2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Would that be because Gordon Brown did so well with the UK when he was Chancellor and PM, before Labour was booted out the last time?

Not sure why you bring up Brown's record as Chancellor and PM here as he is no longer involved in front-line politics?  Unless you still using the 2008 financial crisis as an excuse for the UK's decline over the past 12 years of Tory government?

 

To answer your question directly: I think that Brown's performance as Chancellor and PM had more pluses than minuses. His lasting achievement was to be one of the (the?) leading players in dealing with the worldwide financial crisis.

 

The reason behind the tongue-in-cheek "there is no money left" comment was because £500bn was spent saving the UK banking system from collapse.

 

What would you have done? Let it fail?

 

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

And you think that Labour should be back in power?

I'll reserve judgement until closer to the next election but the way things stand, I'm certainly leaning that way.

Edited September 29, 20223 yr by RayC
Clarification

2 hours ago, RayC said:

Not sure why you bring up Brown's record as Chancellor and PM here as he is no longer involved in front-line politics?  Unless you still using the 2008 financial crisis as an excuse for the UK's decline over the past 12 years of Tory government?

 

To answer your question directly: I think that Brown's performance as Chancellor and PM had more pluses than minuses. His lasting achievement was to be one of the (the?) leading players in dealing with the worldwide financial crisis.

 

The reason behind the tongue-in-cheek "there is no money left" comment was because £500bn was spent saving the UK banking system from collapse.

 

What would you have done? Let it fail?

 

I'll reserve judgement until closer to the next election but the way things stand, I'm certainly leaning that way.

The UK was declining long before the 2008 crisis and has continued since then.

 

There does not seem to be ANY political party in the UK who is capable in any way to restoring the UK to as it was perhaps 40 years ago.

 

I could go back to the 1960s when the unions were dictating to the Labour government what they wanted and that they would make it happen going back to Harold Wilson's first government.

 

You would have to go back to 1905 to 1922 when the last Liberal government was in power. Since 1922 there has always been either a Conservative or Labour government apart from WW2 which was mostly Conservative even then.

 

Since then it has been Buggin's turn next between both parties. Each has promised many things and both lots have failed the UK people.

 

Soon it will be Buggin's turn again for a while.

 

Will it be any better than it is now.

 

IMHO, yes for some and not really for the majority.

 

If only there was a spot on the ballot paper saying "I wouldn't vote for any of them".

 

That would be a sure fire winner.

 

Liz Truss, you are clearly not up to the job. Please, for your own well being, call it a day and call a general election.

 

 

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

The UK was declining long before the 2008 crisis and has continued since then.

 

There does not seem to be ANY political party in the UK who is capable in any way to restoring the UK to as it was perhaps 40 years ago.

 

I could go back to the 1960s when the unions were dictating to the Labour government what they wanted and that they would make it happen going back to Harold Wilson's first government.

 

You would have to go back to 1905 to 1922 when the last Liberal government was in power. Since 1922 there has always been either a Conservative or Labour government apart from WW2 which was mostly Conservative even then.

 

Since then it has been Buggin's turn next between both parties. Each has promised many things and both lots have failed the UK people.

 

Soon it will be Buggin's turn again for a while.

 

Will it be any better than it is now.

 

IMHO, yes for some and not really for the majority.

 

If only there was a spot on the ballot paper saying "I wouldn't vote for any of them".

 

That would be a sure fire winner.

 

Last 40 years of UK GDP

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281744/gdp-of-the-united-kingdom/

Now GDP isn't everything, and the UK ranks very low on income equality, but that doesn't mean the 40 years ago things were better.

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

The UK was declining long before the 2008 crisis and has continued since then.

 

There does not seem to be ANY political party in the UK who is capable in any way to restoring the UK to as it was perhaps 40 years ago.

 

I could go back to the 1960s when the unions were dictating to the Labour government what they wanted and that they would make it happen going back to Harold Wilson's first government.

 

You would have to go back to 1905 to 1922 when the last Liberal government was in power. Since 1922 there has always been either a Conservative or Labour government apart from WW2 which was mostly Conservative even then.

 

Since then it has been Buggin's turn next between both parties. Each has promised many things and both lots have failed the UK people.

 

Soon it will be Buggin's turn again for a while.

 

Will it be any better than it is now.

 

IMHO, yes for some and not really for the majority.

 

If only there was a spot on the ballot paper saying "I wouldn't vote for any of them".

 

That would be a sure fire winner.

 

I'd argue that UK has been in relative decline since, at least, the end of WWI when it was replaced as the world's predominant power by the US.

 

Imo this relative decline will continue. It is almost inevitable that Asian countries such as India will overtake the UK both in terms of economic clout and in terms of political influence on the world stage. Imo there was/is almost certainly nothing that could - or can - be done by any political party to reverse this trend.

 

However, this begs the question how should this decline be managed? I'd argue that working closely with neighbours in Europe such as France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc who face a similar problem is a good start, but the last - and if the soundings are correct - current UK administration clearly thought and think otherwise. 

34 minutes ago, RayC said:

I'd argue that UK has been in relative decline since, at least, the end of WWI when it was replaced as the world's predominant power by the US. 

 

If it has taken over 100 years to decline this far, I am not going to lose any sleep in my remaining years.

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

Would that be because Gordon Brown did so well with the UK when he was Chancellor and PM, before Labour was booted out the last time?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Gordon_Brown

 

Do you remember this?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-24173270

 

As outgoing chief secretary to the Treasury following Labour's defeat in the 2010 general election, Liam Byrne famously left a note to his successor saying: "Dear Chief Secretary, I'm afraid that there is no money. Kind regards and good luck."

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/byrne-baby-byrne

 

When Liberal Democrat MP David Laws became Treasury chief secretary in May 2010, his new private secretary handed him a sealed envelope. “Here’s something your predecessor left for you,” the civil servant said. Laws opened it with interest. “Dear Chief Secretary,” he read. “I’m afraid that there is no money. Kind regards and good luck! Liam.”

 

Five years on, the hastily scrawled missive from Labour frontbencher Liam Byrne is still dominating the political agenda. For the Tories and Liberal Democrats, it's the perfect symbol of Labour’s supposed spending spree in office, which, they say, hugely inflated the deficit and precipitated the financial crisis. The note is mentioned by David Cameron and Nick Clegg in speech after speech, ministers relentlessly refer to it on TV, and parliamentary candidates rail against it at public meetings. The Conservatives never miss a chance to tweet about it.

 

And you think that Labour should be back in power?

The thing I most remember about Gordon was the 6 BILLION quid he wasted on the NHS, given he apparently didn't target it to making the NHS a better organisation, and it was used to create more managers and make fancier buildings in my experience.

7 hours ago, RayC said:

However, this begs the question how should this decline be managed? I'd argue that working closely with neighbours in Europe such as France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc who face a similar problem is a good start, but the last - and if the soundings are correct - current UK administration clearly thought and think otherwise.

I would say the UK declaring war on the EU (a united Europe under German rule) is the way forward.

It worked the first two times, so 3rd time lucky!

Edited September 30, 20223 yr by BritManToo

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would say the UK declaring war on the EU (a united Europe under German rule) is the way forward.

It worked the first two times, so 3rd time lucky!

Well get yourself away to Ukraine if you feel like going to war in Europe. Enjoy!

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The thing I most remember about Gordon was the 6 BILLION quid he wasted on the NHS, given he apparently didn't target it to making the NHS a better organisation, and it was used to create more managers and make fancier buildings in my experience.

When Gordon Brown was PM the Labour Government had met its promise to deliver a 2 day wait time to see a GP. And it was 2 days.

 

The current Tory Government has made a promise to get the wait time to see a GP down to 2 weeks.

 

 

9 minutes ago, baboon said:

Well get yourself away to Ukraine if you feel like going to war in Europe. Enjoy!

I don't have anything against the Russians, why would I want to fight them?

48 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would say the UK declaring war on the EU (a united Europe under German rule) is the way forward.

It worked the first two times, so 3rd time lucky!

This is what raising a nation on jingoistic black and white war movies does.

 

 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This is what raising a nation on jingoistic black and white war movies does.

 

 

People who watched Rambo when it was released are now approaching retirement  age 

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People who watched Rambo when it was released are now approaching retirement  age 

And the older a voter in the UK is, the more likely they are to support Brexit.

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And the older a voter in the UK is, the more likely they are to support Brexit.

What the hell does that have to do with the topic ?

Brexit was years ago and part of the UKs history 

Move on and get with the times 

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What the hell does that have to do with the topic ?

Brexit was years ago and part of the UKs history 

Move on and get with the times 

It’s still consuming Government time, constraining the economy, damaging businesses and undermining the UK’s place on the world stage.

 

Post (oven ready) Brexit is unquestionably adding to UK costs and inflation.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s still consuming Government time, constraining the economy, damaging businesses and undermining the UK’s place on the world stage.

 

Post (oven ready) Brexit is unquestionably adding to UK costs and inflation.

 

 

 

What about World War two , that still has an effect on the UK and the E.U , shouldn't have given Germany such bad conditions after WW1 

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What about World War two , that still has an effect on the UK and the E.U , shouldn't have given Germany such bad conditions after WW1 

Sorry I don’t have time for your trolling this morning.

On 9/23/2022 at 9:10 PM, pegman said:

£ now down $.05 in the last week. We are watching a train wreck happen in real time.  This finance minister seems set on making the UK economy equivalent to that of his parent's Ghana.  Pity the UK expat 

The Pound has recovered against the $ and has gained what it lost last week and it wasnt such a big issue 

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What the hell does that have to do with the topic ?

Brexit was years ago and part of the UKs history 

Move on and get with the times 

My comment was part of a mini thread that began with this:

 

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would say the UK declaring war on the EU (a united Europe under German rule) is the way forward.

It worked the first two times, so 3rd time lucky!

Oddly enough, you didn't object to this post. Double standard much?

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

My comment was part of a mini thread that began with this:

 

Oddly enough, you didn't object to this post. Double standard much?

I have blocked BM2 and therefore I didn't read his post and so no double standards there 

43 minutes ago, placeholder said:

My comment was part of a mini thread that began with this:

 

Oddly enough, you didn't object to this post. Double standard much?

Britman's post was probably a joke. Gave me a laugh.

Why would anyone object to it?

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Britman's post was probably a joke. Gave me a laugh.

Why would anyone object to it?

One would think that such a ridiculous statement would be a joke. But the dismal history of the Brexit threads shows otherwise.

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would say the UK declaring war on the EU (a united Europe under German rule) is the way forward.

It worked the first two times, so 3rd time lucky!

????Didn't Johnson's administration do that already? Has Truss lifted hostilities? I must of missed that

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Pound has recovered against the $ and has gained what it lost last week and it wasnt such a big issue 

Bit early to call 'Problem solved'.

 

In any event, the recovery is no thanks to the government. It is a response to the BoE promising to buy long-dated gilts over the next fortnight at a cost of £65m. 

 

Let's see what the market does when the BoE stops intervening.

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

One would think that such a ridiculous statement would be a joke. But the dismal history of the Brexit threads shows otherwise.

Could just be attention seeking ?

 

 

Kwarteng faces calls for inquiry after champagne do with financiers

 

 

Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is facing calls for an official inquiry following a report that he attended a private champagne reception with hedge fund managers who stood to gain from a collapse in sterling following his mini-budget.

The Sunday Times reported that he joined the gathering at the Chelsea home of a City financier on the evening of September 23 where he was said to have been “egged on” to commit to his plan for £45 billion of unfunded tax cuts.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/kwarteng-faces-calls-for-inquiry-after-champagne-do-with-financiers/ar-AA12uddh?cvid=dcd1f31f0d904af29c287bcf00119f01

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

 

Kwarteng faces calls for inquiry after champagne do with financiers

 

 

Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is facing calls for an official inquiry following a report that he attended a private champagne reception with hedge fund managers who stood to gain from a collapse in sterling following his mini-budget.

The Sunday Times reported that he joined the gathering at the Chelsea home of a City financier on the evening of September 23 where he was said to have been “egged on” to commit to his plan for £45 billion of unfunded tax cuts.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/kwarteng-faces-calls-for-inquiry-after-champagne-do-with-financiers/ar-AA12uddh?cvid=dcd1f31f0d904af29c287bcf00119f01

 

In this instance, it doesn't appear that Kwarteng has actually done anything that is illegal or against parliamentary convention.

 

However, it is another example of how this (mini) budget has badly mismanaged, and of Kwarteng's political naivety and/or arrogance.

43 minutes ago, RayC said:

In this instance, it doesn't appear that Kwarteng has actually done anything that is illegal or against parliamentary convention.

 

However, it is another example of how this (mini) budget has badly mismanaged, and of Kwarteng's political naivety and/or arrogance.

Not even if he had told these hedge fund people what his plans were? Would it be illegal for his audience to profit from their advance knowledge?

45 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Not even if he had told these hedge fund people what his plans were? Would it be illegal for his audience to profit from their advance knowledge?

Party took place on the evening after the (mini) budget measures were announced to parliament, so nothing illegal. As it was a private party, Kwarteng did not have to disclose his attendance.

 

As I said before, perhaps not a great look but nothing to see here really.