. Apply to extend Non-O for 1 year with bank details - December 1 or December 2. 

 

Does this sound workable?  

[Tod Daniels]

1 hour ago, RubenRemus said:

1. Transfer the 800K into my Thai bank account just before October 1.

2. Exit Thailand - late October

3. Apply Non-O Retirement 90 day visa from abroad - early November

4. Re-enter Thailand with Non-O Retirement 90 day visa. - mid November

5. Apply to extend Non-O for 1 year with bank details - December 1 or December 2. 

 

Does this sound workable?  

Totally workable,
BUT
you could also apply for the in country 90 day Non-O visa at your immigration office.
Most offices follow the actual rule that states there is no seasoning of the funds when you apply for the 90 day Non-O in country and it only needs to be in your account on the date you apply and has to have come from a transfer from abroad)

Keep in mind you need a minimum of 15 to 21 days left on your current visa exempt or tourist visa entry, or extension stamp from one of those  (depending on the immigration office) to apply for an in country Non-O visa (most offices have a 14 day under review, Chiang Mai/Phuket have a 20 day under review)  

1 - transfer in the 800K baht to a thai bank account in your name only
2 - go apply for the in country 90 day Non-O visa (2000baht)
3 - wait the under review period
4 - go back get the Non-O and new 90 day stamp inked in
5 - wait until the funds are seasoned the 2 months
6 - go apply for the yearly extension of stay (1900baht)

Getting the 90 day Non-O visa at a nearby thai consulate would work too, just wanted to point out that you can do it in country as well
 

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

13 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I think you're being too dismissive about the combination method. If the idea is attractive to the O/P I would suggest that he approaches the immigration asks whether they will accept it. They really should do. It's a valid option and they're just being lazy if they try to refuse it.

 

Even if I had 800k to stash away, I would never allow immigration to have control over what I can and cannot do with my own money. To my mind it's scandalous!

Expand  

My opinion is K-I-S-S.

That's how the officers like it.

My opinion on K-I-S-S is get an agent to do it for me. I would wager that the officers like it even more.

 

Of course the decision is entirely U2U but I find it helps if I don't make assumptions about another members financial status, immigration eligibility, etc..

[a977]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That is actually a third method. The combination method . The most complicated method.

 

Some offices don't even accept combo method applications 

 

The vast majority of retirees here use either the 800k bank method OR the 65k baht income method.

I use the combo method and find it quite simple, just show immigration a copy of your pension statement for the year and a copy of your bank statement for the same year add the 2 up and and if they come to 800,000thb bingo your in, easy peasy

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, RubenRemus said:

Thanks - US. Don't think the embassy does, but perhaps someone here can confirm. 

Does NOT. 

[NanLaew]

14 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Unless your IO accepts the Combination Method, where your money in the bank plus your monthly transfers total more than Bht 800k. Mine does.

Is your Bang Rakam location the one served by Phitsanulok Immigration?

 

1 hour ago, a977 said:

I use the combo method and find it quite simple, just show immigration a copy of your pension statement for the year and a copy of your bank statement for the same year add the 2 up and and if they come to 800,000thb bingo your in, easy peasy

Can you also share what Immigration office you are using?

 

There's many posts on these immigration pages where members state 'can' or 'cannot' without the all important bit of WHERE being mentioned.

 

Thanks in advance. Maybe we can work up an ad hoc list of immigration offices that will help @ubonjoe and @DrJack54 keep their extensive knowledge of immigration matters current and more relevant.

 

[thonglorjimmy]

17 hours ago, kiteman9 said:

It says here you can use both with the combined total                                                                                                                       You must meet at least one of the following:

Whilst the information you've copied from a commercial travel and property website seems pretty accurate, it's worth noting that there's very little conistencey in the application of rules between various Immigration Office's

 

Maybe it might have been prudent to copy the caveat from the website you copied from, thanks for taking the time to copy though.

We are NOT the official Thailand Immigration website

If you want to contact Thailand’s Immigration Department please Click Here.

[RubenRemus]

3 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

Totally workable,
BUT
you could also apply for the in country 90 day Non-O visa at your immigration office.
Most offices follow the actual rule that states there is no seasoning of the funds when you apply for the 90 day Non-O in country and it only needs to be in your account on the date you apply and has to have come from a transfer from abroad)

Keep in mind you need a minimum of 15 to 21 days left on your current visa exempt or tourist visa entry, or extension stamp from one of those  (depending on the immigration office) to apply for an in country Non-O visa (most offices have a 14 day under review, Chiang Mai/Phuket have a 20 day under review)  

1 - transfer in the 800K baht to a thai bank account in your name only
2 - go apply for the in country 90 day Non-O visa (2000baht)
3 - wait the under review period
4 - go back get the Non-O and new 90 day stamp inked in
5 - wait until the funds are seasoned the 2 months
6 - go apply for the yearly extension of stay (1900baht)

Getting the 90 day Non-O visa at a nearby thai consulate would work too, just wanted to point out that you can do it in country as well
 

Very helpful Tod. I'm in country now on a Non-B for work (work permit). Can this be converted to Non-O retirement in country as well? 

[Siam Bruce]

3 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

Totally workable,
BUT
you could also apply for the in country 90 day Non-O visa at your immigration office.
Most offices follow the actual rule that states there is no seasoning of the funds when you apply for the 90 day Non-O in country and it only needs to be in your account on the date you apply and has to have come from a transfer from abroad)

Keep in mind you need a minimum of 15 to 21 days left on your current visa exempt or tourist visa entry, or extension stamp from one of those  (depending on the immigration office) to apply for an in country Non-O visa (most offices have a 14 day under review, Chiang Mai/Phuket have a 20 day under review)  

1 - transfer in the 800K baht to a thai bank account in your name only
2 - go apply for the in country 90 day Non-O visa (2000baht)
3 - wait the under review period
4 - go back get the Non-O and new 90 day stamp inked in
5 - wait until the funds are seasoned the 2 months
6 - go apply for the yearly extension of stay (1900baht)

Getting the 90 day Non-O visa at a nearby thai consulate would work too, just wanted to point out that you can do it in country as well
 

Getting the Non-O visa here in country at the moment does NOT require any medical insurance, getting the same Visa but its called O-A through an overseas Embassy YOU NEED THE FULL INSURANCE REQUIREMENT ( 1 think 100,000 USD coverage) but please check.

 

Although the RULES for immigration offices and Officers are the same you will find that the way some offices/Officers INTERPRET the Rules are different.

 

Immigration officers are a department of the Thai Police and you will find it VERY difficult to get them to change there procedure even IF it does NOT conform to the Rules.

T.I.T, welcome to Thailand.

For myself, I have only dealt with the Pattaya/Jomtien offices and as long as you check their LATEST requirements it has all been simple. ( they often change slightly especially when a New head of the department is appointed. It is however, a busy office.