billd766 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 38 minutes ago, placeholder said: Here's actually what he said. Keep in mind that this took place in 2019 Emmanuel Macron warns Europe: NATO is becoming brain-dead America is turning its back on the European project. Time to wake up, the French president tells The Economist https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/11/07/emmanuel-macron-warns-europe-nato-is-becoming-brain-dead Why would he ever say that American was turning its back on Europe? Who was America's President then? hmmm.... And has the USA turned its back on NATO and Europe since the WAR in Ukraine started this year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, billd766 said: And has the USA turned its back on NATO and Europe since the WAR in Ukraine started this year? Is Donald Trump still President? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Quote when the fighting stops we can build an exit ramp through diplomatic means Sadly, Putin has put Russia in a situation from where it has no possible diplomatic exit. Neither Ukraine nor NATO or the EU can offer any significant concession to Russia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, placeholder said: Is Donald Trump still President? Donald Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerve Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Is Macron playing the "humiliation" card, or has it been created by the media? The charged word doesn't fit the conflict regarding Putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwonitoy Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 3 hours ago, arithai12 said: I live on a planet on which the USA has all interests for this war to go on and it's them, by supplying billions of dollars of weapons (money which they don't have btw), who are propagating it. Obviously it's a different planet from yours. But trying to use common sense for a moment, it's clear that Russia will not stop if they are humiliated. Macron is (sometimes) right. Like when he said that NATO is obsolete and EU needs their own (minus USA and Canada, that is). That doesn't go well with the USA economic interests. So Russia invades a peaceful country with the 3 year old logic of "MINE MINE MINE" The World responds by sending Ukraine military aid Norway Sweden Finland Denmark Netherlands Latvia Estonia Lithuania Poland Germany Britain France Turkey Italy Greece Spain Canada Japan Israel Oh and the US And more And you make this into the US is propagating war? Humiliate Russia? No I want the country drawn and quartered and scattered to the four corners of the earth never to return. Thankfully they seem to be doing just that. Russia as it was will not exist again Slava Ukraine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 5 hours ago, tgw said: Sadly, Putin has put Russia in a situation from where it has no possible diplomatic exit. Neither Ukraine nor NATO or the EU can offer any significant concession to Russia. The only convenient scenario would be a regime change. It would allow Russia to save face by putting the blame on Putin. No idea about the probability of this scenario to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 33 minutes ago, candide said: The only convenient scenario would be a regime change. It would allow Russia to save face by putting the blame on Putin. No idea about the probability of this scenario to occur. a regime change is hardly a diplomatic exit, is it? also, I'm pretty sure that nobody will be satisfied if only Putin goes / dies / is prosecuted / is sentenced / is imprisoned / is executed ... Putin has thousands of accomplices, some of which are currently asking on Russian TV to "erase the last 30 years of Ukraine's history", while former Ruzzian president Medvedev wants "all Ukrainians gone". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 28 minutes ago, tgw said: a regime change is hardly a diplomatic exit, is it? also, I'm pretty sure that nobody will be satisfied if only Putin goes / dies / is prosecuted / is sentenced / is imprisoned / is executed ... Putin has thousands of accomplices, some of which are currently asking on Russian TV to "erase the last 30 years of Ukraine's history", while former Ruzzian president Medvedev wants "all Ukrainians gone". At least, the "regime change" scenario allows more hope than Putin remaining in command. I would assume that a significant share of Putin's sycophants are opportunistic people who would be eager to change tune when needed. There's a Soviet tradition about it. ???? Regime change is a convenient face saving opportunity, I.e. remember France after WW2. The people cheering De Gaulle in France were the same people who used to cheer Petain. There are plenty of other examples, starting with West and East Germany after WW2. Having said that, as I wrote before, I have no idea about the probabilities attached to this scenario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPapillon Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, tgw said: a regime change is hardly a diplomatic exit, is it? also, I'm pretty sure that nobody will be satisfied if only Putin goes / dies / is prosecuted / is sentenced / is imprisoned / is executed ... Putin has thousands of accomplices, some of which are currently asking on Russian TV to "erase the last 30 years of Ukraine's history", while former Ruzzian president Medvedev wants "all Ukrainians gone". now you are going to upset the anti-Putin crowd living in lala land ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Off-topic, troll post and replies removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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