7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Getting back to topic.

 

The interest rate hike coupled with the unfunded tax give away to the already wealthy isn’t going too well is it.

 

 

Yes, I can see why you might not want to discuss Labour's "opposition" over the last 2.5 years.

 

As for the mini budget, swings and roundabouts. Personally I got a pretty good rate when I sent home my annual bonus on Monday. Didn't quite catch the bottom, but close.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Oh I don't know, the UK thrives on these sorts of drama's and now that Boris has gone and Sunak's attempt at a takeover has failed, the people at home were starting to get restless, a void needs to be filled and this fits the bill perfectly. People all over the country will be reaching for the popcorn and pretty soon the papers will be full of headlines such as, "How Much Longer Can Truss Survive".

It’s not an unreasonable question, though my punt is Kwarteng goes first.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, I can see why you might not want to discuss Labour's "opposition" over the last 2.5 years.

 

As for the mini budget, swings and roundabouts. Personally I got a pretty good rate when I sent home my annual bonus on Monday. Didn't quite catch the bottom, but close.

 

 

 

Because Labour’s opposition is not the subject of the thread might be a clue.

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because Labour’s opposition is not the subject of the thread might be a clue.

Stop bringing up Labour then....

Even setting aside the inequity of the Tory tax cuts, and the fact that trickle-down Reaganomics didn't really work,  borrowing in order to stimulate the economy is immoral for two additional reasons. Not only does it shift the burden of repayment unto future generations, but it stimulates the consumption of goods and services which unfairly burdens future generations who will have to contend with the environmental degradation and climate change consequences largely driven by this excess consumption.

 

 

how's this new UK (chancellor) minister of the finances doing  555

IMF criticises Government tax plan saying it will ‘likely increase inequality’

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/imf-criticises-government-tax-plan-increase-inequality-b1028593.html

 

Edited September 28, 20223 yr by Mavideol

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

 

How long do you want to give it?

Longer than you have...........................

The madness of borrowing money to fund tax cuts for the wealthy is biting back again.

 

The Bank of England has announced it shall now intervene to try and stabilize Sterling by buying long term UK Government bonds.

 

So the unfunded tax cuts for the wealthy are to be paid for by driving up national debt, and the BoE is now spending foreign currency reserves to try and stabilize Sterling.

 

Something has to go:

 

The PM?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer?

The Chairman of the Bank of England?

The UK Credit Rating?

Sterling?

One or more or all of the above?

 

How long do you want to give it.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Longer than you have...........................

And apparently longer than the Bank of England

 

Bank of England will buy UK government bonds to try to calm markets

The Bank of England will buy up U.K. government bonds to try to halt a dramatic sell-off as it warned of a "material risk to UK financial stability" in the wake of the government's mini-budget.

The central bank said that it would today start buying long-dated government bonds at “whatever scale is necessary” in a bid to “restore orderly market conditions.”

“The Bank is monitoring developments in financial markets very closely in light of the significant repricing of UK and global financial assets,” it said in a statement.

https://www.politico.eu/article/bank-of-england-will-buy-uk-government-bonds-to-try-to-calm-markets/

 

 

So the BoE is telling the government their policy is not a viable option. Doubtful they'll listen though.

10 hours ago, Mavideol said:

how's this new UK (chancellor) minister of the finances doing  555

IMF criticises Government tax plan saying it will ‘likely increase inequality’

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/imf-criticises-government-tax-plan-increase-inequality-b1028593.html

 

Having lived and worked in London for 10 years, I saw first hand how the rich live, and IMO it would be hard to "increase" inequality much more, short of workhouses and breadlines.

The problem the BOE has with buying bonds using their Foreign Currency Reserves is that they don't have very much and the markets know this. Reserves are about USD 108 bill, but only half of that amount is liquid, the rest is in gold and SDR's. By contrast, Thailand has USD 200 bill and Japan has USD 1.2 trill. , the UK has slightly more than Indonesia but less than Mexico!

 

In practice the BOE has about USD 50 bill. to spend on bond buying, given the scale of the bond market the BOE has no chance of making even a small dent in the problem. The other problem is that if they spend the reserves there's nothing left to defend the Pound and devaluation becomes a possibility. Markets seem to think the only way to resolve the problem is for BOE to over deliver on a rate hike in early November, markets are already pricing in a 1.5% increase but this may not be enough....the electorate will be thrilled to know their borrowing costs are going to increase by a huge amount, not! 

 

The solution? observers and commentators seem to agree that a policy shift is needed, aka, backtrack, which brings with it all manner of political stability risks.....Sir Keith and Sunak must be rubbing their hands in glee, both for different reasons, get the popcorn ready.

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Having lived and worked in London for 10 years, I saw first hand how the rich live, and IMO it would be hard to "increase" inequality much more, short of workhouses and breadlines.

It's not about how the rich live. It's about how the shrinking middle class, working class, and poor live.

13 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Something has to go:

 

The PM?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer?

The Chairman of the Bank of England?

The UK Credit Rating?

Sterling?

One or more or all of the above?

I'd say the Governor of the BOE. 

 

They seem to be working to counteract the government's plans at the moment. The BOE and the IMF need to stay out of politics. We had enough of that with Carney's ridiculous scaremongering during the build up to the Brexit referendum. The IMF's running commentary on the UK government's decisions is also unwelcome.  

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'd say the Governor of the BOE. 

 

They seem to be working to counteract the government's plans at the moment. The BOE and the IMF need to stay out of politics. We had enough of that with Carney's ridiculous scaremongering during the build up to the Brexit referendum. The IMF's running commentary on the UK government's decisions is also unwelcome.  

I wouldn’t be so sure.

 

There are already rumblings on the Tory back benches calling for Kwarteng to be sacked.

 

No 10 has issued a statement that Kwarteng has Truss’ full support. Fans of English football will recognize this statement for what it is.

 

 

The BOE is tasked with controlling inflation, it’s the Government acting against the BOE.

 

 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Having lived and worked in London for 10 years, I saw first hand how the rich live, and IMO it would be hard to "increase" inequality much more, short of workhouses and breadlines.

Food banks ?!

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wouldn’t be so sure.

 

There are already rumblings on the Tory back benches calling for Kwarteng to be sacked.

 

No 10 has issued a statement that Kwarteng has Truss’ full support. Fans of English football will recognize this statement for what it is.

 

 

The BOE is tasked with controlling inflation, it’s the Government acting against the BOE.

 

 

I thought the BOE had admitted defeat on controlling inflation back in May? Sounds like he (and he's not the only one ????) is flogging the mini budget excuse for all it's worth.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0a8f0465-12ed-412b-94cb-571f9fb6f0d4

 

truss on verge of catastrophe and u turn in the offing - it is, after all, her specialty. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/28/bank-of-england-in-65bn-scramble-to-avert-financial-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Edited September 29, 20223 yr by Bluespunk
Punctuation- twice

19 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I thought the BOE had admitted defeat on controlling inflation back in May? Sounds like he (and he's not the only one ????) is flogging the mini budget excuse for all it's worth.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0a8f0465-12ed-412b-94cb-571f9fb6f0d4

 

That was back in May, before the idiocy of borrowing money to give tax cuts to the already wealthy.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That was back in May, before the idiocy of borrowing money to give tax cuts to the already wealthy.

 

 

Except that is not true is it?  It's a mere £2bn for the tax cuts that brings it back the higher tax rate back into line to what the highest rate of tax was during the majority of the last Labour government.   The rest of the £48bn borrowing is to fund the basic rate cut that benefits everyone who pays income tax.   The poorest are going to benefit from the £200bn from help with the energy crisis.   

16 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The madness of borrowing money to fund tax cuts for the wealthy is biting back again.

 

The Bank of England has announced it shall now intervene to try and stabilize Sterling by buying long term UK Government bonds.

 

So the unfunded tax cuts for the wealthy are to be paid for by driving up national debt, and the BoE is now spending foreign currency reserves to try and stabilize Sterling.

 

Something has to go:

 

The PM?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer?

The Chairman of the Bank of England?

The UK Credit Rating?

Sterling?

One or more or all of the above?

 

How long do you want to give it.

 

 

 

all of the above... it appears they replaced bad with worse  555

Edited September 29, 20223 yr by Mavideol

1 hour ago, James105 said:

Except that is not true is it?  It's a mere £2bn for the tax cuts that brings it back the higher tax rate back into line to what the highest rate of tax was during the majority of the last Labour government.   The rest of the £48bn borrowing is to fund the basic rate cut that benefits everyone who pays income tax.   The poorest are going to benefit from the £200bn from help with the energy crisis.   

It it is true.

2billion is the estimated cost of cutting the 45% rate, it ignores the other billions of tax cuts that disproportionately favour the wealthy.

 

And all of it borrowed.

 

Now add the £65Billion of foreign reserves the BoE is having to spend to defend the value of Sterling.

 

What a mess, and all of Truss’ making.

 

A she’s a gift to the opposition, at terrible cost to the nation.

 

Please don’t say you weren’t warned.

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

it ignores the other billions of tax cuts that disproportionately favour the wealthy.

Which are what exactly?  

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

Which are what exactly?  

I’m not the subject of the discussion in this thread.

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not the subject of the discussion in this thread.

So you don't know then or made it up?  It was a genuine question as from what I can see people are losing their minds over a £2bn tax cut for the wealthy, whilst ignoring the tax cuts and giveaways that benefit everyone such as the 1p tax cut on basic rate and the £200bn giveaway for energy bills.    

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I thought the BOE had admitted defeat on controlling inflation back in May? Sounds like he (and he's not the only one ????) is flogging the mini budget excuse for all it's worth.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0a8f0465-12ed-412b-94cb-571f9fb6f0d4

 

There's a big difference between 10% and 20% or more.

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

So you don't know then or made it up?  It was a genuine question as from what I can see people are losing their minds over a £2bn tax cut for the wealthy, whilst ignoring the tax cuts and giveaways that benefit everyone such as the 1p tax cut on basic rate and the £200bn giveaway for energy bills.    

About that $200 billion giveaway for energy bills. The reason it's so large is that it's not targeted. So everyone gets the same percentage  discount instead of it being targeted at the people who will suffer most. As the IMF and others have pointed out making that feel far more expensive than it needs to be and still skimping on aid to those who need it the most.

 

19 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Something has to go:

 

The PM?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer?

The Chairman of the Bank of England?

The UK Credit Rating?

Sterling?

One or more or all of the above?

You left pensions off your list.

On 9/24/2022 at 4:42 PM, RayC said:

To be fair to Truss and Kwarteng, they stated that they rejected Treasury (Economic) orthodoxy and they have done just that. 

 

If it works then they will deserve another term. If it doesn't then forthcoming government(s) could be left trying to repair the damage for the next decade or more.

Would that be because Gordon Brown did so well with the UK when he was Chancellor and PM, before Labour was booted out the last time?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Gordon_Brown

 

Do you remember this?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-24173270

 

As outgoing chief secretary to the Treasury following Labour's defeat in the 2010 general election, Liam Byrne famously left a note to his successor saying: "Dear Chief Secretary, I'm afraid that there is no money. Kind regards and good luck."

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/byrne-baby-byrne

 

When Liberal Democrat MP David Laws became Treasury chief secretary in May 2010, his new private secretary handed him a sealed envelope. “Here’s something your predecessor left for you,” the civil servant said. Laws opened it with interest. “Dear Chief Secretary,” he read. “I’m afraid that there is no money. Kind regards and good luck! Liam.”

 

Five years on, the hastily scrawled missive from Labour frontbencher Liam Byrne is still dominating the political agenda. For the Tories and Liberal Democrats, it's the perfect symbol of Labour’s supposed spending spree in office, which, they say, hugely inflated the deficit and precipitated the financial crisis. The note is mentioned by David Cameron and Nick Clegg in speech after speech, ministers relentlessly refer to it on TV, and parliamentary candidates rail against it at public meetings. The Conservatives never miss a chance to tweet about it.

 

And you think that Labour should be back in power?

3 hours ago, James105 said:

So you don't know then or made it up?  It was a genuine question as from what I can see people are losing their minds over a £2bn tax cut for the wealthy, whilst ignoring the tax cuts and giveaways that benefit everyone such as the 1p tax cut on basic rate and the £200bn giveaway for energy bills.    

The greater one's income, the greater the saving

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/income-tax-rate-explained-what-cut-top-rate-bands-means-who-benefit-mini-budget-1874312

 

To be fair to Truss she stated that this (non) budget was not meant to be redistributive. 

 

The acid test will be whether the perceived benefits of this initiative do materialise and it is too early to tell. However, the initial by-products of the measures have been almost entirely negative.