Ahka traditions - twins - abandoned children

[thcm]

I have understood that Akha cannot keep their twin children and traditionally killed them. But have started giving them away for adoption, also some have been rescued and then adopted.

But how will the Akhas perceive them after an adoption? What will the parents think if the twins are grown up and the twins come and visit them? And what will the village think?

 

Not twins but only children, are there other common causes why the Ahkas does not want/cannot keep a child but abandon it?

[JeffersLos]

21 minutes ago, thcm said:

I have understood that Akha cannot keep their twin children and traditionally killed them.

Why have you understood this? 

[bbko]

Ahka, a hill tribe with "weird" customs, we have similar in the states, we just call them hillbillies.

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, bbko said:

Ahka, a hill tribe with "weird" customs, we have similar in the states, we just call them hillbillies.

Hilltribes here make some wonderful cultural artefacts, unlike the hillbillies of USA, who think high culture is a banjo (out of tune)

[thcm]

because I just heard about 2 pairs of twins who has been adopted who mentioned this tradition. and a searches confirmed it.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, bbko said:

Ahka, a hill tribe with "weird" customs, we have similar in the states, we just call them hillbillies.

Got the USA comparison in very quickly 

[Lemsta69]

1 hour ago, bbko said:

Ahka, a hill tribe with "weird" customs, we have similar in the states, we just call them hillbillies.

I think you mean "Americans"

[dddave]

In many parts of Asia, twins were considered to be bad luck.

When the original co-joined "Siamese Twins" Chang & Eng were born in Samut Songkram in 1811, the local ruler ordered them put to death.  The mother was somehow able to secret them away and raised them into their teens. 

They were discovered by a travelling US physician who took them to the US and exhibited them in freak shows.

  

Over a period of years, they taught themselves to read, write and speak fluent English and managed both to get law degrees.

They adopted the last name of "Bunker".

 

They were able to get out of the contract with the doctor and took control of their own lives, going on the lecture circuit rather than circus shows.  They became immensely popular in both the US and Europe, meeting many royal families and heads of state.

 

They became wealthy enough to buy a sizeable North Carolina plantation which included eleven slaves.  This was prior to the civil war.

Remarkably, they married sisters (not twins) and each had built a large home.  They alternated weeks in the homes and between them (no pun intended) fathered 21 children.

 

Chang died in 1874 at age 62.  Eng died several hours later as they shared critical organs and he could not survive on his own.

 

Several years ago, almost 3000 descendants of the twins had a family re-union in N. Carolina.  Included among the descendants were a Congressman, several professional athletes and many who had attained stature in their professions and lives.  Not a bad legacy for a pair of co-joined twins who were supposed to be tossed in a river to drown.

 

There is currently a Thai produced biographical TV series tracing their remarkable lives playing on one of the Disney channels.                     

Edited June 8, 2022 by dddave

[thcm]

Thank you for your information.

Does anyone know what the Ahkas perceive of the twins are after an adoption? What will the parents think if the twins are grown up and the twins come and visit them? And what will the village think?

 

I would very much like to get in touch with someone who knows the Ahka culture especially in the Chiang Rai area.

[Stefan in Thailand]

I have heard this story that twins were killed because they are a reborn lovers who could not come together in their lives before in the 80s.

 

Nowadays Akhas seems to be much more modern. A friend of mine has twins and no problem with it.

 

Why do you want to know?

 

Cheers

Stefan

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Stefan in Thailand said:

I have heard this story that twins were killed because they are a reborn lovers who could not come together in their lives before in the 80s.

 

Nowadays Akhas seems to be much more modern. A friend of mine has twins and no problem with it.

 

Why do you want to know?

 

Cheers

Stefan

You have got that mixed up and are wrong  .

Lovers in a previous life are reincarnated as Twins and they get a ceremonial wedding .

   They are NOT killed, they get married .

Previously some Thais killed  twins , because they had the belief that only animals can give birth to twins and thus twins must be beasts , and so they killed them  

[The Hammer2021]

On 6/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Got the USA comparison in very quickly 

And an entirely false comparison which demonstrates either a significant misunderstanding of tribal  culture or just generalised contempt bordering on racism as hillbillies is a byword  insult for a number of negative  traits.

[Stefan in Thailand]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You have got that mixed up and are wrong  .

I don't think so. You are right about the twins wedding in Thai culture. We are talking about Akha culture and Akhas told me about the twins.

[thcm]

13 hours ago, Stefan in Thailand said:

I have heard this story that twins were killed because they are a reborn lovers who could not come together in their lives before in the 80s.

 

Nowadays Akhas seems to be much more modern. A friend of mine has twins and no problem with it.

 

Why do you want to know?

 

Cheers

Stefan

So your friend is Akha and had twins and kept them right?

 

what I have heard is that Akha thinks only animals can have more than one child and that one will be possessed by evil the other is good, but one can not see the difference, therefore both must be killed. 

I do not know about the man, but the girl can not be in the village next year and can not go to another village, but must live in the jungle. she is not allowed to see or talk to anyone during that time, but the village can provide her with food (however, they can talk to the "trees" nearby) one can not talk about twins in the village at all, so the young people who have not experienced it will not know the tradition until they get twins in the village.

 

since it is the traditional way the Akhas think, I'm interested in what would happen these days if such twins came back and visited the village. what will the village think and do and what about the parents?

 

if your friend is Akha it is possible to get in touch with him so I can learn a little more about the Akha traditions?

[Stefan in Thailand]

6 hours ago, thcm said:

if your friend is Akha it is possible to get in touch with him so I can learn a little more about the Akha traditions?

I will tell her. How can she contact you?

[thcm]

4 hours ago, Stefan in Thailand said:

I will tell her. How can she contact you?

has sent you a pm with contact info, let me know if you have not received it.

Thank you so much for your help.

[herfiehandbag]

I taught in the Catholic School in Chiang Rai. We had very many Akha children - a lot of the Akha are Catholics. I have taught at least three sets of Akha twins. Two pairs of girls, one pair mixed boy and a girl. They had perfectly normal family lives.

Edited August 2, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[thcm]

On 8/2/2022 at 9:16 PM, herfiehandbag said:

I taught in the Catholic School in Chiang Rai. We had very many Akha children - a lot of the Akha are Catholics. I have taught at least three sets of Akha twins. Two pairs of girls, one pair mixed boy and a girl. They had perfectly normal family lives.

nice to hear that tradition has started to disappear, I don't know if anyone still follows the tradition, but 30 years ago there were many who did.

thanks for sharing your positive experience

[Sheryl]

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