U.S. Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, ending 50 years of federal abortion rights

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I am just hoping to God that it IS a political hoax.  

I just hope to god that if its true the ordeal of having to travel to another state for an abortion did not add to the already horrific experience she went through just because of some extremely in just law that has put the US back years in rights for women and children

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I just hope to god that if its true the ordeal of having to travel to another state for an abortion did not add to the already horrific experience she went through just because of some extremely in just law that has put the US back years in rights for women and children

That's another story. But the point is the law can be debated without resorting to fake heartbreaking stories about things that didn't happen.  But for some reason the left likes to spice up their arguments by bringing victims forward to bolster their claims. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

That's another story. But the point is the law can be debated without resorting to fake heartbreaking stories about things that didn't happen.  But for some reason the left likes to spice up their arguments by bringing victims forward to bolster their claims. 

Who said its fake? I think you want it to be fake but you cannot prove that to be the case. Just as it cannot be proven to be true, so back to my original post to you:

 

"Personally I air on the side of caution on the possibility that it is true. To argue against something that could well have happened seems extremely immoral top me."

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

That's another story. But the point is the law can be debated without resorting to fake heartbreaking stories about things that didn't happen.  But for some reason the left likes to spice up their arguments by bringing victims forward to bolster their claims. 

Or so a Conservative Critic has claimed without producing any evidence to back up the claim.

[Hanaguma]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Who said its fake? I think you want it to be fake but you cannot prove that to be the case. Just as it cannot be proven to be true, so back to my original post to you:

 

"Personally I air on the side of caution on the possibility that it is true. To argue against something that could well have happened seems extremely immoral top me."

 

 

How about we air on the side of caution and NOT publicise the story until it can be proven true? How about the President  and his advisors do the same?  I think it is obvious to anyone- the story so nicely fit the left's narrative about abortion that they just HAD to run with it.  

 

I thought the news media was in the business of publishing news, not possibility. And of verifying stories before publication, especially stories with potential national impact.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or so a Conservative Critic has claimed without producing any evidence to back up the claim.

Or to paraphrase the late great Carl Sagan, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". The claim is being made that this horrific crime occurred. All I am asking for is a bit of evidence. More than a news story filed by a well known pro abortion activist.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

How about we air on the side of caution and NOT publicise the story until it can be proven true? How about the President  and his advisors do the same?  I think it is obvious to anyone- the story so nicely fit the left's narrative about abortion that they just HAD to run with it.  

 

I thought the news media was in the business of publishing news, not possibility. And of verifying stories before publication, especially stories with potential national impact.

Perhaps the president knows more than you when he mentioned it. Why would he need to go into details.

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Perhaps the president knows more than you when he mentioned it. Why would he need to go into details.

This President doesn't know more than a potted plant. The only thing he can do is read the teleprompter, and then do it badly.

 

But what about all the other media who jumped on the bandwagon- where are their journalistic instincts? Amazing how their curiosity dries up when a story so precisely fits their political narrative...

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Other points to consider re the Ohio case; the Ohio Attorney General says that his office hasn't heard a word about any case like the one in question. Also, the doctor who broke the story is a well known person in media circles and is often quoted by various outlets and used as a source. At least 5 times in the month before this story gained attention. As in so many situations, consider the source of the story when determining its veracity.

1. If the law requires a Doctor to report abortions performed on minors, why would a Doctor in Ohio, who did not perform an abortion, report an abortion performed by another doctor in Indiana?

 

2. You are correct, we should consider the source of stories.

 

2.1 The source of the allegations is/are un named ‘Conservative Critics’.

2.2 You yourself do not provide links to back up claims you make.

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This President doesn't know more than a potted plant. The only thing he can do is read the teleprompter, and then do it badly.

 

But what about all the other media who jumped on the bandwagon- where are their journalistic instincts? Amazing how their curiosity dries up when a story so precisely fits their political narrative...

You've now lost all credibilty in your argument when coming out with that rubbish.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

This President doesn't know more than a potted plant. The only thing he can do is read the teleprompter, and then do it badly.

 

But what about all the other media who jumped on the bandwagon- where are their journalistic instincts? Amazing how their curiosity dries up when a story so precisely fits their political narrative...

Is this an admission that you’ve got nothing?

 

It certainly adds nothing to the discussion other than you don’t like the President and you’ve got some sort of conspiracy problems with the media.

 

Nobody owes you evidence to back up your claims, you start with the evidence then you base your claims on that evidence.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Or to paraphrase the late great Carl Sagan, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". The claim is being made that this horrific crime occurred. All I am asking for is a bit of evidence. More than a news story filed by a well known pro abortion activist.

Or claims made by ‘Conservative Critics’.

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.  The thread is about Roe vs. Wade.  I think we've heard enough about a source for a story. 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Because that was the information as found on WIkipedia. Not the best source of information to be sure, but one that is easy to find.

 

So what are YOUR stats on the number of 10 year olds who get pregnant? We can at least agree that it is vanishingly rare, thankfully.

Wikipedia told you the number of ten year olds who gave birth.  You posted that number as the number of ten year olds who got pregnant.  There is a big difference, and your post greatly misrepresented reality.  Most ten year olds are not physically able to give birth, though some are able to get pregnant.

 

I am not aware of any source that provides pregnancies by age down to the age of ten.  I suspect that any number provided would be an under-count.

 

Regardless of the number, abortion should always be a safe and accessible option for children and women who are not able to safely carry a pregnancy to term.  Some pro-lifers concede that, others maintain that "every fetus is a human" and "every pregnancy is a gift from god" and insist that things be left in god's hands. 

 

The Ohio law will outlaw abortions unless "the abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant individual or a serious risk of the substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant individual".  https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_134/bills/hb598/IN/00/hb598_00_IN?format=pdf

 

No exceptions for rape or a non-viable fetus destined to be still-born. Also, if it were determined that the ten year old could probably carry the fetus to term without substantially and permanently wrecking her body she would be required to do so. 

 

That is what happens when you let political people, mostly men, decide what women can do with their bodies.

 

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Published in one local media outlet. Repeated by many others. That outlet is not answering questions or any requests for follow up information. There is no due diligence happening.  The only person in the story, Dr. Bernard, is not answering questions.  There is no corroboration by law enforcement or anyone on the Ohio side of things.  

* "Published in one local media outlet."

 

The Indianapolis Star is not an insignificant media outlet. It is one of the strongest publications in the midwest.

 

* "That outlet is not answering questions or any requests for follow up information."

 

You couldn't possibly know this. There could be a great deal going on behind-the-scenes that you know nothing about.

 

* "There is no due diligence happening."

 

You couldn't possibly know this, either.

 

* "The only person in the story, Dr. Bernard, is not answering questions."

 

This could simply be explained by doctor/patient confidentiality. Besides, are you sure the doctor is not answering ANY questions......... or just certain ones?

 

I've seen this same thing said in the past---"They're not answering questions!"--- when someone refuses to answer questions that were point-blank none of the questioner's business! Then suddenly, "They're not answering questions!" becomes what gets reported!

 

Fact is, sometimes people don't answer questions......... because they shouldnt!

 

* "There is no corroboration by law enforcement or anyone on the Ohio side of things."

 

Once again, this may be no more difficult to explain than confidentiality. (Confidentiality due a minor. Confidentiality due a victim of abuse. Confidentiality due a victim of rape. Et cetera.)

 

Law Enforcement (or some other agency) might say, "No comment" or "We cannot confirm or deny"............ and that may be reported as "we have received no corroboration." But that doesn't mean that nothing has been reported, or that no case is being investigated!

 

------------------

 

Personally, I find just a little intellectual curiosity goes a long way. It keeps me from jumping too fast to accept as gospel seeing only what I want to see, hearing only what I want to hear.

 

I start with.......... "Is there ANOTHER explanation for this?" It's amazing how often I find there is!

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[ozimoron]

AOC, Lieu to Senate Dems: Say on the record whether Gorsuch and Kavanaugh lied

 

In a letter to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Lieu and Ocasio-Cortez noted that neither Gorsuch nor Kavanaugh contended during their Senate confirmation hearings that Roe was "egregiously wrong from the start," a position that both justices assented to last month by joining Justice Samuel Alito's majority opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization—a ruling that ended the constitutional right to abortion.

"We cannot have a system where justices lie about their views in order to get confirmed."

"They expressed the exact opposite position," the Democratic lawmakers wrote.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/aoc-lieu-to-senate-dems-say-on-the-record-whether-gorsuch-and-kavanaugh-lied/

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts removed.  Again, the thread is not about the source of a story.  Unless/until someone has a credible source to disprove the story, please stay on topic.  

 

[Credo]

It seems some states are going to take action:

 

Abortion provider says it's deploying a fleet of mobile clinics along border states

(ABC NEWS) -- Just The Pill, a nonprofit abortion group, announced a program called Abortion Delivered and vowed to deploy a fleet of mobile clinics to offer "mobile procedural abortions" along the border of states that impose restrictions.

"By operating on state borders, we will reduce travel burdens for patients in states with bans or severe limits," said Dr. Julie Amaon, the medical director of Just The Pill and Abortion Delivered, in a statement.

Abortion law and restrictions vary by state. Some states have trigger laws in place that immediately ban abortion once the federal protection of Roe was overturned.

https://www.wsiltv.com/news/abortion-provider-says-its-deploying-a-fleet-of-mobile-clinics-along-border-states/article_068bfb66-f3de-11ec-ab24-bb8f398d12a7.html

 

[Jingthing]

Note the parallels to the days of slavery.

[Jingthing]

The republican party should now be branded the Forced Birth party.

[Wrwest]

On 6/25/2022 at 9:43 PM, howlee101 said:

If Hillary had won, do you think she would have appointed conservative leaning judges?

Nope. But I did not vote for her either,

[ozimoron]

On 7/12/2022 at 9:14 AM, Hanaguma said:

That's another story. But the point is the law can be debated without resorting to fake heartbreaking stories about things that didn't happen.  But for some reason the left likes to spice up their arguments by bringing victims forward to bolster their claims. 

That didn't age well.

 

Ohio girl's rapist arrested hours after conservatives questioned case as 'abortion story too good to be true'

 

An Ohio man was arrested in the rape and impregnation of a 10-year-old girl after the state's Republican attorney general cast doubt on a story that drew international attention.

Gerson Fuentes, 27, of Columbus, confessed to raping the child at least twice, according to police, and was charged with rape after police were alerted to the girl's pregnancy from Franklin County Children Services a little over a week before she traveled to Indianapolis for an abortion, reported The Columbus Dispatch.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/gerson-fuentes-rape/

[ozimoron]

On 7/12/2022 at 8:44 AM, Hanaguma said:

Let's assume you are right. Did the doctor do so? Aren't you just a bit curious about that?  My hope is that the doctor did so if the crime happened, and that the rapist is killed.  Yet again, there is NO follow up. What does this tell you...

Huge but wrong assumptions.

 

The doctor had already alerted the police and the rapist arrested likely days before you posted this. You could at least have kept an open mind. Not only you but everyone who grabbed pitchforks and leapt to the attack of professional reputations declaring that the doctors hadn't told the police and claiming the story was likely false. And those who claimed that Biden had reacted to hearsay and hadn't done the anti-trump by checking the facts with his intelligence services should really out themselves and eat crow. I won't hold my breath. Normally I wouldn't care much but, you know, this story is about a ten year old girl being raped and impregnated and the politically motivated push back was a bit insensitive, to put it mildly.

 

But anyway, kudos for keeping your finger on the pulse of the party line.

 

The Wall Street Journal cast doubt on reports about the girl a day before Fuentes' arrest, calling the case "An Abortion Story Too Good To Be Confirmed".

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-abortion-story-too-good-to-confirm-joe-biden-ten-year-old-girl-indiana-ohio-caitlin-bernard-11657648618

Edited July 13, 2022 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

On 7/12/2022 at 9:42 AM, Hanaguma said:

This President doesn't know more than a potted plant. The only thing he can do is read the teleprompter, and then do it badly.

 

But what about all the other media who jumped on the bandwagon- where are their journalistic instincts? Amazing how their curiosity dries up when a story so precisely fits their political narrative...

Ohio police have confirmed a 10-year-old rape victim crossed state lines to terminate her pregnancy, local media reported Wednesday, in a case drawing broad attention after the US Supreme Court overturned a federal right to abortion.

 

The shocking case was questioned by conservative-leaning media outlets and Ohio's attorney general, who cast doubt on the story's veracity.

But Columbus, Ohio police detective Jeffrey Huhn testified in court early Wednesday that the unidentified girl underwent an abortion in Indianapolis on June 30, the Columbus Dispatch reported.

 

https://www.rfi.fr/en/health-and-lifestyle/20220713-rape-of-10-year-old-jolts-us-abortion-debate

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Huge but wrong assumptions.

 

The doctor had already alerted the police and the rapist arrested likely days before you posted this. You could at least have kept an open mind. Not only you but everyone who grabbed pitchforks and leapt to the attack of professional reputations declaring that the doctors hadn't told the police and claiming the story was likely false. And those who claimed that Biden had reacted to hearsay and hadn't done the anti-trump by checking the facts with his intelligence services should really out themselves and eat crow. I won't hold my breath. Normally I wouldn't care much but, you know, this story is about a ten year old girl being raped and impregnated and the politically motivated push back was a bit insensitive, to put it mildly.

 

But anyway, kudos for keeping your finger on the pulse of the party line.

 

The Wall Street Journal cast doubt on reports about the girl a day before Fuentes' arrest, calling the case "An Abortion Story Too Good To Be Confirmed".

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-abortion-story-too-good-to-confirm-joe-biden-ten-year-old-girl-indiana-ohio-caitlin-bernard-11657648618

I see the WSJ has now put an editors note on the article:

Editor’s note: The Columbus Dispatch reported Wednesday, a day after this editorial was published, that a Columbus, Ohio, man has been charged with the rape of a 10-year-old Ohio girl who traveled to Indiana for an abortion. The Dispatch reports that Columbus police were made aware of the pregnancy through a referral to local child services by the girl’s mother on June 22. An editorial correcting the record on the case was published Wednesday evening.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Huge but wrong assumptions.

 

The doctor had already alerted the police and the rapist arrested likely days before you posted this. You could at least have kept an open mind. Not only you but everyone who grabbed pitchforks and leapt to the attack of professional reputations declaring that the doctors hadn't told the police and claiming the story was likely false. And those who claimed that Biden had reacted to hearsay and hadn't done the anti-trump by checking the facts with his intelligence services should really out themselves and eat crow. I won't hold my breath. Normally I wouldn't care much but, you know, this story is about a ten year old girl being raped and impregnated and the politically motivated push back was a bit insensitive, to put it mildly.

 

But anyway, kudos for keeping your finger on the pulse of the party line.

 

The Wall Street Journal cast doubt on reports about the girl a day before Fuentes' arrest, calling the case "An Abortion Story Too Good To Be Confirmed".

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-abortion-story-too-good-to-confirm-joe-biden-ten-year-old-girl-indiana-ohio-caitlin-bernard-11657648618

I said before that Biden should not have highlighted that case before it was more robustly verified. The reason for that was that if it turned out to be false the right wing would focus on that instead of the important part, the horrible new laws. If you think that's deserving of eating crow, so be it. I don’t.

[Atlantis]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Huge but wrong assumptions.

 

The doctor had already alerted the police and the rapist arrested likely days before you posted this. You could at least have kept an open mind. Not only you but everyone who grabbed pitchforks and leapt to the attack of professional reputations declaring that the doctors hadn't told the police and claiming the story was likely false. And those who claimed that Biden had reacted to hearsay and hadn't done the anti-trump by checking the facts with his intelligence services should really out themselves and eat crow. I won't hold my breath. Normally I wouldn't care much but, you know, this story is about a ten year old girl being raped and impregnated and the politically motivated push back was a bit insensitive, to put it mildly.

 

But anyway, kudos for keeping your finger on the pulse of the party line.

 

The Wall Street Journal cast doubt on reports about the girl a day before Fuentes' arrest, calling the case "An Abortion Story Too Good To Be Confirmed".

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-abortion-story-too-good-to-confirm-joe-biden-ten-year-old-girl-indiana-ohio-caitlin-bernard-11657648618

“Kept an open mind” ? This coming from you?
 

Come on now, did he not on multiple occasions provide direct quotes from the local police force? - which was oddly ignored by those “open-minded” posters on here 100% sure the story had to be true despite then police statement…because it fit their political narrative?

 

Only the most cocooned partisan living under a rock would not realise that  the sensationalist US (and other) news media does not have a track record of jumping the gun, and then quietly “updating” their reporting when rumbled.

 

Poor girl. Good thing she can still get an abortion in the US.

 

It’s a shame the perpetrator won’t also be charged with manslaughter if/when the innocent unborn’s life is terminated.

[Phoenix Rising]

Man arrested for rape of Ohio girl who went to Indiana for abortion

 

Ohio man charged with raping 10-year-old who later crossed state lines for abortion

 

GOP Rep. Jim Jordan deletes tweet calling the story of a 10-year-old girl being raped 'another lie' after Ohio authorities charged a man in the case

[Atlantis]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Note the parallels to the days of slavery.

Yes, the parallels to slavery have been forcibly made by those you’d consider political opponents:

 

Once upon a time it was legal to treat other human beings as if they were not human beings. They could be maltreated, and even lawfully killed. And then the (white male) Supreme Court went “nope, nothing in the constitution that lets you do that” - rightly so.

 

Fast forward to 2022, it has been legal across the entire US to treat unborn human beings as “part of the woman’s body / a clump of cells / a-human-but-not-person yada yada” and SCOTUS said “nope, nothing in the constitution let’s you do that….If you want to do that, decide on how and with what restrictions at the state level.”

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Atlantis said:

Yes, the parallels to slavery have been forcibly made by those you’d consider political opponents:

 

Once upon a time it was legal to treat other human beings as if they were not human beings. They could be maltreated, and even lawfully killed. And then the (white male) Supreme Court went “nope, nothing in the constitution that lets you do that” - rightly so.

 

Fast forward to 2022, it has been legal across the entire US to treat unborn human beings as “part of the woman’s body / a clump of cells / a-human-but-not-person yada yada” and SCOTUS said “nope, nothing in the constitution let’s you do that….If you want to do that, decide on how and with what restrictions at the state level.”

Actually, you're misstating the case. Neither the orginal Roe v. Wade nor the Dobbs case refers to any right specifically mentioned in the Constitution.