1 hour ago, candide said:

Trump omitted several lines that encouraged the federal government to take action. ????

“I am directing the Department of Justice to ensure all lawbreakers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,” the omitted portion of the speech reads

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-removed-line-calling-to-prosecute-jan-6-rioters

Won't make a legal difference, and morally he either stays the hero or has been condemned already.

On 7/24/2022 at 12:47 AM, candide said:

Trump told them to head to the Capitol,

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

 

Off-topic videos edited out.

 

Edited July 26, 20223 yr by Scott

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

 

 

"Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property."

 

Sure, have a look at this one, more abound, nobody claimed there was destruction of the neighborhood though unless you meaning the perimeter security fences.

 

 

Edited July 26, 20223 yr by Bkk Brian

2 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

 

 

Interesting. He also said many other things to make sure they got very excited, before he sent them to the Capitol.

 

Now back to topic. Trump sent them to the Capitol and then (remember he was POTUS and Comander in Chief) watched them on TV during 3 hours, doing nothing. He didn't call the DHS , etc... did not enquire whether assistance was needed or not. Nothing  nada, waloo, rien.

 

What do you think of it? Did he accomplish his duty as President by just watch and doing nothing?

3 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

Off-topic videos edited out.

 

The usual nonsense and deflection.  Maxine waters is not the topic.  She is also not the President and Commander-in-Chief.  The insurrection at the Capitol, and that's what it was, happened at the direction of Trump.  He planned it in advance, the Proud Boys knew and they weren't even at the Rally, they were already at the Capitol and in position to break through barriers and that's what happened.  Trump then gave the foot-soldier, rally attendees, their marching orders and they marched.  They illegally entered a restricted area -- the Capitol grounds and building.   They had weapons and there were guns found on insurrectionists.   

 

The President then watched on TV and did nothing.  He made no calls to protect the Capitol.  He did, however, call Rudy Guilliani.  He was urged by his family and staff to call the rioters off.  He didn't.  As C-in-C he had the full authority to call out the military, the National Guard and involve Homeland Security.  He didn't then or later.  When he tweeted hours later for them to go home, most left.  They followed his orders to go to the Capitol.  They followed his orders to leave.   

 

As for damage, the pictures are all over this forum and the rest of the internet.  The cost of damage is estimated at $1.5 million.  

3 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

 

Off-topic videos edited out.

 

They had every right to peacefully protest. The problem is they didn't.

6 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

 

Off-topic videos edited out.

"Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building..."

 

Seriously?  You haven't seen the videos?

 

What kind of extreme information bubble do you live in?

7 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This is verbatim what Trump said.  That is hardly inciting an insurrection.  He did not say if they bring a knife you bring a gun.  He did not say as Maxine Waters did to confront the opposition no matter where they were.  In response to this and her calls to stay in the streets if Derek Chauvin was found not guilty the Democrats came out and said that they support the right to assemble and peacefully protest.  

Show me the videos of the destruction of the capital building, the looting of the neighborhood, the destruction of public property.  

These people had every right to assemble and if anything Trump interfering with that might have been judged to be a violation of their right to assemble. 

 

 

Off-topic videos edited out.

 

See no evil Hear no evil.  North Korea's dear leader would be proud.

Justice Dept. investigating Trump’s actions in Jan. 6 criminal probe

 

The Justice Department is investigating President Donald Trump’s actions as part of its criminal probe of efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, according to four people familiar with the matter.

 

No paywall link

https://web.archive.org/web/20220726230406/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/07/26/trump-justice-investigation-january-6/

26 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Justice Dept. investigating Trump’s actions in Jan. 6 criminal probe

 

The Justice Department is investigating President Donald Trump’s actions as part of its criminal probe of efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, according to four people familiar with the matter.

 

No paywall link

https://web.archive.org/web/20220726230406/https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/07/26/trump-justice-investigation-january-6/

Yeap, the wheels of justice turn ever so slowly, but it's coming for Trump.  Not if but when.  AG Garland has been making the media rounds and repeating that no one is above the law.  It'll be a huge day for American justice when Trump is taken away in handcuffs.  Can't wait.

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

Yeap, the wheels of justice turn ever so slowly, but it's coming for Trump.  Not if but when.  AG Garland has been making the media rounds and repeating that no one is above the law.  It'll be a huge day for American justice when Trump is taken away in handcuffs.  Can't wait.

Unfortunately he'll wait until after the mid terms which will give MAGA more time to push the stolen election lie and claim victimhood. Justice won't be served in a timely fashion.

Another MAGA lie exposed!

 

"Trump's defense secretary denies there were orders to have 10K troops ready to deploy on January 6"

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/26/politics/chris-miller-house-select-committee/index.html

39 minutes ago, candide said:

Another MAGA lie exposed!

 

"Trump's defense secretary denies there were orders to have 10K troops ready to deploy on January 6"

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/26/politics/chris-miller-house-select-committee/index.html

The dangers of a one-sided TV presentation of the story.

Let the facts speak, and to reveal the truth. If you check, GT did not request the DCNG, but gave his pre-authorization for such a request.

 

DoD Office of Inspector General (OIG) review

p.31

 

Miller Contradicts Himself, Says Trump Did Not Order to Deploy Jan.6 Troops

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miller-contradicts-himself-says-trump-did-not-order-to-deploy-jan6-troops/ar-AA101iYK

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by lemmie

37 minutes ago, candide said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/26/politics/chris-miller-house-select-committee/index.html

Who can you believe.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miller-contradicts-himself-says-trump-did-not-order-to-deploy-jan6-troops/ar-AA101iYK

1 hour ago, lemmie said:

The dangers of a one-sided TV presentation of the story.

Let the facts speak, and to reveal the truth. If you check, GT did not request the DCNG, but gave his pre-authorization for such a request.

 

DoD Office of Inspector General (OIG) review

p.31

 

Miller Contradicts Himself, Says Trump Did Not Order to Deploy Jan.6 Troops

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miller-contradicts-himself-says-trump-did-not-order-to-deploy-jan6-troops/ar-AA101iYK

 

 

 

This news was published two hours ago, so I wasn't aware of it

 

Let's see how Miller will explain it.

Top aide to Pence testifies before 1/6 grand jury

The former chief of staff to former Vice President Mike Pence has testified before a federal grand jury investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the U.S. Capitol, a person familiar with the matter said Monday.

 

Marc Short, a close aide to Pence, was at the Capitol on the day of the siege and was with the vice president as he fled his post presiding over the Senate and hid from rioters who had stormed the building and called for his hanging.

 

Short appeared before the grand jury after receiving a subpoena to do so, according to the person, who insisted on anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

 

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-presidential-elections-election-2020-subpoenas-government-and-politics-5c6f96fac132d7d3773128ba03bba98b

3 hours ago, lemmie said:

The dangers of a one-sided TV presentation of the story.

Let the facts speak, and to reveal the truth. If you check, GT did not request the DCNG, but gave his pre-authorization for such a request.

 

DoD Office of Inspector General (OIG) review

p.31

 

Miller Contradicts Himself, Says Trump Did Not Order to Deploy Jan.6 Troops

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miller-contradicts-himself-says-trump-did-not-order-to-deploy-jan6-troops/ar-AA101iYK

 

 

 

That's rich, a Trump defender to let the facts speak. Lots of nerves I must admit. 

3 hours ago, lemmie said:

Who can you believe.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miller-contradicts-himself-says-trump-did-not-order-to-deploy-jan6-troops/ar-AA101iYK

A statement on TV has not the same value as under oath.

 

Some possible explanations are discussed in this article.

https://www.thebulwark.com/trumps-jan-6th-national-guard-lie-crumbles/

 

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by candide

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

That's rich, a Trump defender to let the facts speak. Lots of nerves I must admit. 

Whats so dang rich about seeking the truth, unless you don't like the truth and or fear it, either way what gives you the right to judge me, someone you don't know and because you are obviously fixated on Trump, and MAGA. That just makes you an irrelevant troll attacking anything with Trump/MAGA connotation. You must have a sad existence in NL.

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by lemmie

Well, I see once again the Trump supporters are more interested in perpetuating the Trump lies than getting to the truth.  It seems they will throw as much <deleted> at the truth and see what sticks.   So, just to cut through the noise, here's what we know.  

 

First, it doesn't really matter if their were 10,000 or 20,000 National Guard on the ready.  They were not called up by the President.  

 

Second, he didn't call the Military, Homeland Security. or anyone to protect the capitol.  So far, we only know he called Rudy Guilliani.  

 

The facts are real and the proof is in the pudding.  He took no action.  He didn't have anyone in his inner circle take any action even when they urged him to.  Instead, they resigned.  Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his action, was it?

 

 

5 hours ago, lemmie said:

The dangers of a one-sided TV presentation of the story.

Let the facts speak, and to reveal the truth. If you check, GT did not request the DCNG, but gave his pre-authorization for such a request.

 

DoD Office of Inspector General (OIG) review

p.31

 

Miller Contradicts Himself, Says Trump Did Not Order to Deploy Jan.6 Troops

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miller-contradicts-himself-says-trump-did-not-order-to-deploy-jan6-troops/ar-AA101iYK

 

 

 

This was a conversation but not an order.  There was no official "pre-authorization".  Ya think Miller just could pass along the claim that President Trump wants troops deployed without something in writing? Maybe you're confused because the White House operated so much like the mafia and we know wise guys don't like to leave a paper trail. Anyway,  we know it's nonsense because on the actual day, despite entreaties from those around him, he refused to authorize the deployment of the National Guard. So you're claiming he pre-authorized the National Guard but when the need became urgent he refused to do so? Laughable.

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

This was a conversation but not an order.  There was no official "pre-authorization".  Ya think Miller just could pass along the claim that President Trump wants troops deployed without something in writing? Maybe you're confused because the White House operated so much like the mafia and we know wise guys don't like to leave a paper trail. Anyway,  we know it's nonsense because on the actual day, despite entreaties from those around him, he refused to authorize the deployment of the National Guard. So you're claiming he pre-authorized the National Guard but when the need became urgent he refused to do so? Laughable.

It seems that what Trump's hired staffers, including Miller, said to Fox News, and what Miller himself said under oath, were two different things.  Then again, as brilliantly stated by the host, "there's no law against lying to Fox News viewers, (and if there was, they would not have a network).  But, there is a law against lying under oath".  Which side of the story, both told by the same man, do you believe?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 20223 yr by ballpoint

On 7/27/2022 at 12:56 AM, pomchop said:

See no evil Hear no evil.  North Korea's dear leader would be proud.

I must say, I never have heard of a person being charged with a crime because of not "doing something".  

Hell if Trump had sent out federal force to stop the "protestors" Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of the nut cases would have charged him with unlawfully using force against U.S. citizens and stripping them of their consitituional right to assemble. 

This entire thing is just a Kabuki dance.  They have manufacturered charges against Trump for absolutely everthing from Russian Collusion, to bribing Ukraine.  It matters not that there is a scintilla of proof of it.  You smear the person publicly and that is what some of the public will hear an believe.

Edited July 29, 20223 yr by onthedarkside
off topic diversion comments removed

13 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I must say, I never have heard of a person being charged with a crime because of not "doing something".  

Hell if Trump had sent out federal force to stop the "protestors" Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of the nut cases would have charged him with unlawfully using force against U.S. citizens and stripping them of their consitituional right to assemble. 

This entire thing is just a Kabuki dance.  They have manufacturered charges against Trump for absolutely everthing from Russian Collusion, to bribing Ukraine.  It matters not that there is a scintilla of proof of it.  You smear the person publicly and that is what some of the public will hear an believe.  The fact that Hunter Biden gets millions, that Joe Biden proudly proclaims witholding aid to get a prosecutor invstigating his son, does not "warrant" investigating.  But Trump not "stopping" people is a crime. Perhaps you should alert the Democrats that it is a crime and then perhaps cities across the USA that were looted, vandalized, people assaulted wouldn't have happend "if they did something" 

That's because nobody has been charged with not "doing something", they have been charged with "Criminal Negligence" or "negligent inaction" however.

On 7/28/2022 at 4:54 PM, Longwood50 said:

I must say, I never have heard of a person being charged with a crime because of not "doing something".  

Hell if Trump had sent out federal force to stop the "protestors" Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of the nut cases would have charged him with unlawfully using force against U.S. citizens and stripping them of their consitituional right to assemble. 

This entire thing is just a Kabuki dance.  They have manufacturered charges against Trump for absolutely everthing from Russian Collusion, to bribing Ukraine.  It matters not that there is a scintilla of proof of it.  You smear the person publicly and that is what some of the public will hear an believe.

All Trump had to do was tweet that the attack on the Capitol was not what he wanted and not making his case for remaining President any stronger.  He could have called off the mob, but he didn't.  That was a violation of his oath of office.   That was a gross dereliction of duty.

 

Are you actually ok with a President who won't lift a finger to help when the nation's Capitol is under attack?

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

 

 

I'm talking about Trump on 6th Jan with the riots and break ins at Captiol Hill causing over 1.5 million in damages.

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

 

  The mob that attacked the Capitol were attempting to prevent the certification of the 2020 election results and the peaceful transition of power at our highest level of government.

 

I asked before if you were ok with a President who wouldn't lift a finger to help when the nation's Capitol was under attack.  Apparently the answer is yes. 

 

If you are American you are no patriot.  Regardless of your nationality you are no supporter of democracy.

What a coincidence.  More text messages from the run up to Jan 6th have gone missing.  This time for then acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf and acting deputy secretary Ken Cuccinelli.  I guess it's better to delete your self incriminating evidence and be thought a crook, than keep it and remove all doubt.

 

 

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

 An estimated 1,200 - 2,500 people Of that group Christopher Michael Alberts, Lonnie Leroy Coffman, Mark Sami Ibrahim, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. and Guy Wesley Reffitt — are charged with possessing firearms. But none are charged with using them .

 

And of course with your liberal bias having 5 people carrying but not using a fiream was a serious threat to overturn the government of the USA with its 330 million people.  Yes those 5 people could certainly have overwhelmed the 3,500 police officers who are on the Washington DC police force.  

Oh PS Washington DC is a city, and the Mayor of Washington is she culpable too?  I don't recall any condemnation of the mayor for failure to immeciately dispatch the local police force.  By contrast the Federal Government has prohibitions against using military to enforce civil actions. 

I am sure if Trump had used military force, he would have been charged with violating that law as well. 

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.

 

6 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.

Let me add a link to that and tell you why it is irrelevant:

 

"The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act