Man charged with raping Ohio girl, 10, who was denied abortion

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[Hanaguma]

This case gets strangerer and strangerer. According to the Attorney General of Ohio, the girl could have had the procedure done in Ohio, no questions asked. The law permits doctors to perform abortions in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl. As would obviously be the case here.

 

The behavior of the family is also really strange.  The Telemundo interview with the victim's mother was creepy, to say the least. It may go far to explain the very strange timeline of events from the assault to reporting it to now.   Seemed as if the alleged rapist was in some sort of relationship with the mother, had some connection with the family, odd odd odd.

 

 

https://theohiostar.com/2022/07/19/telemundo-alleged-rapist-of-10-year-old-confirmed-to-be-in-domestic-relationship-with-victims-mother/

[stevenl]

37 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This case gets strangerer and strangerer. According to the Attorney General of Ohio, the girl could have had the procedure done in Ohio, no questions asked. The law permits doctors to perform abortions in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl. As would obviously be the case here.

 

The behavior of the family is also really strange.  The Telemundo interview with the victim's mother was creepy, to say the least. It may go far to explain the very strange timeline of events from the assault to reporting it to now.   Seemed as if the alleged rapist was in some sort of relationship with the mother, had some connection with the family, odd odd odd.

 

 

https://theohiostar.com/2022/07/19/telemundo-alleged-rapist-of-10-year-old-confirmed-to-be-in-domestic-relationship-with-victims-mother/

Jesus, again attacking the doctor. You know how to pick your sources.

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Jesus, again attacking the doctor. You know how to pick your sources.

Not attacking the doctor at all. I am saying that the headline here is misleading. The girl wasn't "denied" an abortion in Ohio from what I have read. And the top legal person in the state saying she did not have to leave the state.  Not to mention the delays, denials by the family, this speaks to a larger problem.  The victim's mother is pregnant with the alleged rapist's baby? You can't make this stuff up.

 

Personally I am glad the girl got the abortion and hope she can recover fully. Also if the suspect is convicted, I pray that he has a short and violent stay among regular inmates in a state jail. HE needs to find out how it feels to be victimized.

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Not attacking the doctor at all.

Time for you to read your link then.

Nothing in your link about Ohio abortion rules btw.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

This case gets strangerer and strangerer. According to the Attorney General of Ohio, the girl could have had the procedure done in Ohio, no questions asked. The law permits doctors to perform abortions in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl. As would obviously be the case here.

 

The behavior of the family is also really strange.  The Telemundo interview with the victim's mother was creepy, to say the least. It may go far to explain the very strange timeline of events from the assault to reporting it to now.   Seemed as if the alleged rapist was in some sort of relationship with the mother, had some connection with the family, odd odd odd.

 

 

https://theohiostar.com/2022/07/19/telemundo-alleged-rapist-of-10-year-old-confirmed-to-be-in-domestic-relationship-with-victims-mother/

Actually, it's unclear whether the girl could have gotten an abortion in Ohio. The law is ambiguous. And if a doctor in Ohio is adjudged to have run afoul of the law, they could be sentenced to up to 1 year in prison. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/14/what-ohio-law-says-about-10-year-old-rape-victim-abortion/

[Hanaguma]

32 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, it's unclear whether the girl could have gotten an abortion in Ohio. The law is ambiguous. And if a doctor in Ohio is adjudged to have run afoul of the law, they could be sentenced to up to 1 year in prison. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/14/what-ohio-law-says-about-10-year-old-rape-victim-abortion/

Not according to the Ohio Attorney General.

 

But in any case, at least we can agree that the victim needed care, wherever it took place, and can be glad that she got it.  I am frankly worried about the OTHER children that were living in the same household with the accused attacker. Seems like the victim's mother was quite adamant that he hadn't done anything wrong.  

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Not according to the Ohio Attorney General.

 

But in any case, at least we can agree that the victim needed care, wherever it took place, and can be glad that she got it.  I am frankly worried about the OTHER children that were living in the same household with the accused attacker. Seems like the victim's mother was quite adamant that he hadn't done anything wrong.  

So, the AG can definitively say that she could have gotten an abortion in Ohio?  Abortion is illegal and he has no information on her medical conditions, yet he says it would be OK for an abortion.  I think that's the biggest porky in a while.  He'd be the first to have this doctor burnt at the stake.   

Take a look at what happened to the doctor in Indiana, where it is legal and is now facing a major backlash.   

 

It's pretty obvious you and your ilk are less-than-honest in what you will do to a doctor performing an abortion. You can bet your sweet behind that had the doctor terminated the pregnancy, she'd be lucky to be out on bail.  In the Conservative world, she committed a hanging offense.  Numerous other doctors in other states have faced similar problems.  Women with potentially life-threatening conditions and needing an abortion have either not gotten one or been sent to another state.  Doctors are just too scared that what they consider as life threatening may not agree with what the law thinks is life-threatening.

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

This case gets strangerer and strangerer. According to the Attorney General of Ohio, the girl could have had the procedure done in Ohio, no questions asked. The law permits doctors to perform abortions in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl. As would obviously be the case here.

 

The behavior of the family is also really strange.  The Telemundo interview with the victim's mother was creepy, to say the least. It may go far to explain the very strange timeline of events from the assault to reporting it to now.   Seemed as if the alleged rapist was in some sort of relationship with the mother, had some connection with the family, odd odd odd.

 

 

https://theohiostar.com/2022/07/19/telemundo-alleged-rapist-of-10-year-old-confirmed-to-be-in-domestic-relationship-with-victims-mother/

Is that also when he questioned whether the rape had happened at all:

 

“Every day that goes by, the more likely that this is a fabrication,” he said on Tuesday. “I’m not saying it could not have happened. What I’m saying to you is there is not a damn scintilla of evidence. And shame on the Indianapolis paper that ran this thing on a single source who has an obvious ax to grind.”

 

Its a pity he didn't check with his own police department before questioning the rape happened.

 

Professor of Law and Bioethics Sharona Hoffman from Case Western Reserve University to try and sort this out.

There are concerns about how doctors will be able to treat their patients under this law. Since much of the medical emergency exception is left up to a doctor’s discretion, there’s a gray area. Doctors could face a fifth-degree felony charge if someone questions their decision down the line, putting them in a tough spot.

“They have to engage in a calculus,” Hoffman said. “They have to balance the patient’s best interests against their own best interest and think about whether doing a procedure will result in a risk of prosecution for themselves. And that is very dangerous.”

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

So, the AG can definitively say that she could have gotten an abortion in Ohio?  Abortion is illegal and he has no information on her medical conditions, yet he says it would be OK for an abortion.  I think that's the biggest porky in a while.  He'd be the first to have this doctor burnt at the stake.   

Take a look at what happened to the doctor in Indiana, where it is legal and is now facing a major backlash.   

 

It's pretty obvious you and your ilk are less-than-honest in what you will do to a doctor performing an abortion. You can bet your sweet behind that had the doctor terminated the pregnancy, she'd be lucky to be out on bail.  In the Conservative world, she committed a hanging offense.  Numerous other doctors in other states have faced similar problems.  Women with potentially life-threatening conditions and needing an abortion have either not gotten one or been sent to another state.  Doctors are just too scared that what they consider as life threatening may not agree with what the law thinks is life-threatening.

 

Me and my "ilk"?  What does that mean precisely? If you bothered to read my previous comments, you would have been better informed. I wrote that I was glad the girl got her abortion done, and quickly.  You are letting your emotions and prejudices cloud your reason.  I don't know of any place where a doctor performing an abortion would be subject to the death penalty.  

 

The Ohio AG is the number one law enforcement guy in the state. He said, 

 

“Ohio’s heartbeat law has a medical emergency exception, broader than just the life of the mother,” he said. “She did not have to leave Ohio for treatment.”

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state-ohio/ohio-attorney-general-said-10-year-old-rape-victim-could-have-had-abortion-in-ohio-but-state-law-isnt-clear

 

Cards on the table time.  I think abortions should be legal until the 15th week of pregnancy. Or when the mother's health is in danger. Or in cases of rape. Or in cases of severe birth defect.  After 15 weeks? No, unless one of those conditions is present.  

 

Your turn. 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Me and my "ilk"?  What does that mean precisely? If you bothered to read my previous comments, you would have been better informed. I wrote that I was glad the girl got her abortion done, and quickly.  You are letting your emotions and prejudices cloud your reason.  I don't know of any place where a doctor performing an abortion would be subject to the death penalty.  

 

The Ohio AG is the number one law enforcement guy in the state. He said, 

 

“Ohio’s heartbeat law has a medical emergency exception, broader than just the life of the mother,” he said. “She did not have to leave Ohio for treatment.”

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state-ohio/ohio-attorney-general-said-10-year-old-rape-victim-could-have-had-abortion-in-ohio-but-state-law-isnt-clear

 

Cards on the table time.  I think abortions should be legal until the 15th week of pregnancy. Or when the mother's health is in danger. Or in cases of rape. Or in cases of severe birth defect.  After 15 weeks? No, unless one of those conditions is present.  

 

Your turn. 

Don't  try to confuse what you believe with the law.  The AG, who got it wrong from the start and made disparaging remarks is now to believed that she could have gotten an abortion.  So, how does that work?  Do you take your child to the AG first?  Do medical providers need his consent in writing?  

 

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, Credo said:

Don't  try to confuse what you believe with the law.  The AG, who got it wrong from the start and made disparaging remarks is now to believed that she could have gotten an abortion.  So, how does that work?  Do you take your child to the AG first?  Do medical providers need his consent in writing?  

 

The AG doubted the story, as did many people. So did I. Tragically, it was true and horrific. Then he gave his position as I stated above.  From what I understand in Ohio, doctors make their own decisions without oversight in these cases.

 

I notice that you didnt answer my simple question- where do YOU think the law should stand? Knowing that makes it easier for everyone to understand where we are coming from.

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, Credo said:

Don't  try to confuse what you believe with the law.  The AG, who got it wrong from the start and made disparaging remarks is now to believed that she could have gotten an abortion.  So, how does that work?  Do you take your child to the AG first?  Do medical providers need his consent in writing?  

 

Correct.

 

The AG statements after the fact are meaningless, doubly so given faulty assumptions made by the AG in the immediate aftermath.

[ozimoron]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

This case gets strangerer and strangerer. According to the Attorney General of Ohio, the girl could have had the procedure done in Ohio, no questions asked. The law permits doctors to perform abortions in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl. As would obviously be the case here.

 

The behavior of the family is also really strange.  The Telemundo interview with the victim's mother was creepy, to say the least. It may go far to explain the very strange timeline of events from the assault to reporting it to now.   Seemed as if the alleged rapist was in some sort of relationship with the mother, had some connection with the family, odd odd odd.

 

 

https://theohiostar.com/2022/07/19/telemundo-alleged-rapist-of-10-year-old-confirmed-to-be-in-domestic-relationship-with-victims-mother/

Odd? How odd is it for stepfathers to rape their daughters? Hint: it isn't.

[Credo]

34 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The AG doubted the story, as did many people. So did I. Tragically, it was true and horrific. Then he gave his position as I stated above.  From what I understand in Ohio, doctors make their own decisions without oversight in these cases.

 

I notice that you didnt answer my simple question- where do YOU think the law should stand? Knowing that makes it easier for everyone to understand where we are coming from.

Doctors do NOT have oversight.  Here are the reporting requirements:

 

• 46 states and the District of Columbia require hospitals, facilities and physicians providing abortions to submit regular and confidential reports to the state.
• 8 states require providers to indicate the method of payment, such as insurance or self-pay, for the procedure.
• 28 states require providers to report postabortion complications.
• 16 states require providers to give some information about the patient's reason for seeking the procedure.
  • 10 states ask whether the abortion was performed because of a threat to the patient's health or life.
  • 7 states ask whether the abortion was performed because of rape or incest.
  • 15 states ask whether the abortion was performed because of a diagnosed fetal abnormality.
  • 9 states ask whether the abortion was performed for other reasons (e.g. the patient's economic or familial circumstances).
• 6 states require providers to report whether the fetus was viable.
• 14 states require providers to indicate if the state mandates for abortion counseling and parental involvement were satisfied.
  • 9 states require providers to report whether state-mandated counseling was provided.
  • 14 states require providers to report whether state requirements for parental involvement were met.

https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-reporting-requirements

 

My opinion on abortion is not a part of this topic and is not something that needs to be discussed.   

 

 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Not according to the Ohio Attorney General.

 

But in any case, at least we can agree that the victim needed care, wherever it took place, and can be glad that she got it.  I am frankly worried about the OTHER children that were living in the same household with the accused attacker. Seems like the victim's mother was quite adamant that he hadn't done anything wrong.  

Of course that's what the AG would say now.

[Hanaguma]

11 hours ago, Credo said:

 

 

My opinion on abortion is not a part of this topic and is not something that needs to be discussed.   

 

 

Why not? What are you afraid of?  It is illuminating to see where people are coming from when discussing such an important issue. The fact that you are so coy about it speaks volumes about how you see the issue. 

[Hanaguma]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

Of course that's what the AG would say now.

Actually he has said that from the beginning.   

[placeholder]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Actually he has said that from the beginning.   

Beginning of what? From when the legislation was passed? From when this case came to light?

[Hanaguma]

Sadly, even more sordid details about the case are coming out. The suspect was in fact the boyfriend of the victim's mother.  Seems that both are in the US illegally, which may explain the reluctance on the mother's part to report the crime.  The crime took place on May 12 but wasn't reported to police until June 22, and charges laid on July 6. The mother waited until it was certain her daughter was pregnant before reporting it. This makes me think that, if the girl hadn't become pregnant, the mother would have done nothing.

 

It is common that live-in boyfriends assault the children of the women they are shacking up with.  And the women put up with it for various reasons.  She was already pregnant with the alleged rapist's baby at the time.  If that is the case here, and it seems to be, we can only hope that ALL the children have been removed from the home.

 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/miacathell/2022/07/21/gerson-fuentes-lourdes-gomez-n2610457

Edited July 22, 2022 by Hanaguma

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Beginning of what? From when the legislation was passed? From when this case came to light?

From his first interview about the case.  

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Actually he has said that from the beginning.   

Actually, in the beginning he said the story was a fraud.

As for what he said...

After raising doubts about rape victim, AG’s office won’t say if he supports abortion law

"And since the arrest, Yost has struggled to support his claim on Fox News that under the Ohio law, the 10-year-old could still have gotten an abortion in Ohio. 

By late last week, Yost and his staff not only were still refusing to say how old a girl — or a teen, or a woman — needs to be before the law forces her to have her rapist’s baby. His communications director wouldn’t even say whether the attorney general supports the abortion restrictions he acted with such alacrity to enact less than a month ago."

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/20/after-raising-doubts-about-rape-victim-ags-office-wont-say-if-he-supports-abortion-law/

Edited July 22, 2022 by placeholder

[Hanaguma]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, in the beginning he said the story was a fraud.

As for what he said...

After raising doubts about rape victim, AG’s office won’t say if he supports abortion law

"And since the arrest, Yost has struggled to support his claim on Fox News that under the Ohio law, the 10-year-old could still have gotten an abortion in Ohio. 

By late last week, Yost and his staff not only were still refusing to say how old a girl — or a teen, or a woman — needs to be before the law forces her to have her rapist’s baby. His communications director wouldn’t even say whether the attorney general supports the abortion restrictions he acted with such alacrity to enact less than a month ago."

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/20/after-raising-doubts-about-rape-victim-ags-office-wont-say-if-he-supports-abortion-law/

In the entire article, I think there is only one actual quote from the AG. It is as I posted previosly- he said;

 

“Ohio’s heartbeat law has a medical emergency exception,” Yost told Watters. “It’s broader than just the life of the mother. This young girl — if she exists and if this horrible thing actually happened to her, it breaks my heart to think about it — she did not have to leave Ohio to find treatment."

 

The rest is all innuendo and speculation.

 

BTW, where do YOU stand on the issue? Not Ohio, but abortion in general.  I have made my position clear. Can you do the same? Others seem reluctant to do so for some reason...

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

In the entire article, I think there is only one actual quote from the AG. It is as I posted previosly- he said;

 

“Ohio’s heartbeat law has a medical emergency exception,” Yost told Watters. “It’s broader than just the life of the mother. This young girl — if she exists and if this horrible thing actually happened to her, it breaks my heart to think about it — she did not have to leave Ohio to find treatment."

 

The rest is all innuendo and speculation.

 

BTW, where do YOU stand on the issue? Not Ohio, but abortion in general.  I have made my position clear. Can you do the same? Others seem reluctant to do so for some reason...

And it's clear from the article I cited that Yost refuses to identify what that exception is. It's also obvous that his stance only was made clear after the fact. And the Ohio law allows abortion in the case of a medical condition. But nowhere does it define a medical condition as being 10 years old or any age. Why does Yost refuse to clarify what age would automatically qualify a child to be legally eligible for abortion? Does 11 years old qualify? Yost refuses to say.

[Hanaguma]

Just now, placeholder said:

And it's clear from the article I cited that Yost refuses to identify what that exception is. It's also obvous that his stance only was made clear after the fact. And the Ohio law allows abortion in the case of a medical condition. But nowhere does it define a medical condition as being 10 years old or any age. Why does Yost refuse to clarify what age would automatically qualify a child to be legally eligible for abortion? Does 11 years old qualify? Yost refuses to say.

He probably refuses because people like you will nitpick every syllable to death. He said she wouldn't have had to leave the state. It isn't even clear if the mother even took her daughter to a doctor in Ohio before heading across the border to Indiana.  Hopefully she did, but given what we know she isn't in the running for any "mother of the year" awards.

[coolcarer]

37 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Sadly, even more sordid details about the case are coming out. The suspect was in fact the boyfriend of the victim's mother.  Seems that both are in the US illegally, which may explain the reluctance on the mother's part to report the crime.  The crime took place on May 12 but wasn't reported to police until June 22, and charges laid on July 6. The mother waited until it was certain her daughter was pregnant before reporting it. This makes me think that, if the girl hadn't become pregnant, the mother would have done nothing.

 

It is common that live-in boyfriends assault the children of the women they are shacking up with.  And the women put up with it for various reasons.  She was already pregnant with the alleged rapist's baby at the time.  If that is the case here, and it seems to be, we can only hope that ALL the children have been removed from the home.

 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/miacathell/2022/07/21/gerson-fuentes-lourdes-gomez-n2610457

This info was posted many days ago on this thread if you track back, like then there is no way the mum would have known if her daughter was raped if the then 9 year old had not told her. It’s more plausible that this only came to light when the poor girl started to experience physical pregnancy symptoms a few weeks after the attack.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

He probably refuses because people like you will nitpick every syllable to death. He said she wouldn't have had to leave the state. It isn't even clear if the mother even took her daughter to a doctor in Ohio before heading across the border to Indiana.  Hopefully she did, but given what we know she isn't in the running for any "mother of the year" awards.

What's nitpicking about asking for a definitive age that would qualify as a medical condition? You don't think a doctor who's asked to perform an abortion on, say, a 12 year old, has a right to know? 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

On 7/21/2022 at 5:20 PM, Hanaguma said:

According to the Attorney General of Ohio, the girl could have had the procedure done in Ohio, no questions asked. The law permits doctors to perform abortions in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl. As would obviously be the case here.

Here is the important sentence in this quote..........

 

in cases where the pregnancy could cause injury to the woman/girl.

 

In the first place, EVERY pregnancy "could" cause injury to a pregnant woman or girl. Every one!

 

So the word "could" is obviously not how they're going to interpret the law, because the law would then be unable to limit anything!.........

 

"Patient could develop blood clots as a result of being pregnant." "Patient could develop diabetes as a result of being pregnant." "Patient could experience antibody toxicity as a result of being pregnant." "Patient could develop chronic back problems as a result of being pregnant." And so forth...... .

 

No, they are going to require a doctor identify some kind of clearly identifiable, immediate threat to the woman or girl.

 

And, as far as we know, no such threat existed with this 10-year old. She was just 10-years old......... and pregnant. That's it!

 

Now, I read an article that made it pretty clear that a 10-year old is at high risk for quite a number of maladies. It made it clear that even though her body was mature enough to release an egg, fertilize it, and implant it in her uterine wall..........  that doesn't mean it is mature enough in the many other ways it needs to be............ to carry a baby to "full term" safely.

 

Simply put, there are at least a dozen other kinds of "maturation" necessary to allow a mother to carry a baby to term, that a 10-year old's body is unlikely to be ready for.

 

But these are questions of RISK. We have no idea how many of those RISKS actually apply to THIS individual! She may, in fact, be fully physically equipped.......... even at 10-years old......... to carry a baby to term! We don't know!

 

But!

 

We know it is a possibility.......... because we know it has happened!

 

So...........

 

I think the Ohio AG is once again running fast and loose

with the truth, here.

 

Yes, it is technically correct that this girl could have received an abortion in Ohio......... IF.......... it could be shown she was in immediate danger. But we've seen no evidence (so far) that she WAS in immediate danger!

 

And it's pretty apparent that in Ohio, just being 10-years old.......... would not be enough.......... to allow a "legal" abortion to go forward! 

 

Yes, without a doubt, this is an age where the risks are exponentially greater. But until there was an actual threat to her life or well-being........... given the nature of the law and the penalties associated............a doctor would have to be crazy to take the chance!

 

No, either the Ohio AG is playing fast and loose with that word "could"........... knowing full well that she couldn't!

 

Or.............

 

His words are opening the door for ANY woman or girl in Ohio who wants an abortion to get one............ because EVERY PREGNANCY "could" lead to serious harm or death!

 

Trust me........ the law means there must be an IMMEDIATE threat to the mother........... not, like the AG says, that there "could be" one! And we have no evidence there was any kind of IMMEDIATE threat to this 10-year old!*

 

-----------------

 

* (Indeed, the biggest threat to her overall......... was probably being in that house while she WAS pregnant! Because her molester would then be absolutely certain she COULDN'T get pregnant [because she already was!] That might have been a big ol' green light to him, to step up the frequency of his abuse!)

Edited July 22, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[billd766]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:29 PM, KanchanaburiGuy said:

By the way.........

 

There is nothing here that attributes what you say as a quote. Yes, it turns out the underlined portion is a link. But there's nothing that identifies it as such. As far as I could tell, it was nothing more than an underlined sentence, for emphasis.

 

And since....... as you published it........ it is not identified as someone else's words......... I'd call that plagiarism. 

 

In my opinion, a hidden attribution........... really isn't one!

 

This is literature, of a sort, not a video game. We are not pre-conditioned to scroll over all the scenery looking for hidden "jumps" and "rewards!"

 

Making someone discover your attribution......... is the same as not making one, at all!

Keep digging.

[stevenl]

37 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Keep digging.

In his defense, he stopped digging almost a week ago.